WAG Annoying Comments/Perceptions about Olivia Dunne (and gymnastics in general!)

[josie55]

Who else is bugged sometimes at how most of the general population is ill-informed about gymnastics and what it means to be "good"?

The other day a dad I know with no connection to gymnastics brought up Livvy Dunne (fascinating how many people know about her!) He made a comment along the lines of "the crazy thing is, she's not even THAT good!" I responded that the narrative is simply not true. She's competing on one of the top NCAA teams, and is absolutely legit as a gymnast. He responded "well she's not going to the olympics or anything." Argh! Why is it that in gymnastics, people define being "that good" as being one of the TOP FIVE GYMNASTS EVERY FOUR YEARS? Does any other sport have this high of a bar?

What if other sports only allowed five people to be considered "good"? It would be like if a baseball player made it onto a major league team, but was not MVP at the World Series, so was deemed "not actually that good."

I do love when the general public talks about gymnastics, but wish we could change the narrative a bit and increase people's "gymnastics IQ." Up next is all sorts of random people talking about how they hope Simone Biles doesn't "let down the team again" when they have absolutely no idea how the mental game of gymnastics works.

Okay, rant over!

 

[JBS]

Does any other sport have this high of a bar?

Yes... just turn on the radio and listen to any sports talk radio. Fans pretty much complain about every player and coach and ref / judge in every sport. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. If people are talking... then at least they know the name and the sport.

 

[Coach Kate]

While I think successful level 10s and especially those recruited by those top tier D 1 programs are all talented and have worked very hard, Dunne has dealt with some injuries, but has also just not been in a ton of lineups, including failing to make the line up for nationals. Whether that's because she had some injury or just wasn't top 6, we don't really know. I think it's fair to say that she isn't making or breaking LSU's team right now. I also think we all know she is not making money because she's a great athlete, she's successful in what she does because she invested time into her social media platforms and found her groove. I'm personally not super thrilled about the whole rise of social media "stars" but she's figured out a way to work the system, so good for her. Hopefully she can invest wisely and set herself up well for the future!

I also do think other sports have a similar standard. And honestly I think it's fair - some athletes are actually better than others, it's how it works. Jonathan Owens (Simone's husband) plays in the NFL but no one really knows him as a football player because he really isn't one of the best. Patrick Mahomes is a better quarterback than Geno Smith. It's just a fact. Olivia Dunne isn't as good of a gymnast as many of the others in NCAA or elite. She's better than most people, but truly not one of the very best.

 

[gym_dad32608]

While I think successful level 10s and especially those recruited by those top tier D 1 programs are all talented and have worked very hard, Dunne has dealt with some injuries, but has also just not been in a ton of lineups, including failing to make the line up for nationals. Whether that's because she had some injury or just wasn't top 6, we don't really know. I think it's fair to say that she isn't making or breaking LSU's team right now. I also think we all know she is not making money because she's a great athlete, she's successful in what she does because she invested time into her social media platforms and found her groove. I'm personally not super thrilled about the whole rise of social media "stars" but she's figured out a way to work the system, so good for her. Hopefully she can invest wisely and set herself up well for the future!

I also do think other sports have a similar standard. And honestly I think it's fair - some athletes are actually better than others, it's how it works. Jonathan Owens (Simone's husband) plays in the NFL but no one really knows him as a football player because he really isn't one of the best. Patrick Mahomes is a better quarterback than Geno Smith. It's just a fact. Olivia Dunne isn't as good of a gymnast as many of the others in NCAA or elite. She's better than most people, but truly not one of the very best.

You pretty much nailed it from my point of view.

Remember, people have different perspectives on how they look at things. To the non-gymnastic follower, the hype of LD doesn't match the athletic performance. Yes, she is on a P5 team, but she rarely sees line-up nor has any athletic lore (10's, made the score to win SEC, Natty, etc) to her name. Only folks that are very close to the sport are going to realize she was an elite national team member, and what type of accomplishment it is to be on a top 5 D1 squad. When the general public thinks about college athletes and if they are "good" they consider athletic accomplishments, Heismans, titles, etc. In that context, LD is not very good.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I am in full agreement that the public's association between gymnastics and the olympics is a constant source of irritation. And this is not unique to gymnastics, but I do think in many ways it's worse in gymnastics.

Sports culture in general would serve us all better if there was more focus on casual amateur sports and less on top-level competition.

It's play. It's games. It's exercise. Celebrate it as such!

 

[cmg]

I agree with the josie55. No LD is not an Olympic candidate, but she is still one of the top gymnasts in the country. She has had injuries and with a team as good as LSU that is going to put her out of the line up. I don't like that D1 athletics has basically become a professional sports program. And I hate it that all parents or anybody can think about is the athletic scholarships. My daughter is going to a D3 school with an academic scholarship and as we were setting up the table for her signing party a parent asked, "Did she get an athletic scholarship?" When I explained that she was going to a D3 school so did not get an athletic scholarship but did get a very generous academic scholarship he basically didn't care anymore to talk to me. It was like it didn't matter and her achievements didn't mean anything. (Obviously as her mom that pissed me off but also as a commentary in general that you are only good if you get an athletic scholarship that also pissed me off.) I think this country's obsession with D1 athletic scholarships is doing a huge disservice to our country's youth. When you think about the actual shot of getting one of those scholarships in any sport and the pressure to get one it is crazy. I am glad my daughter is going to a D3 school where the balance between sport and academics is manageable.

Now I am not a big fan of all the attention LD is getting on social media just because she is a pretty blonde, but that is another societal issue. But I do respect her as a gymnast. She is taking advantage of her celebrity status and who can blame her.

 

[Lurker]

OD's bigoted social media comments are what annoy me.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

OD's bigoted social media comments are what annoy me.

I don't disagree, BUT that's a separate discussion, and I'm willing to bet if we spin off into a discussion of those comments I'll end up needing to lock the thread.

Let's save that discussion for another day.

 

[Lurker]

Then directly related to the topic, people in general don't understand or care about sports accomplishments. Just look at the vile comments about Megan Rapinoe's retirement from soccer. And tangentially allot of those comments relate to my initial one .

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Then directly related to the topic, people in general don't understand or care about sports accomplishments. Just look at the vile comments about Megan Rapinoe's retirement from soccer. And tangentially allot of those comments relate to my initial one .

Again, I'm with you. But if the thread diverts to discussion of bigotry on social media and athletes' political/philosophical/religious views, there is a 100% chance of the thread devolving into a poopshow at rapid pace.

So let's not.

 

[Lurker]

Again, I'm with you. But if the thread diverts to discussion of bigotry on social media and athletes' political/philosophical/religious views, there is a 100% chance of the thread devolving into a poopshow at rapid pace.

So let's not.

But Poop shows are entertaining! Anyway the point I am trying to make is if a female athlete that by the time she will retire will have over 200 caps for her country, pretty decent stats for goals and assists and still gets dismissed and disparaged because let's say "things". What do you really expect for a social media star that also used to and maybe still does sports for a college?

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

I have a question about the new Livvy fund. Who will benefit from it and it what way? Am I correct in thinking it is to help other LSU female athletes market themselves on social media?

 

[Coach Kate]

I have a question about the new Livvy fund. Who will benefit from it and it what way? Am I correct in thinking it is to help other LSU female athletes market themselves on social media?

It is definitely for LSU female athletes, and to help them with NIL deals. I am not sure if this directly translates to social media marketing or if it means something else. My husband says he thinks she has a bright future in running people's social media accounts/teaching them how. I actually had an acquaintance who did that for awhile, so I know it's a thing.

 

[AnotherGymDad]

Like it or not, gymnastics is only a truly "mainstream" sport in most of the world once every four years. So the general level of expertise and understanding is never going to be that great among people who are not directly involved in it. I guess the guy mentioned in the original post had an Olympic-centric view of what constitutes success and half-remembered reading something about the cultural phenomena of LD that mentioned she'd achieved all this fame despite not being the absolute best gymnast in terms of scores and so on. Which then translated into "not that good".

More widely, I think this points to a bigger issue of people not really understanding just how good even mediocre professional athletes are compared to the rest of us, never mind the amazing GOAT types. Look at that poll a couple of years ago that said one in eight British men thought they could take a point off Serena Williams. That's one in eight of the general male population, from 18 to 100 years old, not even just those who play tennis... And they're all completely deluded!

The problem is that we only ever see the very, very best competing alongside the very, very best , which makes us very poor judges of ability and makes it harder to recognise that what they're doing is exceptional. When Serena, at her peak, dropped a game or two against some unseeded qualifier, she was still playing against a full-time professional athlete who had dedicated her life to her game from an early age and would comfortably thrash nearly every casual weekend player in the world. Even the slowest swimmer in the Olympic pool is going to finish the race considerably quicker than 99.999% of the people watching would ever be able to manage, yet we dismiss them as "not very good" because they trailed in last.

It's a particular problem for sports that only capture the world's attention every four years - that's why I've always liked the idea of having a normal, untrained human attempting Olympic sports alongside the actual athletes so you can fully grasp how difficult the job is! - but it affects all activities.

As I was telling my son the other day, there was a kid I went to school with who was the best football (soccer) player anyone had ever seen, miles ahead of everyone else in skill and fitness and raw talent, scoring for fun in every game he played. But even he could only ever manage one trial with an unheralded semi-pro team before dropping out of the sport altogether. He looked incredible alongside mere mortals like me but was nowhere near the standard of even those at the bottom of the pile of those who "succeed". In England that means there were at least 50,000 people better than him, but I'm sure he'd still happily call someone "rubbish" if they had a bad game at the World Cup.

Apologies for the very long post! I guess what I'm trying to say is that amazing athletes make the extraordinary look straightforward to an extent where we take it for granted. And so to stand out you have to be even more than amazing, you have to be the very best in the world, the greatest of the great - otherwise you look, in the words of Ms Dunne's critic, "not even that good".

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Yes... just turn on the radio and listen to any sports talk radio. Fans pretty much complain about every player and coach and ref / judge in every sport. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. If people are talking... then at least they know the name and the sport.

This. There are people who still say Derek Jeter wasn’t all that great

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Regarding gymnastics I find the opposite.
With people asking since my daughter was little asking if she is going to the Olympics and going to college for gym as if it’s easy because she does some flippy things. Ummm no. Not that easy.

Personally I think any kid who gets to optional and can run at a stationary object and flip a vault. Flip on a 4 inch beam 4 ft off the ground and flip around a bar and let go. They are all rock stars.

 

[AnotherGymDad]

Regarding gymnastics I find the opposite.
With people asking since my daughter was little asking if she is going to the Olympics and going to college for gym as if it’s easy because she does some flippy things. Ummm no. Not that easy.

I'd argue that's just the other side of the same coin - lack of understanding and exposure leading to an inability to judge what's exceptional.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I'd argue that's just the other side of the same coin - lack of understanding and exposure leading to an inability to judge what's exceptional.

Yes I said the opposite