WAG Confusion about Optionals...

[hearts_and_stars]

So....DD was told by HC yesterday that even though she has all her level 7 skills and is training the level 8 skills, she will be competing 6 this season. DD was heartbroken. She was told by her coach that she wants her walking into optionals meets knowing the meet will be a piece of cake. I'm not sure I agree with this approach, but it is not my decision. She is disappointed, but she has made her peace with it (and is resolved to show her coach that she made a mistake by keeping her back a level).

I think she also feels a bit cheated since 6 is virtually the same as 5 and DD did very, very well as a 5 last season (mostly scored high 37s) and she feels like HC is making her 'repeat' 5. She is also a little confused since HC told her the only restrictions on 6 and 7 are no 'C' skills, so she will essentially be competing all her level 7 routines. (Do they get bonus for doing so?) I know very little about optionals as this is our first year here, but is this a common practice? Is there a subliminal motivation for the coach to down compete (for lack of a better phrase) a gymnast (other than getting her on podium)?

I don't want DD to get discouraged or de-motivated because she now sees no point in pushing the level 8 skills since she won't be able to compete them for 2 more years...

Anyone else ever deal with this type of situation? If so, how did you handle it? (DD is not quite 11 and we live in the Houston area...not sure if those details matter).

My apologies if I sound like a complete newbie here, but I really know nothing about optionals progression.

 

[htimcj]

It is quite common to do exactly what you described, especially in Texas. Many gyms will compete several levels below where the girls are actually training. Just different philosophies. There is a silver lining though...NO COMPULSORY music regardless of competing Level 6 or 7

 

[hearts_and_stars]

LOL Yes...this she is thankful for (as am I!). I am less concerned about what level she competes (I would much rather her be successful and happy--and have her first optionals season a winning one), but I also see her frustration. Given that she is still young, I don't think she has the maturity (yet) to understand HC's point of view--especially when she was told she would be competing level 7 as a level 6--I don't think she's been able to wrap her mind around the logic of that. Hopefully, when she sees that success she will be okay (and honestly, I'm keen on saving the money from not having to travel to CO this year!) and enjoy optionals competitions.

 

[GYM0M]

We have a couple coaches. One used to say 6 & the other would say 7. I thought of it as motivation. DD will be L7 (she's 8). We got an email from usag with her level on it. I'm pretty sure that only 2 others are not competing 6. Our girls are competing BHS BHS series on beam, full, front LO, & LO on floor, leap series is switch split, switch side, not sure about bars, but all have vertical casts, clear hip to HS, giants to flyaway. These skills are consistent & the girls up train constantly. We are in District 3.

 

[Natasha]

Level 6 is a very flexible level. While it is true that the minimum requirements are approximately the same as L5, it is also true that the L6 and L7 restrictions are the same (except I think they now changed L7 to allow a Dance C.) So, really, no matter what level you call it, she can compete the same routines. While there are no bonuses at L6 for doing the harder L7 skills, the competition at L6 will be less fierce and so yes, she should place better. As far as your dd being unmotivated to work her L8 skills, remind her that optionals are different, it is completely possible to compete L6 this year and do 1 score out meet at L7 (with the exact same routine) and move to L8 next year.
My concern is that the more competitive gyms are going to start doing this, which really defeats the original purpose of having an L6 level.

 

[vagymmomma]

The most important thing is that she is uptraining. I would keep stressing that and reminding her that she will do really well.

It seems that L7 is becoming like the old L6 and a lot of gyms will compete new L6 and test out of L7. As I said in another post, it personally bothers me when girls who clearly can compete L7 are competing L6 because I don't think that was the intent for creating the new level. However, I get that it's partly motivational to increase confidence and clearly within the rules. Our gym did not compete L6 last season, but they are this year. It will be interesting to see how the levels continue to change.

 

[hearts_and_stars]

@vagymommy: I am in complete agreement with you and this is likely the source of some of my negative feelings about HC's decision. I had always believed that new 6 was designed for girls who had progressed through compulsories but were not quite ready for 7 (I know for some girls giants can be a real bugaboo). We also did not have any 6s at our gym last year, but a friend of mine did and she was quite disappointed to see girls who were doing front hip circles as their circling element. If USAG's motivation was to buy an extra year for those girls who needed it while still allowing them to move through the levels (in other words, to prevent them from having to repeat a level unnecessarily while at the same time relieving them of the stress of having to compete a level they were not quite ready for), then this front hip circle trick seems to defeat the purpose (though any level 5+ who cannot execute a perfect front hip circle may have other issues besides just bars)....

DD has read the comments and she feels somewhat heartened to know other gyms also engage in a similar practice, so she is okay with competing 6 and not freaking out about what will happen next season.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Does she have her giant to flyaway? BHS on beam? Layout on floor? if so then...... well...... come on..... Level 6 is for kids who CANNOT do 7. IMHO

 

[cassafrass]

I thought I read the front hip circle no longer counts for level 6

 

[Lynn]

Just throwing this out there as we had a very similar issue over the summer.

Our former gym ( family relocation out of state ) sets the levels for the girls shortly after state and rarely ever does that change. My DD competed level 4 last season and was placed level 6/7 depending on which skills were achieved. Fast forward to right before we moved. All girls with the exception of 2 girls ( mom'a a coach at the gym and other is a "favorited" family. All 3 sisters have always had special treatment from gym owner. Started many years ago I guess! Anyways!) were told they would be competing level 4 again. One coach was overheard saying that the upcoming level 4's needed "some help" so let's keep last years at 4 again. Those new 4's are struggling while the other girls are blowing them away. As they should since they are level 7 trained gymnast who will be competing level 4 again. The gym does not do level 5 or 7.

My DD was evaluated and placed level 7 at new gym. She is currently in limbo as to where she will compete since she has been struggling with a mental block on her giants.

I like the idea that your DD coach wants her to walk into a meet confident. But what I don't like about gyms who do this is how it makes the girls feel. They have trained hard on the new skills and now are dropping back. In what could have been our case, from an optional to a compulsory again. And don't get me started on how I feel about knowing the reason behind what our FORMER gym is doing it. Didn't know it worked like that! Slowly learning!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Level 6 was added (like prep op) as an alternative to level 5 for kids who simply are not ready for 7. Its sad to hear that coaches are now using 6 as another step instead of an alternative. It is not even a required step by usag!

 

[hearts_and_stars]

Does she have her giant to flyaway? BHS on beam? Layout on floor? if so then...... well...... come on..... Level 6 is for kids who CANNOT do 7. IMHO

This is what she is slated to compete this season:
Vault: Front handspring; Working Tsuks and Yurchenkos (sp?)
Bars: Kip, cast handstand, clear hip (no handstand as HC said that's level 8, but she can do it pretty consistently), kip, squat on, kip, cast handstand, giant, giant, layout flyaway
Beam: BWO-BHS (or BHS-BHS if she can get it consistently by season), 1/1 turn, split jump-split jump combination, BHS (yes, she has 2 of them in her routine), front tuck dismount
Floor: switch leap-wolf jump combination, layout, front handspring-front combination (maybe changed to front-front--HC hasn't decided which one she thinks is more consistent).

I think it all would qualify as competitive for level 7 (depending on how well she executes), but HC wants her to compete level 6 for confidence.

I thought I read the front hip circle no longer counts for level 6

It may have been...since we did not have any level 6s last year, I'm relying on what I was told by friends at another gym. I certainly hope the front hip circle no longer counts for level 6 as it is a level 3 requirement.

 

[gymmomtoo]

Given those skills, she should be competing level 7. If she's executing poorly, maybe level 6, but otherwise I don't understand the coach's decision.

 

[htimcj]

This is what she is slated to compete this season:
Vault: Front handspring; Working Tsuks and Yurchenkos (sp?)
Bars: Kip, cast handstand, clear hip (no handstand as HC said that's level 8, but she can do it pretty consistently), kip, squat on, kip, cast handstand, giant, giant, layout flyaway
Beam: BWO-BHS (or BHS-BHS if she can get it consistently by season), 1/1 turn, split jump-split jump combination, BHS (yes, she has 2 of them in her routine), front tuck dismount
Floor: switch leap-wolf jump combination, layout, front handspring-front combination (maybe changed to front-front--HC hasn't decided which one she thinks is more consistent).

I think it all would qualify as competitive for level 7 (depending on how well she executes), but HC wants her to compete level 6 for confidence.



It may have been...since we did not have any level 6s last year, I'm relying on what I was told by friends at another gym. I certainly hope the front hip circle no longer counts for level 6 as it is a level 3 requirement.

With those skills I really don't understand the decision. Level 6 was meant for kids who DON'T have those skills but are ready to move from L5.

 

[raenndrops]

I thought I read the front hip circle no longer counts for level 6

Yes... it has to be a clear circling skill (from group 3, 6, or 7... I think).

 

[gymdog]

Level 6 was added (like prep op) as an alternative to level 5 for kids who simply are not ready for 7. Its sad to hear that coaches are now using 6 as another step instead of an alternative. It is not even a required step by usag!

Anything for an easy win in VA! The culture of competition here is...interesting.

 

[hearts_and_stars]

Is it possible DDs HC is looking to get some gym recognition by having one of her stronger gymnasts compete down a few levels? I'm just wondering, because DD isn't the only one on her team facing this situation....There are a few girls training as 8s--or at least training 8 skills--and competing as 6s. DD will be in the junior group (she is not quite 11) and a few of the others will be seniors (they're 13+)...DDs gym is a smaller gym that hasn't had much of an optional team until this year (when the compulsory girls moved up, HC suddenly had a lot of depth on her optionals team, even though they're all 6s)...Just wondering if this could be a possibility (and what everyone's thoughts are on this)...

BTW, the girls in question--those who are training as 8s but competing 6--have the same skills in their routines and they are all in roughly the same place with them (not sure if that matters)...

 

[profmom]

Giants and good form on bars seems to be the dividing line between 6 and 7 around here, but some gyms (like ours) do not compete L6. No giants, no optionals.

 

[Clover]

Does she have her giant to flyaway? BHS on beam? Layout on floor? if so then...... well...... come on..... Level 6 is for kids who CANNOT do 7. IMHO

I don't think that this will necessarily be the case anymore. Our gym will certainly have girls competing these skills (and better) at L6. IMHO L7 will start being more upgraded - BHS, BHS on beam; clear hip to HS on bars, fulls on floor, etc.

 

[3LittleGymmies]

With those skills I really don't understand the decision. Level 6 was meant for kids who DON'T have those skills but are ready to move from L5.

I would agree with this. I also think that it is designed for girls who have some or most, but not all Level 7 skills. My daughter has everything BUT does not have a cast to handstand yet, let alone a giant. All of the girls on her team have enough beam and floor skills to compete 6-7-8, but their bars aren't as far along (a few are casting to handstand, a few can do giants on the strap bar, 1-2 have their clear hip to handstand) and that will be the deciding factor for going to 7 no matter what else they can do. There was one girl in 4 who was casting to handstand and starting to do giants - and she was moved to 7. The bar skills definitely seem to be the ticket.