Parents am I crazy?...need advice quick from parents/ coaches..

[mayestra12]

My dd is consistently telling me that her coach ranks her and her teammates during practice. For example, he will line them up for floor routines in the order that they score (or thinks they will score).

Am I crazy to think this is a ridiculous practice and that it would do nothing to encourage my dd to improve?

Is this some kind of coaching technique that I am not aware of? I really want to scream right now! No wonder my already anxious child hasn't been getting to the gym without tears this past week....

 

[Quadqueen]

hmmm....how often is this done? My DD's coaches occasionally will have them do routines and she ranks them AFTER, based on their performance. I think she does it as a motivational technique. I think this is different though.

 

[J&A's mom]

How old is she? I think another reason coaches will do this is that it makes it more like competition. So when they really are in competition, they already have the feeling of being in it. My sons coaches do this as well.

 

[MeetDirector]

Very common when dd was a compulsory. Not common as an optional as they all have thier own workout.

 

[vagymmomma]

Very common when dd was a compulsory. Not common as an optional as they all have thier own workout.

DD's coaches also did it when she was doing compulsory. They used to compete in the same order (based on expected scores).

 

[mayestra12]

Really? Can you guys explain why? All this seems to do is make my dd feel like crap and that she is not any good.

 

[sglemon]

I don't know why they would line them up in practice, but during a meet, the girls are usually lined up a couple different ways. Our gym would line them up by strength on a apparatus, with the stronger going last. I never understood, but judges, seem to score easier (or should I say they get more relaxed), as a competition goes on. When you are fighting for team scores, it benefits the team for the girls with the highest scoring potential to go last. Other times, they line them up based on their score on a previous apparatus, the higher scored girl going last. The judges see their previous score, when scoring, maybe there is a psychological benefit to that?

But, I do notice at state meets, at least in our state, all those rules don't apply. I think the order is randomly selected.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Yes, coaches do this a lot. Coaches should be careful because in this day and age a parent may just sue them for damaged self esteem these days.

For many kids this type of coaching does motivate them. They want to get better and move up past teammates so when their coach ranks the, they push themselves harder, coaches may do this in the quest to discover which are the toughest most driven girls and preen them up for elite gymnastics.

of course for a large number of kids it also has the opposite effect, but in many gyms coaches want to pick and choose kids who have the do anything to win attitude. So they may feel its worth sacrificing the other gymnasts to get through to these gymnasts.

a tad out of date type of thinking, but a lot of gymnastics is based on out of date thinking.

 

[Flossyduck]

Not quite the same, but they do judge the girls routines and run little competitions in my daughters group, during most of their training sessions. They also get the other girls to say which ones they thought were best and if they spotted anything which needs working on.
It's all done in a very supportive way though. The girls get really fired up when they 'win' and there are a couple of areas which my daughter never does as well in and a couple where one particular girl always wins, and it does make my daughter want to do better and try and be 'just like ****' - in a nice way!

A lot will depend on how it's done I guess. They don't line them up in that order (they always line up by height), not sure that would feel very nice...

 

[mayestra12]

Thanks for the replies. I'm fairly certain there aren't any future elites on my dd's team. We don't even have any girls above level 7 in our gym. I guess I understand the motivational aspect. I know last year my dd's coach put her last on every event to see if she could handle waiting around and watching everyone before her. She always told him she never wanted to be last. She handled it well and got the highest beam score on her team that day. Maybe this is just one those things.

 

[shelovestoflip]

Even though as parents it might make us crazy, the girls, even at a young age, know which girl on their team is 'really good'. So while 'ranking' them might not be the 'best' way to do it, they really know that little Suzie has the best back handspring and little Jane needs to point her toes more. My daughter often came home when she was younger commenting on what so and so could/could not do. She wasn't mad/sad etc...just factual.

Also, at the compulsory levels, I know that the coaches tended to put the girls who were 'less skilled' on a particular event first and the 'better scoring' girls last. The girls knew this, good or bad. It never really bothered my daughter, who always went first or second on bars and typically toward the end on other events.

Now at the optional levels, this seems to happen less. And at States, they follow the order given by the meet host.

 

[Gymmommy71]

Sounds kinda like "the pyramid" from that show Dance Moms to me...;(. I'm sure there are some kids who are motivated by that type of thing...my daughter is NOT that type. Some children are just more talented at certain types of skills and/or have been doing gymnastics longer, so I don't think it makes much sense to compare like that (unless you have a set of identical twins who both started gymnastics on the exact same day ). Also, the replies about how the meet order is often determined by who the coaches think will score the best going last now have me thinking back to her old meets and analyzing things ...I will also pay closer attention to the performance order this coming meet season.

 

[mayestra12]

Last season they didn't save the best for last sort of speak at meets. One of the top scorers went first every event almost every meet. I just figured it was because she was older and could handle starting off.

And yes, my dd certainly knows who the best girls are and for the most part considers (or wants to consider) herself in the top 1/2 of her team. I think it's just hurtful to her to think that maybe her coach doesn't think she's worthy. She also deals with an anxiety disorder (diagnosed) so she has trouble dealing with the negative emotions of this kind of thing and moving on. In fact, her psychologist asked me if she was being coached in a competitive environment and I said no. Need to re-think that answer....

I talked with her about it today and explained that maybe this was her coach's way of telling her she's not working up to her ability. I explained that he does it to motivate her. She wasn't getting the message at first but I think she understands it a bit more know. Deep down she loves her coach and knows he's not mean.

Thinking about all this now I can see why she is a certain concerning school.....that's another story.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Yes, coaches do this a lot. Coaches should be careful because in this day and age a parent may just sue them for damaged self esteem these days.

For many kids this type of coaching does motivate them. They want to get better and move up past teammates so when their coach ranks the, they push themselves harder, coaches may do this in the quest to discover which are the toughest most driven girls and preen them up for elite gymnastics.

of course for a large number of kids it also has the opposite effect, but in many gyms coaches want to pick and choose kids who have the do anything to win attitude. So they may feel its worth sacrificing the other gymnasts to get through to these gymnasts.

a tad out of date type of thinking, but a lot of gymnastics is based on out of date thinking.

you nailed this right on the sorry head of the coach. lol.

 

[LizzieLac]

Yes, our coaches give them "scores" at practice. They don't line them up per se, but after each girl does her vault for example or beam routine, the coach would give a score. They also however give them a little of the "why" or what needs to be corrected, so it is also instructional. It is a competitive sport, so in my mind doing this exercise is no different than what happens in a meet (at least how it is conducted at our gym).

I do think this helps and is important - the girls can see what a good vault looks like from the coaches perspective. How many times have you gone to a meet and seen a gymmie do what looked like a perfectly good routine and score an 8.0?? At the lower levels and even into level 7, the coaches don't want them so focused on scores, but rather their development. And, we often feel like we have no idea why a judged scored a certain way. So, this little exercise in the gym helps the kids understand what the coach is looking for.

As for the lineup at meets, my understanding is that they put the weaker girls in the middle. Strong in position one (and maybe two) and then the weaker girls, with strong closing it out. It has something to do with how the judges score when they see a fairly lengthy rotation and the judges, I believe come to expect this in the lineup, so they "naturally" score the first and last couple of girls better. Seems a little funky to me, but it is what it is.

 

[Galadriel]

same as lizzy in training.
esp. pre competition .
but no ranking.

 

[mayestra12]

I have no issues when they are scored in practice. My dd does mock meets all the time. She knows her scores and that of her teammates. No problems. This became an issue as her coach lined them up in practice prior to any type of scoring. Perhaps if he said, "hey girls, I'm going to put you in order by the score I gave you last week" or something to that effect it would have made sense to my dd. She just doesn't think her coach believes in her. Thank you for helping me understand why this is done. I'll try to help her "toughen up" a bit. Still not a fan of having them ranked in practice all the time but it is what it is.

 

[J&A's mom]

I wanted to share what happened after practice today with you. My son's coaches do the mini competitions with his team and then rank them based how they did. My son came out of practice with tons of energy. He was very excited that he came in second on vault. But he was WAYYYY more excited about who beat him! It was the youngest on the team and pretty much doesn't win anything because the team is very strong. My heart sung with pride because he was soooooo proud of his friend and teammate for doing so well! Team spirit!!!

 

[BlairBob]

I would give my gymnasts mock scores but not rank them. Asking for hate there and future problems from gymnasts or parents.

Now, if I was in a program where it didn't matter that I had to keep team quotas up and retention...well, I probably wouldn't but I'd understand the reasoning behind it.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

At our local competitions the girls are in a drawn order and this cannot be changed unless there is a good reason. It has made me relax about 'line ups' as a coach (they really don't make a difference). It is also good to see your nervous gymnasts who you would never put first up on beam be placed first and rock it. I let the girls decide their order in training, at first they argued about order but now they are very diplomatic in making sure everyone goes early/last/in the middle. Closer to the comp we practice the competition line up, which makes the competition day run very smoothly as I can coach and not spend time organising who is next.