WAG Main purpose for xcel?

[skschlag]

Well then we will agree to disagree.

It was absolutely about revenue. Kids who want to compete but don't want to put in the hours, who would otherwise quit... Revenue.
Kids who used to compete IGC, now meet funds go to USAG, Revenue.
Parents who pay money and want to see Sally or Joey win a medal for their bucks. Revenue.
More kids in the gym because JO too much, rec to little, Revenue.

Its for profit. They didn't do it just to be nice.

I thikn I see it more as a way for kids to love this sport to continue to participate. You might think revenue, but honestly, with another team, they have more coaches, more kids who need gym time, and more fees to pay for meets. I think that they would be close to a wash.

But, to see those older girls who walk into a gym at 10 and just want to do gymnastics have a place where they can compete, have fun, and make progress is amazing. I have seen it at our gym. It gives them a place to do what they love without being put in groups with 6-7 year olds (which is the main reason they quit)

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Then maybe they should have lower JO optionals in the spring instead of having JO kids compete against Xcel kids. I still see most level 4 girls at a higher level than Xcel gold and again that means Xcel really isn't for less skilled gymnasts who still want to compete but would never place on a JO team. The Xcel girls try hard and want to win too but when competing against girls who just finished their JO season it is hard.
I wish it was at least by calendar year or something where a girl who could do both could choose one per year not JO winter and Xcel spring. One state and one regional not both.

There are no lower JO optionals, only compulsories.

Beyond a state meet you can do both at the same time. You could do a Xcel meet one weekend, JO the next (although that is not usually done).

You are still going to have disparity in skills, training time etc...

You have Xcel kids training 4 hours a week and Xcel kids training 15 hours a week.

You still have kids competing at a lower level then they probably should.

Our gym puts our L3 in Silver, L4 in gold. L 5/6 in diamond. Our Level 9 was platinum. At regionals there were plenty of girls in Silver who were darn close to L5 if not technically level 5 in JO. I was only at the silver session, those high level nearly 5s won.

And until the rules are changed/clarified. You can do both. And until they clarify the disparity, it will continue.

 

[gymgal]

No, that was never the intent. But until USAG does something to stop it, and I'm not sure how they really would, it's going to get used this way in place.

The original intent was far different than what usag has turned it into. Xcel was born out of several local and regional pre-op programs that emerged many years ago to address 'holes' in the jo system. In the beginning, most programs only had 1 or 2 levels. they were meant as bridges toward optionals. For girls not quite ready to compete 7 but not wanting to do another year in compulsory, and to give girls a taste for optional competition while still competing L5 or 6. They would compete compulsory in the fall and prep-op in the spring. Within a few years, most programs increased the number of levels available and some areas saw this as an opportunity to use prep-op as an alternative to compulsury where as others turned it into a different, less intense path of competition. Up until usag renamed and nationalized Xcel a few years ago, the prep-op programs (state and regionally run) were described on the usag site as alternative competetion path as well as additional competition oppportunities for compulsory gymnasts wishing to experience optional routines. This is why it is used so differently in certain parts of the country. The 2013 level changes, with the additional of optional 6 was usag's way of trying to rectify the mixing of jo and prep-op. However, there are some areas that continue to use xcel as a substitute for compulsory because they have done so for many years and feel it is best for their gymnasts particularly in terms of longevity. (years in the sport, not necessarily the level they will eventually attain)

 

[Deleted member 18037]

But, to see those older girls who walk into a gym at 10 and just want to do gymnastics have a place where they can compete, have fun, and make progress is amazing. I have seen it at our gym. It gives them a place to so waht they love without being put in groups with 6-7 year olds (which is the main reason they quit)

And that is awesome and they wouldn't be there if there was no option, and their parentsl wouldn't be paying. And we are back to revenue.

Because they could go to an IGC gym and do the same thing but then the revenue goes to IGC, not USAG.

 

[skschlag]

And that is awesome and they wouldn't be there if there was no option, and their parentsl wouldn't be paying. And we are back to revenue.

Because they could go to an IGC gym and do the same thing but then the revenue goes to IGC, not USAG.

I kind of feel that this is a cynical viewpoint. I don't typically see things as conspiracies, and I don't thing USAG is making millions off xcel. Gyms typically don't get rich off of meet fees as most go to pay for medals and judges. Gyms are still having to pay coaches more or hire more coaches to coach the xcel girls, so they are not making a ton of money off xcel. Rec is where the money is. And what do we pay to USAG? $54/yr?

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I kind of feel that this is a cynical viewpoint. I don't typically see things as conspiracies, and I don't thing USAG is making millions off xcel. Gyms typically don't get rich off of meet fees as most go to pay for medals and judges. Gyms are still having to pay coaches more or hire more coaches to coach the xcel girls, so they are not making a ton of money off xcel. Rec is where the money is. And what do we pay to USAG? $54/yr?

Those medals come from where? USAG not IGC.

54 dollars times XXXXX.

All the USAG swag that goes flying off the shelf and into the kids drawers? In fact I have to put in my order for my USAG State Tee's by the end of the week. And as they flyer says don't forget to order for mom, dad, grandma, grandpa and aunts and uncles, at 24 dollars a pop (without the bling because that is extra)
Meet money, folks do meets for free? They expect to take a loss on meets? Umm I think not.

Our gym switched from IGC to Xcel once it became an option. Those dollars are now going to USAG sponsored events not IGC.

Really this is a for profit business, its about revenue. If there is an upside that is totally awesome. Do folks get satisfaction from watching kids suceed, why yes they do and they expect to be paid and make a profit. And if there was no profit, it wouldn't go on.

 

[skschlag]

Medals are ordered from different places. Our gym gets them from a local trophie company.

meet fees cover:
paying judges, facilities, scoring system, insurance, medals, ribbons, trophies, any meet "gifts" that are given out etc. They make a little, but not a lot. And I have put on meets, they are sometimes more trouble than they are worth. I guess if you put on a big invitational that is one thing, but typical meets are not making a ton of money. ours makes enough to cover the meet costs, pay the coaches, and maybe a tad left over, but it barely covers the loss of classs time that day.

I agree there is profit. I would never argue that. But I don't think that xcel was created for the sole purpose of increasing profit. I think it was created to allow more to stay in gymnastics. It gives kids a choice, and allows them to participate longer. You should hear the number of MAG parents taht wish there was an option like that for boys too. But there are not enough boys to do 2 tracks.

 

[momof2gymmies]

Our gym puts our L3 in Silver, L4 in gold. L 5/6 in diamond. Our Level 9 was platinum. At regionals there were plenty of girls in Silver who were darn close to L5 if not technically level 5 in JO. I was only at the silver session, those high level nearly 5s won.

And until the rules are changed/clarified. You can do both. And until they clarify the disparity, it will continue.

I think this is a huge problem with xcel. You see such a huge difference in skills. At our gym, when JO kids move to xcel, the L3 (some have competed 2 years and by our gym are then considered too old for JO) move to bronze, the L4 and L5 move to silver, L6 moves to gold. L7 to platinum. The two L9s I know who have moved have gone to diamond. These are kids who have already competed those levels, not kids who are training them.

Our xcel girls pay more per hour than JO. Rec pays more per hour than Xcel.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Medals are ordered from different places. Our gym gets them from a local trophie I think it was created to allow more to stay in gymnastics. It gives kids a choice, and allows them to participate longer.

You do understand that more kids staying gymnastics means more money. That's revenue all around. Its a partnership, its not just about USAG revenue though they get their cut. More meets, mean more judges get paid.

Again, my kid has medals with the USAG logo, as well as tee shirts, sweatshirts. I am pretty sure USAG gets a cut, no matter the vendor.

I think it is great more kids get to do gymnastics.
I think it is great more gyms perhaps stay in business or make more.

Yet I am nearly 100 percent certain, when the idea of Xcel came up, no one said heck we are going to take a loss but lets keep the kids happy.

Its about revenue.

 

[GymnastJoy]

This is just me and my moral compass, but I would not have my JO dd finish her season and them compete Xcel. She had her chance to compete JO against her like peers and place (or not). I'd be embarrassed to then bring her to an Xcel meet and take away medals from girls who this is their actual season. As a JO gymnast, my dd trains more hours, more intense conditioning, and is comfortable competing as she would have just finished her season as opposed to it being a year ago for Xcel. Certainly there are girls who do this in our state as there are no USAG rules prohibiting it, but it looked down on. Yes, these girls can claim being Xcel state champions but it is an empty victory. It's like a level 5 winning level 3 states. In this area, gyms who compete both "because there is no rule against it" do not attract top coaches or gymnasts, JO or Xcel.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

It's like a level 5 winning level 3 states. .

Only if they are not leveled appropriately.

I believe Mass had over 900 girls at their state meet in silver to qualify for regionals (only top seven go). And lots of those girls train just as hard or harder then my gyms JO/Xcel girls.

Even if it was Xcel girls only you will have girls doing 2-4 hours competing against girls doing 12-16 hours. And yes those 12-16 hour girls will be beating the 4 hour kids.

 

[twinmomma]

You do understand that more kids staying gymnastics means more money. That's revenue all around. Its a partnership, its not just about USAG revenue though they get their cut. More meets, mean more judges get paid.

Again, my kid has medals with the USAG logo, as well as tee shirts, sweatshirts. I am pretty sure USAG gets a cut, no matter the vendor.

I think it is great more kids get to do gymnastics.
I think it is great more gyms perhaps stay in business or make more.

Yet I am nearly 100 percent certain, when the idea of Xcel came up, no one said heck we are going to take a loss but lets keep the kids happy.

Its about revenue.

Oh for crying out loud. If you want to go that route, ALL sports are about revenue. My son's little league jersey says "Little League" on it and his bat says "little league approved". His team bought trophies, though those aren't branded, so I guess only the trophy company benefits, unless of course they sponsor a team, which then benefits the league. ONLY my daughter's state and regional medals are branded USAG, and so what? If you don't want to feed USAG money, don't compete.

If you're cynical enough you can find a monetary motivation in everything anyone does. Or you could look at it as there are a lot of kids who want to do gymnastics but there hasn't traditionally been a competitive route for kids who can't afford either the TIME or the money to compete JO. Do people make money off of it, sure. But I have a hard time believing that's the PRIMARY motivation. Again, I did the math. Rec students pay on average $10 more PER TRAINING HOUR than team kids, just at my daughter's level. Tell me again how the medals and meets and such, with the insane overhead of the insurance and equipment and printing, etc... is all about making money.

 

[raenndrops]

I think this is a huge problem with xcel. You see such a huge difference in skills. At our gym, when JO kids move to xcel, the L3 (some have competed 2 years and by our gym are then considered too old for JO) move to bronze, the L4 and L5 move to silver, L6 moves to gold. L7 to platinum. The two L9s I know who have moved have gone to diamond. These are kids who have already competed those levels, not kids who are training them.

Our xcel girls pay more per hour than JO. Rec pays more per hour than Xcel.

It doesn't make sense to move L4 and L5 to Silver because the vault is a step backwards.
It is also against what USAG says:

L4/L5 should be Gold or Platinum!

 

[momof2gymmies]

It doesn't make sense to move L4 and L5 to Silver because the vault is a step backwards.
It is also against what USAG says:
View attachment 5694
L4/L5 should be Gold or Platinum!

I know vault is a step backwards. But, I also know that our gym had 5 kids move from JO to xcel this year. The two L3s went to bronze, the L5 went to silver, L6 went to gold and L7 went to platinum. Our gym also requires max levels - DD as a silver is competing L5 skills. Personally I despise the silver vault, as does DD. She does the fhs vault so much better, and can not wait till she moves to gold and can compete that.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

It doesn't make sense to move L4 and L5 to Silver because the vault is a step backwards.
It is also against what USAG says:
View attachment 5694
L4/L5 should be Gold or Platinum!

Again our gym levels them appropriately, not all gyms do.

Much like the gym that holds a kid back to score 39.

They are guidelines not rules and minimums are age and score out scores.

There are no hours of training min/max. Nor are there time to move one scores.

 

[raenndrops]

I know vault is a step backwards. But, I also know that our gym had 5 kids move from JO to xcel this year. The two L3s went to bronze, the L5 went to silver, L6 went to gold and L7 went to platinum. Our gym also requires max levels - DD as a silver is competing L5 skills. Personally I despise the silver vault, as does DD. She does the fhs vault so much better, and can not wait till she moves to gold and can compete that.

They are violating USAG Rules and Policies by doing that. Somebody should point that out to them. USAG specifically put the entry requirements from JO to Xcel so coaches wouldn't do that.. and so they would know acceptable Xcel divisions for their gymnasts.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

Our gym's XCEL program is a great program for a lot of kids. It is designed for:

Kids who want to do more than rec, but were unable to achieve JO level Level 4 proficiency after 2-3 years of preteam.
Kids whose parents are not able to make the financial or time commitment to the JO program, or kids who have difficulty handling the hours and intensity of the JO preteam program, or want to do a variety of activities.
Kids who have been doing the JO program, and have either stalled in advancement or want a smaller time commitment. Kids are not forced onto XCEL from JO, but a few have chosen that route.

The stated goal of the program for those who start in the Bronze level and work their way up is to create happy confident gymnasts ready to compete for their High School Gymnastics teams. It appears to do a very good job of it, as many of them enjoy quite a bit of HS success. We have some gymnasts in that high school age range that move over from JO because they decide that HS gymnastics is for them.

The goal of the JO Program is to create Level 10 gymnasts who would like a shot at college gymnastics, who make Regionals and JO Nationals. Of course not everyone ends up in Level 10, but that is the ultimate goal.

Xcel is not used to fast track. Extraordinarily talented gymnasts are allowed to do more than one level a year in JO, with some just testing out. Most really talented do Level4 and test out out of 5 and go to 7. All of last years 4s are testing out of 5 and going to 6, with maybe one or 2 going to 7.

It is my belief that the spirit and purpose of Xcel is violated when teams put their JO gymnasts into Xcel meets with the intention of them doing JO the next season. Just because they can doesn't mean they should. Level 6 in JO is designed to let kids get to optionals a little faster if 7 is too much of a leap, and express themselves and have their own routines. They don't need Xcel to do that.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

My son's little league jersey says "Little League" on it and his bat says "little league approved".

Yes Little League is a huge money maker

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...series-williamsport-pa-steve-keener/14404095/

That's not cynical, that is just reality.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...3/Events-and-Attractions/Gymnastics-tour.aspx

 

[skschlag]

ok...true. but that isn't xcel.....