Coaching Types - Negative and Abusive vs. Tough and Supportive

[thefellowsmom]

The recent thread about the abusive coaching and some things that are happening at our gym have me wondering.

Where is the line drawn? The other post I was reading seemed very apparent that she should run from that situation. But it isn't always that clear.

Our HC is a former Eastern European country national team member and in that vein can be pretty tough sometimes. He has high expectations, pushes the girls to strive past their comfort zones and responds regularly with the hands thrown up in the air and "your killing me" look. He also has no problem recommending you try rec op if he doesn't think you are going to have success in his JO program.

But, he is also very loving with the girls and seems to have genuine relationships with them and as I have said in other posts runs a really safe, individualized program that is growing and improving every year. But, true enough, it is his program and he really doesn't want to hear what others have to say about it.

There has been some uproar lately from a couple of parents about how he speaks to their girls and makes them feel bad and one has left the gym and several more have moved to rec op. They say he makes them feel bad about their progress and like they aren't good enough.

I am new to the team and have only been interacting with the HC for about a year, but have always had good interactions with him. He is obviously building a relationship with my daughter even though she is not training with him yet. He spends time talking to her and gives her hugs. I have seen him take a minute to go over and coach her on something as well as pull her over to watch what one of the older girls is doing.

I have talked to my daughter about it and she says that yes, he is tough and sometimes he "yells", but that she doesn't think he is scary and it doesn't bother her and that she knows that he is just trying to help her become the best gymnast she can and meet her goals.

It seems like some girls are thriving and some girls aren't handling it well. I have seen the intensity and seriousness of the program slowly increase over the last couple of years and some parents and gymnasts have not been pleased with this, but if you want to grow into a great program then it seems like this is a natural progression. More conditioning, harder workouts, higher expectations etc.

Anyway, that long winded explanation was really just to ask where is the line? This is a tough sport and with most select competitive sports coaches are tough. I guess you just watch your own kid, but where is that line when even if your child is doing ok, you know the behavior isn't appropriate or healthy?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

instinct. you'll know it when you see it.

 

[flipper's fan]

I don't think there is a bright line, but more of a fading from white through gray to unacceptable. so much is about language and tone. Some girls' hearts break when the coach says "if you really wanted it you would work harder" when they think they really want it and they are working as hard as they can, but that's not abusive. "you don't want it, you don't belong here, you'll never get it"- it becomes abusive when it is a put down, an absolute, and when the intent is to make the person feel bad about themselves rather than to make them want to do better gymnastics. You're driving me crazy, you're killing me, you're turning my hair gray- not abusive because they are about things happening to me. You'll never get it, you couldn't get over that bar with a crane, why do you even bother coming here- abusive, meant to make you feel bad. In general , statements about what you do are usually more constructive, statements about what you ARE can be very devastating.

 

[kecks]

As dunno said. You know it when you see it. Especially when you did ambitioned competitive sport yourself.

 

[cher062]

Its like the difference between an abusive parent and a strict but supportive parent. It abusive if you think it is. Everyones level of what is "abusive" can vary. there is the hit you in the face no doubt about it and everyone agrees its abusive then there is the on the line not so easy to tell. If its not the way I would correct, support or what ever my child then I don't want it done to my child.

 

[Brandon]

The line is drawn by you.

That's really all there is to it.

 

[Kiwi]

We have a coach like that too, he is Russian and takes the development program girls. He is very strict and always sounds like he is shouting at the girls, but it seems that the girls all love him. I think it is because he is strict, he is tough, he is demanding, but he is never mean or nasty or demeaning. He also gives them credit when they get it right, so they get encouragement and positive feedback. The horror stories I've read here are about coaches who are trying to motivate better performance using fear or humiliation, which is the wrong way. I think flipper's fan summed it up - if it's meant to make you feel bad, then it isn't healthy.

 

[Mack_the_Ripper]

I think a coach should tell it like it is. No sugar-coating, at least not for older girls and upper levels. But that does mean recognizing improvements and hard work as well as mistakes...my coach is famous for her frankness and we all love her for it. A compliment from her really means something, because you know she's not just trying to encourage you. Sometimes she says sarcastic or mean things about our skills, but she never insults us personally and we always laugh and post it on Facebook. She also knows which kids are more sensitive and doesn't tease them as much, and she won't tease you if you're in a bad mood.

There are of course cultural factors, too, like the OP mentioned. I think the key is for the coach to recognize when it's inappropriate or unproductive to give a correction in a caustic way. But if the girls love him he must be doing something right.

 

[mamaoftwo]

As dunno said, you'll know.

I'll share my recent experience, though it may or may not be completely applicable. I wavered along the fence at my DD's (now former) gym for about 6 months. I was not watching full practices (I have a younger son along tow), but was questioning the things I saw there some. I could not decide if my DD just maybe needed to toughen up a bit, or whether it was truly abusive coaching. My DD did seem extremely sensitive.

Where I finally drew the line is when she pretty much lost all of her self-esteem. It was like a switch for her (and for me). All of a sudden, DD thought she was a "terrible gymnast" and thought she'd never get her BHS, etc. She was terrified to the point of tears for a couple of practices. I stayed and watched a couple of full practices at her insistence and was horrified. She experienced shouting, put-downs, comparisons to teammates and hair-pulling. Coach was visibly mad/frustrated when DD fell off the big beam while doing a handstand (unspotted) and injured herself (though minor), and sent her off the floor without so much as a second look. DD is only 7. After those two practices, we haven't been back.

I wasn't sure if I should put her somewhere else, but she really didn't want to quit. I was honestly a bit worried (still) that maybe a rec or prep-op program would be more her speed. After one practice (USAG) at a new gym, DD was all smiles. Coach said DD took all corrections very well and made them all. When I saw the coach make corrections (and you better believe I watched those first two practices!), DD actually nodded her head and smiled. Afterward, DD was perky and very excited about her experience. She said "The coach told me what I wasn't doing right on some things. But mom, she didn't even yell at me about it. She just told me what to fix. She was so nice!"

I still haven't "signed at the bottom line" at the new gym. I am still a little nervous myself. But if DD is still enjoying it on Tuesday (her third practice there), I will sign on the dotted line and say a little prayer.

So, not all coaches are cut out for all kids. Though I do think that what is acceptable changes some as the child gets older and to higher levels. Though many things are never acceptable. My point is that I don't think it necessarily means the kids aren't cut out for USAG. Good luck. I'd say if her self-esteem is still ok and she trusts/likes her coach, that maybe it's still ok. Though as from what I saw with my DD, that can change over time.

 

[thefellowsmom]

Thanks so much for all your thoughts and opinions. Hopefully the instincts will kick in if it ever becomes an issue.

 

[lettrich]

As dunno said, you'll know.

I'll share my recent experience, though it may or may not be completely applicable. I wavered along the fence at my DD's (now former) gym for about 6 months. I was not watching full practices (I have a younger son along tow), but was questioning the things I saw there some. I could not decide if my DD just maybe needed to toughen up a bit, or whether it was truly abusive coaching. My DD did seem extremely sensitive.

Where I finally drew the line is when she pretty much lost all of her self-esteem. It was like a switch for her (and for me). All of a sudden, DD thought she was a "terrible gymnast" and thought she'd never get her BHS, etc. She was terrified to the point of tears for a couple of practices. I stayed and watched a couple of full practices at her insistence and was horrified. She experienced shouting, put-downs, comparisons to teammates and hair-pulling. Coach was visibly mad/frustrated when DD fell off the big beam while doing a handstand (unspotted) and injured herself (though minor), and sent her off the floor without so much as a second look. DD is only 7. After those two practices, we haven't been back.

I wasn't sure if I should put her somewhere else, but she really didn't want to quit. I was honestly a bit worried (still) that maybe a rec or prep-op program would be more her speed. After one practice (USAG) at a new gym, DD was all smiles. Coach said DD took all corrections very well and made them all. When I saw the coach make corrections (and you better believe I watched those first two practices!), DD actually nodded her head and smiled. Afterward, DD was perky and very excited about her experience. She said "The coach told me what I wasn't doing right on some things. But mom, she didn't even yell at me about it. She just told me what to fix. She was so nice!"

I still haven't "signed at the bottom line" at the new gym. I am still a little nervous myself. But if DD is still enjoying it on Tuesday (her third practice there), I will sign on the dotted line and say a little prayer.

So, not all coaches are cut out for all kids. Though I do think that what is acceptable changes some as the child gets older and to higher levels. Though many things are never acceptable. My point is that I don't think it necessarily means the kids aren't cut out for USAG. Good luck. I'd say if her self-esteem is still ok and she trusts/likes her coach, that maybe it's still ok. Though as from what I saw with my DD, that can change over time.

Would you consider shouting across a gym floor " Your not trying, your mom says you are & you're not. And dont go home complaining to your mother. XXX is trying thats why she is improving & you're not" abusive? I would & that is why I am seriously considering leaving & pulling my daughter. Also she calls my daughter a nickname " Sloppy xxx" Any advice?

 

[GymBee97]

I draw my own line - if it isn't what I would do or allow done with my children then they have gone too far.

 

[bogwoppit]

Would you consider shouting across a gym floor " Your not trying, your mom says you are & you're not. And dont go home complaining to your mother. XXX is trying thats why she is improving & you're not" abusive? I would & that is why I am seriously considering leaving & pulling my daughter. Also she calls my daughter a nickname " Sloppy xxx" Any advice?

I'd be gone.

 

[txgymfan]

Negative "nick names" woiuld be a trigger for me. Saying it ones, in a joking manner would not be.

 

[lettrich]

Negative "nick names" woiuld be a trigger for me. Saying it ones, in a joking manner would not be.

Also just found out when my daughter was stretching her coach also told her " you have no muscle definition in your legs" Now I am even angrier!

 

[niklum]

I caught this thread tonight and, boy, does it apply! My DD and I came to a new gym recently and her HC quickly decided to change competition-ready Level 7 routines and her technique only weeks before season. Her technique was not lacking as she came to this gym, as she has won state and regional championships. Anyway, she's been frustrated with her regression and I haven't been fond of what I see or hear in the gym. The HC never correctly or calmly corrects technique, but yells at the girls when they fall using his techniques. I personally witnessed him yelling at another girl about her hair this week when she was stalling on a skill that scares her. One of the other girls cries every night because he leaves her at beam to finish her series and he complains that she's too peppy for him. He has started calling my DD "heelie" because she has Sever's and ices her heel when it hurts, but she generally tries to push through the pain. He told DD and me that she needs to stand out in the gym, but that she doesn't, and he implied that she's lazy and unmotivated. He also makes snide comments about my DD wanting to stay in Level 7 for the rest of her life. When we moved, our old HC was planning to push her through to Level 8 by the end of the season. I tried talking to the owner about HC, but was told that my DD has to adapt to the change. What?! I found us a new gym with a calmer atmosphere and we're making the switch this week. I've been holding off telling the HC and gym because we have a meet this weekend and I don't want him to take out his frustrations on my DD at her meet. When your child comes home and starts complaining that she thinks her coach doesn't like her, or she expresses that she feels that she's not a very good gymnast with a new coach, that's a sign that you need to make a switch - fast.