Level 8 or Level 9

[GymDad57]

My DD competed last season Level 8 with a Dbl Back dismount on bars and Back Tuck on beam, she does not have her min 2 bar changes for Level 9 yet, but basically has everything else. Her options or to stay at Level 8 and give up her Dbl Back & Back Tuck (not allowed this year) or compete Level 9 missing Sp Req #2 (min two bar changes-reduced start value). I guess my question is; how common is it for Level 9's to compete knowing they are missing a special requirement (-.5). Is this a bad choice? Will the judges be scratching their head, thinking "where are her requirements"?

 

[JudyS125]

Can someone please clarify this issue for me: is a back tuck on the beam allowed at level 8. My dd is also a returning level 8. I know she can't do the double back, but we have been told that she can continue to do her back tuck on the beam--but it will count only as a B. She has her first official meet this weekend. They had a judge come in to see their routines, who didn't say anything about it. Now I am concerned she is going to void her routine this weekend. Does anyone know for sure?

 

[BarCoach]

We have two girls in similar situations at my gym and I'll tell you about them both. The first girl, Olivia, competed level 8 last year, but didn't do well at regionals. She has everything she needs to do level 9 except on floor. So far this year she has competed two meets level 8, leaving out her double flyaway and aerial on beam, so that she can qualify for states. If she can get her level 9 skills on floor she will be allowed to compete a few meets level 9 and if she does well, she'll do 9 at states and regionals.

The other girl, Jackie, competed level 8 last year and has all her skills to do 9 on all events. But she has been injured for the last couple months, and is not allowed to do any splits of any kind including leaps, jumps, and straddle jumps. She competed level 9 at the last meet without her leaps, so floor and beam started from a 9.5. She got a 8.85 on floor and a 7.95 on beam with a fall. She qualified for states.

How close is your daughter to getting the special requirement she is missing? I think she should do level 8 to qualify, but then work hard at getting what she's missing and just compete 9 without it. Then if she doesn't have it by the time states rolls around, she can do 8 so she has the opportunity to go on to regionals.

 

[CoachTodd]

Level 8 Difficulty Restrictions
Allowable: A & B elements plus C dance
BB/FX + specific C elements on UB*
No other C, D or E elements

This means the back tuck on beam which is a C is not allowed nor is the Double Back off of bars since it is also a C.
A clear hip to handstand and the cast handstand 1/2 turn are the only 2 bar C's I can think of ,other than the bar changes, that are allowed. I think overshoot handstand and straddle back handstand are ok too.

 

[gympanda]

We see kids all the time that are missing Special Requirements. I judged a meet a few weeks ago where I would say 25% of the Level 9s didn't have two bar changes...granted it was the beginning of the season. But, it is not uncommon to see kids missing one SR if the rest of their events are strong.

Back tucks on beam at Level 8 will result in a .5 deduction for an unallowable element.

 

[kristilyn73]

My DD is in the same boat as yours. She is missing her high to low bar change. She is going to compete L8 again this year, if she gets her shootover during the year she will move during the season.

Is that an option in your gym?

 

[gymdog]

Because she is young, I would put her in L8. This age group is very competitive at the regional level in my region (this may vary though) and so presents a lot of competitive opportunity while stressing basics, and I'm not a fan of the C restriction but what can you do - they can still compete some L9 things like good BHS series on beam (into a dismount for upgrade), front layout series on floor, yurchenko vault entry.

But it depends on what she's comfortable with. For some kids the loss in SV and the struggle to score well enough without the SR can be pretty demoralizing. For others it doesn't phase them much. However with a younger kid who is working on a JO/NCAA path, I would probably stick with another year at L8, with the reasoning above that it's actually very competitive and there are a lot of kids at that age/level doing the same.

 

[gymkat]

A bail (overshoot) handstand is a D, and a straddle back handstand is a C. Neither is allowed in L8.

If your daughter only has one bar change, then does she have either 2 releases or a release and a pirouette? If she only has a pirouette, that would be an additional missing SR. It's pretty normal to see L9s with an 8.7 SV on bars for the first few meets, though.

 

[JudyS125]

they can still compete some L9 things like good BHS series on beam (into a dismount for upgrade), front layout series on floor, yurchenko vault entry.

I thought they couldn't do a yurchenko entry.

 

[AnitaV]

If that is the only thing she is missing ...would go for level 9 if she can live with the low bar scores for a season and then she would likely repeat level 9..chances are she'll get the release during the season anyway...on the other hand if doing really well at meets is important to her, getting to states, regionals, etc. then agree on another level 8 season..If the coaches are OK with either, should be primarily her decision in the end since she's the one competing...

 

[gymkat]

Yurchenkos have been allowed in L8 for several years.

 

[socko]

But I didn't think they were this year..

 

[gymkat]

Yurchenkos are allowed in L8 this year and have been allowed for several years, as I have posted multiple times.

 

[Granny Smith]

Wow, it sounds like quite a few of us have gymmies in the same situation. My dd competed L8 last yr and is doing it again this yr (so far.) She did have to take her BT out of her beam routine, but coach have still made her routine challenging and she has competed 2 meets thus far this yr and has fallen on beam both times, luckily it didn't really matter. She does a BHS-BHS series, coach now has her working both BHS stepout-BHS stepout and then she also is working BHS stepout-BHS 2 foot. She does switch leap/split jump/2 footed BHS, she can do BT, but can't when she competes. She also does a FHS in her routine and has competed a RO-layout dismount, but does also do RO-half. Many 9s don't do the acro skills she does now.

For floor 2 of her current 8 passes would be bonus in 9. She competes FHS-FLO-FT, also does FP or FLO instead of FT. She also does half-punch front. The only thing she is missing is her C skill on floor, which has been her block for over a yr now, but she is finally twisting. She is working FHS-front full. She was up to back 1.5, but took a fall and now once again, she really isn't doing a full (but we're getting there!)

Bars, she does practice 9 routines which includes her shootover right into hecht to HB and she does have double back dismount. She is currently working clearhip into shootover and also clear hips into her hecht. She also can do front giants, but not is a routine yet. In 8 you CAN do a shootover, but it better not start or end in a HS (then it is a B skill). Same with a straddle back, if it doesn't end in a HS it is only a B. I watch several girls do them at the Christmas on the Chesapeake meet. But if your child is close to HS, then I wouldn't chance it.

Her vault is a pike Yurchenko (10.0 SV), which she did compete this past weekend and also her previous meet, so you can do Yurchenkos at 8. You don't see too many, but they can be done.

So the $64,000 is why is she doing 8 again. I question it many times myself. I would love for her to do 9 because she is in 8th grade and I would like her to have as many shots at 10 as possible. I know she would 100% do 9 a second yr even if she went to 9 this yr. My big thing is as long as she trains 9 in practice I am totally ok with her competing 8 this yr. I see something this yr in her at competitions that I did not see her first yr at 8. She has confidence and she is relaxed. She smiles at competitions and realizes it's ok if she falls. She took 2 falls on beam at her first meet and still finished 1st AA. She took a fall at her meet this past weekend and still walked away with 2nd AA, just .15 behind 1st. She ended up competing her floor routine with out music because the cord became unplugged this past weekend too. She continued through the entire routine and took 1st place on floor, without music. She had the biggest smile on her face when she was performing, she was practically laughing through it! (See my avatar, that was her during her floor routine without music, it's hard to tell, but she does have a huge grin on her face!) This would not have been my child last year, she would of been deer in headlights.

There's more to it than the number and with each meet she is going to this season, I am learning that. She will get her chance at 9, but with each passing day I hope it isn't until next yr and when she does 9, the girl will be ready to kick butt and take names! This is what I want for her. I love the person she is becoming this yr and I think it will help her when she does transition to 9.

Sorry I babbled so much.... I totally understand where you are though!

 

[Granny Smith]

I also just want to add that she would not be giving up her DB or BT as long as she trains them still. She should do them far more times in practice than anywhere else. If anything she would not do them at most 10 times or the number of competitions that she goes too. The key is what she trains. My dd trains 9 and then about a week before competitions she goes back and does 8 routines.

The girls do not have to give up anything...

My DD competed last season Level 8 with a Dbl Back dismount on bars and Back Tuck on beam, she does not have her min 2 bar changes for Level 9 yet, but basically has everything else. Her options or to stay at Level 8 and give up her Dbl Back & Back Tuck (not allowed this year) or compete Level 9 missing Sp Req #2 (min two bar changes-reduced start value). I guess my question is; how common is it for Level 9's to compete knowing they are missing a special requirement (-.5). Is this a bad choice? Will the judges be scratching their head, thinking "where are her requirements"?

 

[gymkat]

Many 9s don't do the acro skills she does now.

Well, I don't think I'd go THAT far. The only skill in your DD's routine that you don't see often at L9 is the FHS, and IMO, that's mostly because it's easier to connect leaps, jumps, and BTs for bonus. 4/5 L9s at my gym can do a FHS, but none of us plan to compete it. All of us do at least BHS BHS, all of us end with at least a 1/1 dismount, and I think I'm the only one who might not compete a BT.

For floor 2 of her current 8 passes would be bonus in 9. She competes FHS-FLO-FT, also does FP or FLO instead of FT. She also does half-punch front.

Just wanted to clarify for others: back 1/2 punch front (tuck) is not bonus; neither is FLO FT. You'd have to punch a FP or FLO out of both of those, like you mentioned.


Anyway, my gym moved up a few girls who would have repeated L8 before the rule changes. They have all of the requirements, so they'll probably at least make regionals. From what I've heard from other judges, I expect to see a lot of L8.5s attempting to do L9 in my state.

 

[Granny Smith]

Well, I guess when I wrote this I crossed the line, thanks for the clarifications...

Well, I don't think I'd go THAT far. The only skill in your DD's routine that you don't see often at L9 is the FHS, and IMO, that's mostly because it's easier to connect leaps, jumps, and BTs for bonus. 4/5 L9s at my gym can do a FHS, but none of us plan to compete it. All of us do at least BHS BHS, all of us end with at least a 1/1 dismount, and I think I'm the only one who might not compete a BT.



Just wanted to clarify for others: back 1/2 punch front (tuck) is not bonus; neither is FLO FT. You'd have to punch a FP or FLO out of both of those, like you mentioned.


Anyway, my gym moved up a few girls who would have repeated L8 before the rule changes. They have all of the requirements, so they'll probably at least make regionals. From what I've heard from other judges, I expect to see a lot of L8.5s attempting to do L9 in my state.

 

[gymdog]

So the $64,000 is why is she doing 8 again. I question it many times myself. I would love for her to do 9 because she is in 8th grade and I would like her to have as many shots at 10 as possible.

This is still very young...likely one of the reasons they didn't push her up...I would be very surprised if an 8th grade second year 8 didn't have a shot to make it to L10. To me that is more than enough time. I realize some gyms have lots of younger girls but many L10s were in your daughter's place. It is just not average to do one year of L8, not after one year of 7. I know a girl who did L10 and NCAA who did four years of L8. Made regionals from the first year on. Now, we've had this rule change, so all this might adjust, but right now I don't think most people will adjust behavior. Especially with kids not yet in high school, I still don't think most gyms and coaches are necessarily trying to move them out of 8 really fast. There can be a lot of injuries and scary falls on bars trying to push for some of the release skills, especially out of handstand now.

 

[hunde2]

I wished my daughter would have repeated Level 8 again.Her Level 9 season was very stressful last year,not only for her but us parents too.
Bars was the event she definitely was not ready on.Just not her strenght.
Although she did alright at the end of the season she had many falls at meets.
I'm glad she is repeating Level 9 again and hope her bars will be a little stronger.
I also think she will be a lot stronger mentally too.
Although she does repeat Level 9 again she will have tons of upgrades.
That hopefully will make the transition to Level 10 easier.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

My DD competed last season Level 8 with a Dbl Back dismount on bars and Back Tuck on beam, she does not have her min 2 bar changes for Level 9 yet, but basically has everything else. Her options or to stay at Level 8 and give up her Dbl Back & Back Tuck (not allowed this year) or compete Level 9 missing Sp Req #2 (min two bar changes-reduced start value). I guess my question is; how common is it for Level 9's to compete knowing they are missing a special requirement (-.5). Is this a bad choice? Will the judges be scratching their head, thinking "where are her requirements"?

geesh...are you the same dad from that blind change thread? it's not your place to strategize. that would be the coach's job. and if the coach doesn't know, find a new coach so you stop thinking so much.

and who cares what the judges are thinking? that's not their job either.

and the rest of you...this is gymnastics. it's the hardest sport your children will ever do. so, stop obsessing over the above posts, when ostensibly these issues are there for the remainder of their careers. it's a process. and it NEVER gets easier as they get older. only HARDER. and at level 10 nationals...not every single gymnast has a 10.0 start value. so stop talking about what they need and what their start values are. it's a waste of bytes.