WAG Confusion about Optionals...

[cbifoja]

That will make me sad for L6. I thought L6 was a nice introductory to optionals level and I hate that some clubs will sandbag and take over the level with their could-be- L8 gymnasts. L6 was a fun level for girls to try out their new optional skills without having to have solid L7 skills. Plus wasn't the intent supposed to be to stop bleed from JO over to XCEL? I'd rather see it used like that than just as a vehicle for big successful clubs to hang yet another banner that was easily won.

 

[profmom]

I know this may be kind of crazy, but I really think people should put a lot less worry and stress into what levels their kids are competing prior to L8 or so. The level they are training is what matters. If some gyms want to use L6 to sandbag, I don't think there's a whole lot of glory in winning team banners with girls who could be competing L8. Certainly the coaches and the girls know what skills they're working on and where they should be competing. And eventually, everyone's going to catch up and be competing at 8, 9, and 10 together.

If a gym is seriously sandbagging, all they are doing is setting their girls up for disappointment and failure right around the time when they will most need the emotional resources to deal with setbacks and blocks as they get into the higher levels. What's the point in making L6 a total cakewalk if you're just going to be competing the next year against girls who've spent the year competing against stronger gymnasts at L7 and getting used to the reality that a few significant mistakes are enough to take them out of the running entirely? It's a dumb long-term strategy, IMHO, and will ultimately come around to bite in the butt those who pursue it. NO ONE CARES WHO WINS THE L6 OLYMPICS.

(Spoken as one who is also a boy's parent and has seen this happen with guys from another gym who've won states at a level more than once at the same compulsory level and then struggled as optionals.)

 

[cbifoja]

PREACH Profmom!

 

[LizzieLac]

My DD will likely compete level 6 at least for the start of the season. Our gym does hold the girls to higher standards for all levels. I believe it is how they "integrate" the concept of constant uptraining. Without it we see girls fall behind and then are behind the 8 ball when it comes time to consider level moves for the next season.

At level 6, HC wants to see BHS on beam, layout on floor, and CHS to single giant. But he is flexible - if a girl is missing one skill he will modify her routine. But the feeling is he needs to have standards. This worked well for our 6s last year - a couple of them will probably start at 7 and move to 8 midseason...because they had to giant last year, they were able to train pirouettes over the summer, for example.

My DD is ready for 7 but does not have a BWO-BHS on beam yet. Still working on it. But she has CHS--giant-giant-flyaway on pit bar and doing single giant-flyaway on even bars. She has started landing her full from tumble trak and has had a layout for months. She is also flipping her tsuk onto mat in the pit. So, some 6-8 skills there...hopefully when beam catches up she will move right to 7. We have no problem with this plan or training.

 

[GYM0M]

I think we will compete L7 for the whole season. DD has all of her L8 skills (and even up trains some L9 skills, especially on beam) EXCEPT......wait for it.......VAULT! She just got big enough for the FHS vault. She's been working timers all summer, but she's just not big enough. At L7, she's competing BHS BHS on beam, clear hip HS & giants to layout flyaway on bars, and FHS FLO or FPike, full, and layout on floor, 1.5 turn, switch split to switch straddle leap series....... But at only 45 inches tall, the vault table is scary! Lol! Our gym does put girls in at the higher end of the level, typically. Our L6 will all have BWO BHS and most likely giants.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I suspect that usag will put more skill restrictions on 6 after this season. No giants would be a good start....

 

[my4buffaloes]

As a parent I would be frustrated to pay meet fees and travel expenses for a level that is several below where my child should really be.

 

[GymnastMomX2]

I can not understand why a coach would compete a gymnast that has giants as a level 6. My DD is barely barely going to be ready for level 6 this season, her bars is way behind. (she competed 4 and scored out of 5 this summer). She could actually probably compete her routines except bars though at level 7. Anyways, she is gonna get killed compared to some of these kids, she can't even cast HS yet and only does giants with a spot on the strap bar.

 

[LizzieLac]

I suspect that usag will put more skill restrictions on 6 after this season. No giants would be a good start....

I think that just encourages doing level 5 and then going to 7. To me, making level 6 routines that are "easy" (yes, I know this is all relative) makes level 6 unnecessary. We should have left the system the way it was. It just makes no sense to me to have level 6 routines that have nothing more difficult than level 5...for my kid.

For my DD, the plan is to start at 6 and move to 7 mid-season because she is struggling on beam. Her single BHS, let alone a series, is highly inconsistent and it took her a year to even be able to do an ugly one on a high beam. But her floor is beautiful and bars are really coming along. Should her coach put her in 7 where she will be lucky to get a 7 on beam because she can't do the BHS series? Or should she "upgrade" her level 6 routines to provide a challenge. I can tell my DD would not want to win a level 6 beam event doing a CW...

There is no one size fits all on this topic.

 

[1canadiangymmom]

I can not understand why a coach would compete a gymnast that has giants as a level 6. My DD is barely barely going to be ready for level 6 this season, her bars is way behind. (she competed 4 and scored out of 5 this summer). She could actually probably compete her routines except bars though at level 7. Anyways, she is gonna get killed compared to some of these kids, she can't even cast HS yet and only does giants with a spot on the strap bar.

This is us too. She is good to go 7 on everything else, uptraining on floor for 8 even, but she is so far behind on bars right now. Not sure if she will be 6 or 7, but both has its pros and cons I guess.

 

[Quadqueen]

Hmmm....my DD did a single BHS and BWO-BWO at L7 and scored in the 9.3-9.4 range at most meets, which placed pretty well. I don't understand the BWO-BHS (which my DD will probably do in L8) or BHS-BHS in L6.

 

[happychaos]

I know this may be kind of crazy, but I really think people should put a lot less worry and stress into what levels their kids are competing prior to L8 or so. The level they are training is what matters. If some gyms want to use L6 to sandbag, I don't think there's a whole lot of glory in winning team banners with girls who could be competing L8. Certainly the coaches and the girls know what skills they're working on and where they should be competing. And eventually, everyone's going to catch up and be competing at 8, 9, and 10 together.

If a gym is seriously sandbagging, all they are doing is setting their girls up for disappointment and failure right around the time when they will most need the emotional resources to deal with setbacks and blocks as they get into the higher levels. What's the point in making L6 a total cakewalk if you're just going to be competing the next year against girls who've spent the year competing against stronger gymnasts at L7 and getting used to the reality that a few significant mistakes are enough to take them out of the running entirely? It's a dumb long-term strategy, IMHO, and will ultimately come around to bite in the butt those who pursue it. NO ONE CARES WHO WINS THE L6 OLYMPICS.

(Spoken as one who is also a boy's parent and has seen this happen with guys from another gym who've won states at a level more than once at the same compulsory level and then struggled as optionals.)

We have a lot of this in our area. The problem is that many L3 and L4 parents don't really know anything about uptraining, sandbagging, or even optionals. The kids and parents see the sandbagging gym winning at every meet, and assume they are a better gym. The gyms who compete their athletes at an appropriate level lose to the gyms who compete L7's as L4's. Some parents understand what is really going on, but there are a lot who don't. And the gymnasts flock to the gyms with the banners, which just perpetuates the cycle.

Of course optionals is what matters, but I know so many parents and gymnasts who don't understand how to evaluate a program. I know that before I discovered CB, I hadn't a clue. I assumed the "best" gym was the gym that won states every year. Now that I know better, I can see them for what they really are. Anyway, it's a tough situation for coaches who want to develop their athletes full potential, but still need to be able to convince the girls to stick around long enough to reach optionals.

 

[Short Balding Guy]

I suspect that usag will put more skill restrictions on 6 after this season. No giants would be a good start....

+1 to Giants. No restrictions on BB flight elements or tumbling elements. I would list to see USA-G open up dance difficulty.

L6 comments -
Meeting Optional Skill event requirements is just a start IMO. Optional gymnastics is about demonstrating the responsibility/ethos/athleticsm/respect (themselves/teammates/enviornment) everyday. Artistry, current L6, is very different on 2 events. Vault is about beginning to push themselves and expand. UB's is about working the lower intermediate skills to perfection. A kip/cast HS, in-bar skills (close circling elements) are asked to be improved.

I like L6 for our athletes who are working on the artistry/skills/strength/techniques for L7 and yet have mastered L5. Pre new L6, we lost many athletes who got frustrated at not "progressing" and gaining skills as fast as they previously had. They would have liked this level. While I like the L6, I cheer the idea that they can swiftly move to L7 when they have the requisite stuff. No delay - CHEERS! It is all about the athlete, our gym does seek to collect team awards.

Lastly, gyms can interpret and implement the USA-G level system as they see fit. I believe, that us Americans enjoy this freedom within our athletic organizations. Yes, gyms can choose to implement different standards. It works for their business. We compete under well established rules and it is there that the "best" prevail. Best win - if they trained ungodly hours, hard expectations and must have complete skills before move-up - and are also best - so what! Works for them. USA-G Competitions are the antithesis of "No Child Left Behind" education model. IMO, more like real life. How to compete to win or be a contender? More reps, better quality.

BTW: I ask all of our gymnasts, coaches and parents to stand and clap at meets when the winners of the AA and Team Comps are introduced and stand on the podium. Our athletes or frequently - others.

Certainly my opinion - but it is working for me in my program. I spilled a coach rant above . (Just comes out of me as we prepare for a meet this weekend, 5 weeks from Optional Mock Meet and 2.5 months from 1st Optional (L7-9) first meet.)

SBG -

 

[twinmomma]

BTW: I ask all of our gymnasts, coaches and parents to stand and clap at meets when the winners of the AA and Team Comps are introduced and stand on the podium. Our athletes or frequently - others.


SBG -[/QUOTE]


I'd flock to your gym based on this alone. Good for you for teaching kids the right lessons.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I think that just encourages doing level 5 and then going to 7. To me, making level 6 routines that are "easy" (yes, I know this is all relative) makes level 6 unnecessary. We should have left the system the way it was. It just makes no sense to me to have level 6 routines that have nothing more difficult than level 5...for my kid.

For my DD, the plan is to start at 6 and move to 7 mid-season because she is struggling on beam. Her single BHS, let alone a series, is highly inconsistent and it took her a year to even be able to do an ugly one on a high beam. But her floor is beautiful and bars are really coming along. Should her coach put her in 7 where she will be lucky to get a 7 on beam because she can't do the BHS series? Or should she "upgrade" her level 6 routines to provide a challenge. I can tell my DD would not want to win a level 6 beam event doing a CW...

There is no one size fits all on this topic.

=
The next progressional step from 5 is 7. 6 was supposed to be an alternative to compulsories. A place for kids to go who cannot make it to 7. That is why it is not a required step.

I think that just encourages doing level 5 and then going to 7. To me, making level 6 routines that are "easy" (yes, I know this is all relative) makes level 6 unnecessary. We should have left the system the way it was. It just makes no sense to me to have level 6 routines that have nothing more difficult than level 5...for my kid.

For my DD, the plan is to start at 6 and move to 7 mid-season because she is struggling on beam. Her single BHS, let alone a series, is highly inconsistent and it took her a year to even be able to do an ugly one on a high beam. But her floor is beautiful and bars are really coming along. Should her coach put her in 7 where she will be lucky to get a 7 on beam because she can't do the BHS series? Or should she "upgrade" her level 6 routines to provide a challenge. I can tell my DD would not want to win a level 6 beam event doing a CW...

There is no one size fits all on this topic.

level 6 is not a required level. So yes going 5 to 7 is what you are supposed to do if you have the skills. When people go 5 to 7 they are not skipping 6. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

I think we will compete L7 for the whole season. DD has all of her L8 skills (and even up trains some L9 skills, especially on beam) EXCEPT......wait for it.......VAULT! She just got big enough for the FHS vault. She's been working timers all summer, but she's just not big enough. At L7, she's competing BHS BHS on beam, clear hip HS & giants to layout flyaway on bars, and FHS FLO or FPike, full, and layout on floor, 1.5 turn, switch split to switch straddle leap series....... But at only 45 inches tall, the vault table is scary! Lol! Our gym does put girls in at the higher end of the level, typically. Our L6 will all have BWO BHS and most likely giants.

How old is she?! My 7 year old is almost 48 inches! Is she going to be too tall? Still new to all this....

 

[GYM0M]

How old is she?! My 7 year old is almost 48 inches! Is she going to be too tall? Still new to all this....

She will turn 9 early next year. She is realllllly short for her age. I don't think height at any age is an indicator for success in gymnastics!!

 

[Short Balding Guy]

+1 Coachp. The reply is well composed sir.

I would like to add perspective to the thoughts well stated above. How long at L6? As long as it takes to really master the upgrade skills. An example is kip/cast HS or even giant. They are really low intermediate skills in the BIG picture. But they are BIG intermediate skills as they provide gateway to more advanced gymnastics. If the upgrade skills are not mastered the athlete is in trouble. Trouble in that they can not move up, not improve, see poor competition results and potential increase of physical risk. IMO, it is a disservice to advance without the skills. Old-young/Tall-short/brown hair-blond hair/big feet-small feet ---- oh those just define individuals. Let the gymnasts learn at their speed. No delays and certainly no dilly dally's Let the coaches teach and coach. Hold them responsible for the bigger growth and big picture. Daily ups and downs are tempered by looking and guiding the athletes over a long scope. Heavens, I mentioned to one of my athletes parents last evening trying to reassure her that her L8 missing a practice to attend a student counsel meeting was not only OK, but excellent. I told her that I expect to see her daughter at the gym until she heads off to college (9 years off) and that the one day missing was OK. Her upgraded vault was improving incrementally and that progress/expectations would not be hindered by her missing the rotation. As an upper level example, early this morning we all watched M.Skinner (USA Team member) at Worlds execute a dynamite FX routine that was really rough early this summer. Let them develop and learn!

Yes the code allows skill substitutions, but really in the JO program some skills are "basics" (Kip/cast HS/ giants/BHS on BB, layouts on FX and others). Saying the skills is easy as they still must be learned, mastered and performed. Why not enjoy the learning and performing process? Why not enjoy seeing that your growth in this difficult sport is happening and you have a clear path?

As coach said when you have the skills - move on. Good for the USA-G org and member clubs for making it easy to move on to L7. Hard will come - believe me hard comes.

Best, SBG -

 

[Short Balding Guy]

Apologies offered for my posts being off topic and pontificating on about the USA-G levels. To the OP, I apologize and suggest speaking to the HC about expectations and path for your DD.

I have my athletes completing stretch and starting a dance set and felt the need to post up my apologies. Back to ballet - I am hoping to work thru basics, leaps and a turn set of fouttes en tournament, pique's and barrel rolls. L8-9's today should have a good time!

Best this evening, SBG -

 

[hearts_and_stars]

HC wanted to watch DDs bars tonight (we have a male bar coach as some of the girls are well into their teenage years and are too much for HC to throw through the air). After bars practice ended, HC kept DD back and had her work through her level 7 routine a couple of times. The last routine she told the bars coach 'no spotting, I want to see what it looks like on her own.' DD executed a beautiful bar routine--it still has patches that need to be polished but the skills were all there, done proficiently, done safely. HC has said she will give her final verdict on level in December (about a month before her first competition). DD is fired up! She wants to get back into the gym and work on what HC told her needs to be fixed, but she was terribly excited that HC was willing to watch and not automatically put her as a 6.

To SBG: DD is a very goal-oriented kid. If she has goals, everything runs smoothly; if she does not, she sort of looks lost (she does well in practice, but nothing looks focused). HC knows what her goals are and sits down with her every so often and sets some goals for her, both short term and long term. The purpose of my post was a complete lack of understanding of optionals progression. I was concerned that DD is training as an 8 but is competing down simply so she could win (something I would not be okay with) or if HC was doing it because she is still young (10) and has time to take the extra year at 6.