Changes to the WAG program.

[ruby&jack]

Gymnastics Australia are NOT getting rid of state stream because there is no state steam in Gymnastics Australia.

The State Stream is something that each state puts together themselves if they choose. It actually has nothing to do with the NDP program. Here in QLD we don't have a state stream, all athletes just compete NDP or IDP and it is not a problem. Most lower level competitions have a separate division for gymnasts who compete lesser hours. Also different types of gymnasts (competitive and less competitive) gravitate towards differentntypes of competitions.

But as there will be no competition at the lower level, there really isn't a need for a separate stream.

The idea with this system is to get kids through the system faster. The tradition in Australia is to do a year at every level from level 1. So while in the US lots of kids are hitting level 4 by age 7, in Australia the majority of level 4's are 10-11.

Under the new system they are expecting the talented kids or the gyms that train higher hours will accelerate their kids at a faster rate. This will mean more kids will make level 10.

If they are moving girls through at a faster rate, where will it leave them once at level 10 and being so young? There won't be anywhere for them to go..

 

[Aussie_coach]

The proposal is that after level 10 there will be another level - open level which will be competing FIG requirements.

Kids could spend many years at this level learning new skills and competing at a higher standard. They could also realistically go onto compete at an international level in some cases. But most people won't hit this standard.

Remember that this is still all up in the air and until the new program is officially announced there will still be changes being made.

Once the program is changed it won't be set in stone. Gymnastics Australia does not mind changing things if unforeseen problems arise. It will be a process.

I had not heard that IDP was going. In fact I would suspect that part of the plan is to push the talented kids out of NDP and into IDP. Because one of the biggest problem we have with developing elites is that many of the top kids who should be training for international are not. But perhaps they are, it is al speculation at this point.

Also I suspect they will be encouraging kids who reach the top levels to move into coaching. As under the new coaching system you can become an accredited coach now at age 14.

 

[ruby&jack]

Gymnastics Australia are NOT getting rid of state stream because there is no state steam in Gymnastics Australia.

The State Stream is something that each state puts together themselves if they choose. It actually has nothing to do with the NDP program. Here in QLD we don't have a state stream, all athletes just compete NDP or IDP and it is not a problem. Most lower level competitions have a separate division for gymnasts who compete lesser hours. Also different types of gymnasts (competitive and less competitive) gravitate towards differentntypes of competitions.

But as there will be no competition at the lower level, there really isn't a need for a separate stream.

The idea with this system is to get kids through the system faster. The tradition in Australia is to do a year at every level from level 1. So while in the US lots of kids are hitting level 4 by age 7, in Australia the majority of level 4's are 10-11.

Under the new system they are expecting the talented kids or the gyms that train higher hours will accelerate their kids at a faster rate. This will mean more kids will make level 10.

How do you think this will affect the current NDP girls? My DD who is NDP2 and trains for 7 hours a week, will she suddenly be put with girls who were previously in State Stream? Will training hours be cut, if the overall expectations are lower for each level? I'm confused, and slightly worried my DD won't be challenged anymore..

 

[_coachbrooke_]

State stream normally only comes into play after level 3 so until then I don't see that she would be put into groups with state stream gymnasts.
And I would say that if she was to find a level too easy then her coach would just have her LAT/skip that level and have her train/compete a level with the right amount of challenge? Well that's what I would do anyway : )

 

[OzZee]

Sorry Aussie coach I meant gymnastics nsw not gymnastics australia and then couldn't edit my post.

ruby&jack, coaches should be assessing all the girls and putting them at the level that is right for them under the new system and requirements (whenever they are finalised). So if for instance level 3 is the same as it is now and your dd is ready for it, kids that have come out of prep 2 and don't have the skills for national 3 wouldn't be put in that level (if that makes sense). It won't be about what number a child has competed but their skills.

It's going to be more challenging for states like WA that have a very different state/club program than for instance NSW where state stream is based on ndp, if they abolish ss. Also, as the clubs are pointing out, a major loss of revenue as a lot of the kids in state stream won't want to try to be competitive in ndp.

Though some of the skills they are showing at the 1-3 workshops will be rather challenging so can't see how it's all going to be easier suddenly.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I don't think any kids will have their hours cut or will be put into a lower level. As OzZee says coaches will asses each gymnast to ensure they are in the appropriate level for their ability. I suspect level 1-3 will remain non compulsory so if need be a child would skip straight to level 4.

A good coach will include the skills in the levels system as only a part of the gymnasts training. Their whole skill set should not be based on what is in the system but on what they are ready to do. They should be working above and behind the skills they are competing.

 

[Faolmor]

Does anyone know what skills will be required for levels 1, 2 and 3? Are they roughly the same as now, or will there also be new skills? Very interesting - especially with a DD only just about start development training

 

[sally]

Well years ago there was no idp and people use to change across at a older age. I don't think that is a bad thing as kids develop at different rates. With this way they could get the best of both if they make the program suited for a easy transition

 

[ruby&jack]

Well years ago there was no idp and people use to change across at a older age. I don't think that is a bad thing as kids develop at different rates. With this way they could get the best of both if they make the program suited for a easy transition

I'm not sure that there will be any changes to IDP.. just NDP. I could be wrong, but haven't heard anything about changes to IDP

 

[wsg13]

I think this change will be good in some aspects. But some just unfair. Coming from a country club I am a state 10 but due to limited people training I train with everyone level5+. This means our training is very expensive ($10 an hour.) I will be competing against girls training 20+ hours where that is just not achievable in my gym. I think they should split it into levels then age or numbers of hours trained to make it more fair.

 

[ruby&jack]

So would the new levels be more 'open age'? Kids compete at the skill level they are at no matter what age they are??

 

[OzZee]

ruby&jack, they are open age now.
You compete the level you have the skills for and don't have to be a certain age for NDP.
Awards are grouped by age.
So for ndp in nsw
level 1 - junior is 6-7, intermediate 8-9, senior 10+
level 2 - junior 6-8, intermediate 9-10, senior 11+
level 3 - junior 6-9 etc

Higher levels a little different and change by the year due to numbers. But by level 7 usually just junior and senior.

IDP is age based. You need to be a certain age with the right skills eg IDP 1 is 6-8, IDP 2 7-9 etc.

 

[Aussie_coach]

In QLD lower level NDP usually compete by hours not ages. The usual break down is
Level 1 novice training 2 hours or less
Level 2 novice training 4 hours or less
Level 3 novice training 6 hours or less

And then when they train more they are in the open division.

For us level 4-6 is usually broken into two age group
Level 4 under 10 and open
Level 5 under 11 and open
Level 6 under 12 and open.
States has more break downs ie level 4 has under 9, under 10, under 11, under 12 and open.
But most comps just have the two age divisions.

In most comps level 7-10 have just one division per level. But states have two age divisions for level 7 and 8.

IDP has a maximum age, usually just one division of kids up to that age.

 

[OzZee]

Got to love the differences between the states.
aussie_coach, do you compete 1-3 prep in QLD for the novice and the ndp routines for open or is it just ndp competed in two different groups? What about age groupings from there? Though guess you have less kids competing than NSW?.
Thought state stream championships today had only two age divisions (junior/senior) for level 4 and 5; one for level 6 and up, despite numbers in the lower levels.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Actually we don't compete NDP prep or the normal NDP routines in QLD.

Gymnastics QLD has just put together their own level 1-3 routines, which all our level 1-3's do. The routines are closer to the prep routines than the regular NDP levels, Everyone does the same thing.

 

[_coachbrooke_]

Victoria- I have never seen NDP results divided into age or hrs trained until level 4 when I *think* the national stream levels 4&5 are divided into hrs trained. Or you do state stream : )

As for kids age and placement in levels, my thoughts (and my club) is that as long as a kids is mentally and physically ready there is no reason to hold a kid back just because they are young! But I have heard of kids not being allowed into comp squads because they were too old (at 9 and about level 3 skill wise) which I think is sad : (

 

[_coachbrooke_]

And I only recently found out that QLD do dif routines again, I really like them, much better progression wise!

 

[mumoftwogymnasts]

Has anyone seen the skills yet? Thoughts if you have?

 

[_coachbrooke_]

I have seen a draft, some much better, some weird/interesting and got rid of some that I would have kept, but I guess this is why they send out the draft, get feedback and make changes if needed : )

 

[ruby&jack]

Where can we view the draft??