WAG Main purpose for xcel?

[Deleted member 18037]

^^^^yes

To add same with JO hours would love to see max hours by level.

Because a kids doing 20 hours vs kids say doing 10, same situation.

Of course what you do during those hours matter. Along with what you do in your "off" hours.

 

[cbifoja]

The discrepancies of JO hours doesn't bother me because JO isn't marketed to be .... and please understand I mean ZERO disrespect by this...."light" gymnastics. Xcel is designed to give kids who don't want to or cannot train a lot of hours the chance to still be able to compete. That is its stated purpose. The JO program is there for kids who want more....be it lots of hours in the gym, the chance to compete in college, the chance to switch over to the Elite path. It's different.

Obviously different gyms practice different hours and different gymnasts can succeed with different hours. We will never eliminate the individual advantages that some gymnasts have over others. Nor should we. But I think the two paths should serve different populations and coaches/clubs/owners should respect that.

 

[twinmomma]

From USAG's Xcel subsite:

"The Xcel Program is designed to offer a broad-based, affordable competitive experience outside the traditional Jr. Olympic Program to attract and retain a diverse group of athletes."

Outside the traditional Jr. Olympic Program. VERY clear. NOT JO. Not a substitute for or to facilitate movement to higher level JO. Different. Separate. I don't know how much clearer it could be.

Additionally, if you read the most recent Xcel committee meeting minutes, Region 4 indicates concerns with JO kids competing in Xcel, Region 1 reports concerns with "mobility". It's bubbling up to the top that this is starting to be an issue.

As for max hours at the JO level, I agree there should be guidance but my issues are more tied to the ages of the kids. It's not healthy for an 8 year old growing kid to be working out 25 hours a week. I don't care if she's the next Gabby Douglas. At some point, isn't the health of our kids more important than the potential to be on a Wheaties box?

 

[Deleted member 18037]

"

From USAG's Xcel subsite:
Additionally, if you read the most recent Xcel committee meeting minutes, Region 4 indicates concerns with JO kids competing in Xcel, Region 1 reports concerns with "mobility". It's bubbling up to the top that this is starting to be an issue.

Yes. I think there will be more actual rules regarding this down the road. And as it should be.

As for max hours at the JO level, I agree there should be guidance but my issues are more tied to the ages of the kids. It's not healthy for an 8 year old growing kid to be working out 25 hours a week. I don't care if she's the next Gabby Douglas. At some point, isn't the health of our kids more important than the potential to be on a Wheaties box?

200 Percent this.

8 yr old kids, no matter how much they profess to love something need to kids, to have free play, to have other experiences (And yes there is the exception who deals well) Not just gym. And if you sub, "But my kid just loves playing computer games for that many hours" Most adults would gasp.

Have a girl at our gym. She does more hours then required and Mom takes her for privates elsewhere. Dad not so thrilled with the hours for his 8 yo. Mom professes "but daughter loves it".

Oddly though when I over hear the kid talking to other kids, who are talking about what they are doing on their off days. Said "Love it" child says; "Oh I have to be here tomorrow." Hmmm who really want the kid in the gym? Mom? Or the kid?

Max limits would help that.

 

[MILgymFAM]

[QUOTE="Deleted member 18037, post: 405864, member:

Oddly though when I over hear the kid talking to other kids, who are talking about what they are doing on their off days. Said "Love it" child says; "Oh I have to be here tomorrow." Hmmm who really want the kid in the gym? Mom? Or the kid?

Max limits would help that.[/QUOTE]

It could just be how the child phrases it also. My DD is 13, so older, but when someone asked her why she wasn't going to be at her 8th grade graduation her response was that she "had to be at practice." Who told her she had to be at gym? She did. She has a pact with herself regarding her level of commitment to things. Same thing goes with other, more important commitments. When a teammate asked her the other day why she wouldn't be at team camp, her response was "I have to be at sports medicine camp those weeks." It's just a simple expression of commitment. Kind of like when I get asked to social engagements and say we can't afford it right now. It's not usually literal, but more an expression that I chose that other things are more important to spend money on.

Not saying the girl in your story loves/hates her schedule- I have no clue. Just saying her statement isn't necessarily an insight.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

[QUOTE="Deleted member 18037, post: 405864, member:]
Not saying the girl in your story loves/hates her schedule- I have no clue. Just saying her statement isn't necessarily an insight.

Correct the statement alone isn't an insight. But knowing the Mom, Dad, child and interacting with them for 2 yrs.

I am fairly confident how she meant it.

 

[Along4theRide]

I'm still learning about all of this stuff...so forgive me if I don't understand. If a gymnast is getting high quality training and shows great poise and skill, why does it matter which track she chooses? I understand the rule for scoring out of 4 and 5 as a way to ensure that key skills are mastered before moving to JO Optionals....but why, as one poster said, would competing a whole season at 4 be a requirement for any good gymnast? I believe there could be different paths for each gymnast. JMHO

(As for the other issue, I can attest that the gyms that compete both JO and Xcel in the same season are good...but those girls are not always at the top of the podium. It's not a guaranteed clean sweep. At least in my region. But competing both programs is a whole different issue.)

So my question is... Is it possible for Xcel to be considered a "different path" instead of a "lower path"?

 

[skschlag]

So my question is... Is it possible for Xcel to be considered a "different path" instead of a "lower path"?

Yes..and several gyms use it that way. But, you still have to score out of 4 and 5, unless you are older and you can petition into level7 (I think you have to be 14).

 

[Deleted member 18037]

So my question is... Is it possible for Xcel to be considered a "different path" instead of a "lower path"?

It was designed to be a lower path.

And at some gyms it is. Others not.

I can only speak to my gym. To our coaches/owners. Gymnastics is gymnastics. A front tuck and/or ROBHS and so on, be it in Xcel or JO should be done well. We do both. Some girls only JO, some only Xcel, most both.

No matter which track you compete you train the same. You condition the same. Based on your level.

Again, I think its kind of sad a crazy that a kid is too old for JO at 6 or 7, or can't do JO if they are not willing to do crazy hours, according to some gyms.

Again, my kid wouldn't be at the level she is at, at a gym that mandated more hours or every Sat.
But she is a really strong gymmie.

 

[skschlag]

It was designed to be a lower path.

And at some gyms it is. Others not.

I can only speak to my gym. To our coaches/owners. Gymnastics is gymnastics. A front tuck and/or ROBHS and so on, be it in Xcel or JO should be done well. We do both. Some girls only JO, some only Xcel, most both.

No matter which track you compete you train the same. You condition the same. Based on your level.

Again, I think its kind of sad a crazy that a kid is too old for JO at 6 or 7, or can't do JO if they are not willing to do crazy hours, according to some gyms.

Again, my kid wouldn't be at the level she is at, at a gym that mandated more hours or every Sat.
But she is a really strong gymmie.

Just curious, and I nkow it is off topic (kind of, this thread is all over the place!)

Does your gym have a lot of upper level gymnasts??? I jsut can't imagine doing the upper levels (8-10) successfully without higher hours.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

K

Just curious, and I nkow it is off topic (kind of, this thread is all over the place!)

Does your gym have a lot of upper level gymnasts??? I jsut can't imagine doing the upper levels (8-10) successfully without higher hours.

We currently have a level 9, a couple of 8s.

We have 10s in the past and have gone to nationals. Can't speak to their hours. And Div 1- Div 3 gymnasts.

Again our gym has a minimum hour requirement. You can do more.

Our L9 who is only in middle school, so I imagine she can make at least 10 does more hours then may daughter but she is older.

My daughter did 7.5 hours as a L3, spent most of her time at the top of the podium. Now I get it is only level 3. Other girls did more, none more than 12, well except the one kid.

At Level 4 she will do 9, other might do 12.

Our upper levels do between 15-20. And again our kids condition out of the gym. Some of the upper level girls do crossfit as well.

But no I just don't think you need to do a ton of hours at L3, L4 or even L5,

And yes as you go up levels of course the hours should go up.

 

[cbifoja]

It was designed to be a lower path.

I don't think that is accurate. It was designed to be a DIFFERENT path. Not worse or better....just to meet the needs of a different kind of gymnast.

Again, my kid wouldn't be at the level she is at, at a gym that mandated more hours or every Sat.
But she is a really strong gymmie.

And this is why there is a market for Xcel. My DD is not a good candidate for Xcel. Until she hit about 18 hours a week, it was always "more more more". She is very ambitious and has certain goals that align well with JO. Her norm is to be in the gym every Saturday morning and she chooses to do this. She has decided that gymnastics is everything for her. Your DD needs fewer hours, needs to have some Saturdays to do other things. That isn't wrong or less or lower. It's just what your DD wants.

 

[skschlag]

OK. I agree with you on the hours, but some of the stuff you were saying made me think that maybe your upper levels didn't do many hours, days. Our level 8-10 girls do 5 days a week for a total of about 17-20 hours. Our level 3s do 6 hours and do great. So your gym is kind of right there with ours. And I see ours kind of similar to a lot of other ones. I think our level 5s do 9 with the option of 12.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Your DD needs fewer hours, needs to have some Saturdays to do other things. That isn't wrong or less or lower. It's just what your DD wants.

I get it isn't wrong or lower.
But my daughter is a successful JO gymmie,

Where at other gyms it would of been Oh, can't do Saturdays (that's Chinese school) and 4 days a week oh JO is perhaps not for her. And yes we were told this. I have to say I am not a big gloater, but I do love that my girl at her 3 day a week, no Saturdays, 7.5 hours, beat that gym, 4 times last year and soundly. In this case I'm good with being a bit bratty.

Again, Xcel is sold as a less strenuous path at many many places.

And even that varies. Oh our JO girls need to go 20 hours, but Xcel only 12 or 15.

Our gym treats it all the same, you do the minimum.
But if you are doing a skill they expect you to train to do it well , no matter what the hours, level or JO, Xcel. A FHS, they expect it to get clean JO or Xcel.

And actually they will bend the rules on min if the kid is keeping up with her level and has extentuating circumstances. We had a kid who is a really strong L4, could only afford 6 hours a week, that is what she did. She did well. Clearly it is unlikely she will be able to much higher at 6 hours but they will let her go as far as she can.

 

[cbifoja]

Maybe I missed the answer to this question (there are so many Xcel threads right now that it's hard to keep current), but given that your DD is such a successful JO gymnast, why do Xcel at all?

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Maybe I missed the answer to this question (there are so many Xcel threads right now that it's hard to keep current), but given that your DD is such a successful JO gymnast, why do Xcel at all?

Our coaches like compulsories for foundation, but they like that they can express themselves with optional routines, especially floor in Xcel. It lets them explore their artistic side as a gymnast at a younger age. And really doing your own floor is more fun then compulsories. Even the Bronze girls get their own music and routine.

 

[cbifoja]

So if your DD makes it to JO optionals, will she stop competing Xcel at that point? Do you think she will be open to training more hours to be a successful optional or do you think that she will take the path with fewer hours and compete just Xcel?

Not trying to be nosy, we just don't have clubs here that compete both. It's seems very weird to me.

 

[skschlag]

So if your DD makes it to JO optionals, will she stop competing Xcel at that point? Do you think she will be open to training more hours to be a successful optional or do you think that she will take the path with fewer hours and compete just Xcel?

Not trying to be nosy, we just don't have clubs here that compete both. It's seems very weird to me.

Yeah, here, you do one or the other. You might move from one to the other, but not compete both. That would mean competing from September-June every year! :0

 

[gymgal]

I don't think compulsories will ever go away as training devices for gymnasts hoping to reach the top levels of the sport. I wish some JO programs did not have ridiculous age limits for starting girls in the program, but the compulsory levels serve an important purpose. I very much doubt that the most competitive gyms training kids with the intent of moving them toward elite or college gym will skip out on compulsories, though it seems to me that more of them are jumping into the XCel game.

Compulsory routines are part of the elite track for young gymnasts on both the girls' and boys' side.

I remember a thread a while back discussing this, where the US is the only major country that still employs compulsory routines at the lower levels. The other countries are set up more like L7/8 where there is a defined skill set for each level but the routines are individualized to the gymnasts. I said it several years ago and I still believe it that eventually USAG will eventually move toward that design and away from the set routines we see in our present compulsory levels of 1-5.

 

[cbifoja]

Our coaches like compulsories for foundation, but they like that they can express themselves with optional routines, especially floor in Xcel. It lets them explore their artistic side as a gymnast at a younger age. And really doing your own floor is more fun then compulsories. Even the Bronze girls get their own music and routine.

Before we introduced Xcel this season, I think our gym treated optionals more like a privilege to be earned. You had to put in your time in the "trenches" before earning the "honor" of having your own routines. It's a big rite of passage to go up to optionals in our gym. LOL

Or at least it WAS. This might change now that we are re-introducing Xcel into our program for the older girls. And Xcel is definitely being marketed toward those girls in the "woo hoo you get your own routines" way. But those girls aren't going to be competing JO at all.