cast to handstand

[gymnastixfreakxo]

I'm in level 8 and STILL dont have my cast handstand ...i am really trying to get it, and the only help i've gotten from my coach is to lock my elbows, and tighten up in my stomach area. I have someone at my gym thats going to help me a little, but i have yet to see him and get advice...does anybody know what i can do? i am attempting a straight body cast instead of straddle. this is making me ver frustrated! advice please??

 

[gymnastbeth]

For the record, straddle casts are a lot easier.

One thing that I've always found that helps to cast to handstand is leaning my shoulders over the bar, and thinking about almost falling onto my back on the other side of the bar. When I was learning them, we did drills where they actually did stack up mats on one side of the bar, and we would cast as high as we could, but lean our shoulders over the bar so that we fell onto the mats.

 

[wordsmith]

Well, if you're not being spotted on them by your coach, then other than the effort of actually trying them, the best thing I think you can do for yourself is to work on your strength. Planche strength is really what I recommend you develop if you want a legs together, straight body cast. Work on leaning in your casts; work on leaning in your push-up hollow shape holds- probably preferable with your hands on a bar. Try doing that also with your feet elevated on a block or against a wall at varying heights; also feet on a ball or roller and lean forward as much as you can, to the brink before collapsing to your face.

Also, hold planches on the single rail without your feet on anything (starting out with knees tucked into your chest...as you get stronger, bring the legs further out and the shoulder lean further forward). Each week, build up how long you can hold it for, as well as trying to increase the difficulty by moving the legs out. It may take a while, but be diligent.

Planching down from a handstand as slowly as you can to work the eccentric phase.

I like this video a lot if you haven't seen it:

YouTube - Casting and Cast Handstands

Hope some of this helps, and good luck!

 

[gymnastixfreakxo]

i just feel that straddle casts are strange cause of getting the timing...but i guess i should realy start thinking bout them...and when ever i try leaning my shoulders over the bar, i just end up collapsing and my shoulders come to the bar, almost like a shoulder stand i guess?? but i guess i can try these and see what happens

 

[gymnastbeth]

i just feel that straddle casts are strange cause of getting the timing...but i guess i should realy start thinking bout them...and when ever i try leaning my shoulders over the bar, i just end up collapsing and my shoulders come to the bar, almost like a shoulder stand i guess?? but i guess i can try these and see what happens

Sounds like you need to improve your strength.

 

[gymnastixfreakxo]

why thank you for pointing out an obvious statement haha i'm working on it....gunna start making push ups an everday thing i just think i should've done this sooner since i dont have much time to gain all of this strength...one would think i should have it by now :/ ugh

 

[gymnastixfreakxo]

thank you for the video...i may try some of the stuff shown...maybe it'll help

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

why thank you for pointing out an obvious statement haha i'm working on it....gunna start making push ups an everday thing i just think i should've done this sooner since i dont have much time to gain all of this strength...one would think i should have it by now :/ ugh

Push-ups alone won't do much for you. They'll help you get your arms straight, but they won't help you cast higher.

The best thing for that would probably be press handstands and related skills; not just straddle presses, but also pike presses, and if you can get somebody to spot you on them, straight-body presses.

Another good one is pseudo planche push-ups. Get in a push-up position, but with your shoulders planched forward so your hands are by your belly, rather than with your chest/shoulders. Keeping your body straight (there is a common tendency to pike while doing this), do push-ups while in this planched position.

 

[gymnastixfreakxo]

ok i'll think about it...and those would make sense to help with the cast....which is definitely what i need...but willl the push ups definitely help me with the strengthening part? cause part of my problem is not having enough arm strength to hold my body up..i think thats why my elbows are giving out half way through

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

ok i'll think about it...and those would make sense to help with the cast....which is definitely what i need...but willl the push ups definitely help me with the strengthening part? cause part of my problem is not having enough arm strength to hold my body up..i think thats why my elbows are giving out half way through

Casts involve multiple movements hapening at the same time -- all of which require strength. You have to push the arms straight WHILE opening the shoulders WHILE keeping your body straight and tight. If you lack the specific strength to do any one of these things, your cast will collapse. It's not just simple arm strength. It's arms, shoulders, back, abs, even legs (to stay tight). Push-ups address only a small subset of the strength required for casts.

 

[meinlee]

Unless you plan on pressing or planging or muscling yourself up to a handstand like the girl in the video wordsmith told you to watch does, then muscling is something you want to stay away from on bars. Muriel Grossfeld in the 50's may have benefited from strength conditioning for the moves and holds that existed back then. But these days if you plan on using strength to accomplish bar routines then I doubt you will get past half a bar routine without getting fatigued. Where I work elite coaches understand that if you are going to get through a bar routine then every move has to be effortless and weightless. Having to use strength to muscle bar moves is just bad science.

If you want to get to a handstand from a cast then lean forward over the bar and throw your legs up so fast and so hard that you fly up without any hint of muscle in the equation. Land in the handstand weightless and get ready for the next flight move. Period.

Bars is about speed, timing, balance, direction, position, flight, power, etc.
Work on power and speed foremost. Power to cast like a rocket. Speed to cast like a rocket. Power and speed to kip like a weightless cloud. Power and speed to do bars.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Unless you plan on pressing or planging or muscling yourself up to a handstand like the girl in the video wordsmith told you to watch does, then muscling is something you want to stay away from on bars. Muriel Grossfeld in the 50's may have benefited from strength conditioning for the moves and holds that existed back then. But these days if you plan on using strength to accomplish bar routines then I doubt you will get past half a bar routine without getting fatigued. Where I work elite coaches understand that if you are going to get through a bar routine then every move has to be effortless and weightless. Having to use strength to muscle bar moves is just bad science.

If you want to get to a handstand from a cast then lean forward over the bar and throw your legs up so fast and so hard that you fly up without any hint of muscle in the equation. Land in the handstand weightless and get ready for the next flight move. Period.

Bars is about speed, timing, balance, direction, position, flight, power, etc.
Work on power and speed foremost. Power to cast like a rocket. Speed to cast like a rocket. Power and speed to kip like a weightless cloud. Power and speed to do bars.

Without a hint of muscle in the equation? Where are "speed and power" supposed to come from, then?

I get what you're saying: that the better your timing and the more precise your technique, the less strength is required, and if the skills are properly done, they create the illusion of weightlessness, effortlessness, like no muscle is required. However, even when the skills are done correctly, many of them require a significant amount of strength to generate the speed in the first place.

Quite simply, any movement requires muscles. Faster and more powerful movement requires stronger muscles, especially when done against a resisting force (such as, in the case of casts, gravity).

 

[bogwoppit]

Meinlee said...

"If you want to get to a handstand from a cast then lean forward over the bar and throw your legs up so fast and so hard that you fly up without any hint of muscle in the equation. Land in the handstand weightless and get ready for the next flight move. Period."


Wow that sounds like a bit of a Stetch to me!!! How exactly does that work?

 

[wordsmith]

I get what meinlee is trying to say. But as Geoffrey alludes to, it takes muscle-strength to generate the power that will make the cast handstand look and become effortless.

Certainly drive the heels fast and hard in a tight arch that hollows out (yes, I'm in agreement with GT over the cast handstand debate). But unless you have adequate strength, good luck with the speed, timing, rhythm, balance.

It's like the kip. If you lack strength, you better have perfect timing. If you have strength, along with the timing, it will look effortless- not like you're "muscling it".

And since it's likely you'll be performing cast handstand out of a kip, remember to kip holding the feet in front so you can then release the heels into the cast.

gymnastixfreak's problems seemed more about a lack of sufficient strength than technical execution, to me.

 

[meinlee]

Thank you so much for those insights regarding flight verses brute strength. Its like still rings. You can showcase your strength and/or you can fly like an eagle. Either way, you have to be strong to hold your wings out and even more if you fly against the wind.

 

[bogwoppit]

Thank you so much for those insights regarding flight verses brute strength. Its like still rings. You can showcase your strength and/or you can fly like an eagle. Either way, you have to be strong to hold your wings out and even more if you fly against the wind.

I still say that's a bit of a Stretch, can you explain yourself further?

 

[meinlee]

Obviously I'm not talking about the strength you need to develop power and speed so you don't have to use brute strength. I'm opposed to muscling bar routines and coaches that drill and teach gymnasts to do it. Please accept this explanation for what it is and what it says. Thanks bogwoppit.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

to simplify, the girl questioning is a bit older. regardless, most athletes begin the cast handstand by doing what's referred to by all coaches [elite coaches are just coaches also] as "ugly ups".

kids have to have a reference point in order to learn this primary, yet very important, skill. sometimes the reference is not perfect form. they must learn how to 'get there' first and the finer points of the movement pattern worked on after.

routine construction and the physical ability to train multiple skills in a row and then subsequent routines come from years of brute strength training. it is bars. brute strength comes from all those years of proper conditioning including ugly ups.

everyone is right, but the athlete must start from somewhere.

 

[bogwoppit]

I love the description "elite coaches". don't you.

I agree that, like the kip, getting the skill is the first step on the ladder to perfecting the skill. Ugly seems to be a stage in many newly aquired skills!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

and it's planche or planche-ing. it's french so there really is no 'ing'.