Feedback from judges?

[hannahsmom]

This is purely a curiosity question....but, do judges give feedback on their scores or do they simply give a score? For instance, do the coaches get anything afterward that says "why" a judge scored a certain way or that might say "need work on leaps" or "great leaps", etc? DD's first L4 meet is still 6 weeks or so away, so I'm just curious.

 

[emacmommy]

No there really isn't anything we get directly from each judge that states why a score was given. Coaches have to have extensive knowledge of the USAG routine requirement text with all the deductions and requirements just as a judge has to take exams to prove she is proficient. Not to mention can you imagine how much time that would take?

It is common after a meet is over and all judgements submitted for a coach to approach a judge if they have specific questions about the generalities of what a girl or team may still be lacking or getting continually marked down on. In my years of experience the courtesy, and I believe the official rules, are these questions must be posed after all judgements are finalized and only by the coach. Really any conversation or fraternizing with the judges is to be held off until after the meet, but we aren't as strict in our state as long as it is not interferring with rolling those girls on through in a timely manner. States that are more loose with protocol I have seen coaches approach after an event is over or during a lull in the meet. I don't feel comfortable with that timing, I wait until a meet is over. I just did this last saturday during our own home meet.

If there is a definite dispute about a score and a coach wants to take action on it, it must be done through the proper means by Rules and Policy in the manner of an inquiry form. The meet director takes the inquiry form to the meet referee (head judge), who in turn takes it to discuss the inquiry with the judge(s) who awarded the score. These inquiry forms must be very specific to what is in question and only that specific inquiry incident in the routine is discussed. This usually is only used in the optional levels, rarely at a compulsory meet as the routines and deductions are so straight-forward.

Now many of our judges at the first meet of the season will encourage a girl or give feedback after a routine is over and the gymnast is waiting for her achievement ribbon. We had a judge do this at our first meet this year and the girls really liked it. Noone has done it since then. I liked this for the first meet except the judge, who was from out of state, didn't really know me very well so wasn't sure my own opinion of addressing my gymnasts. I told her it was great.

The big thing is this is something a coach must do, not a gymnast or parent. I hope that answers your question.

 

[NGL780309]

No there really isn't anything we get directly from each judge that states why a score was given. Coaches have to have extensive knowledge of the USAG routine requirement text with all the deductions and requirements just as a judge has to take exams to prove she is proficient. Not to mention can you imagine how much time that would take?

Well you would hope that your coach has this knowledge, but sadly some don't. We were in a situation where the coach really didn't know that much.

 

[gymdog]

No, in an average meet you don't receive this kind of feedback, just a score. There are some critique/judges cup meet where more extensive feedback is given but this is fairly unusual. It is not uncommon for gyms to have a judge come in and evaluate their gymnasts and then give feedback that way, during the practice time (not as a sanctioned meet, more of an informal "private" with the judge).

 

[B Gymnast]

At some of the smaller meets we go to, the judge might tell our coach things she took off on, or things that she didn't think we needed in our routines. For instance, at our first meet the floor judge told my coach that i should take something out of my routine because another judge could mix it up with a wolf full, which is a C, so my routine would've been voided.. but normally, the judges don't give feedback unless it's a super small meet (normally at the beginning of the season).

 

[MamaofEnS]

This is a good question, though, especially for a new parent. I was wondering what happens after a coach does make a formal protest about a score. Our gym had a meet and our entire team scored about a point lower on floor than they usually do. The coach made a protest because the other teams had scores similar to other meets. I just don't know what came out of it. My DD didn't compete at this meet, but I am just curious about it too.

MamaofEnS

 

[hannahsmom]

Thanks everyone! Our gym does do a "mock meet" before the season actually begins, so we will get that feedback. I had a feeling the judges didn't give feedback, especially at the bigger meets. Thanks again!

 

[gymdog]

This is a good question, though, especially for a new parent. I was wondering what happens after a coach does make a formal protest about a score. Our gym had a meet and our entire team scored about a point lower on floor than they usually do. The coach made a protest because the other teams had scores similar to other meets. I just don't know what came out of it. My DD didn't compete at this meet, but I am just curious about it too.

MamaofEnS

You file a score inquiry. It's basically a sheet of paper, sort of like a worksheet, and the judges write in the deductions they took on the skills (so it's a little more straightforward for the compulsory level). This doesn't really mean the score is changed, unless some mistake was made or something. It just means you find out what the issue was. It's very unusual to have a score changed, typically if it is an issue with more than one routine it's an issue of deductions not of mistakes.

 

[Gymnasticgrandkids]

Two things: In Central Florida, there is a meet at the beginning of the season that is USAG sanctioned called the Judges Cup and at that meet, the judges give the coaches a written evaluation for each gymnast, which is then discussed with the gymnast by their coach and given to the gymnasts to keep. Also, at our gym many of the coaches are also certified judges so they already know how to judge the gymnasts and can give them constant information and corrections.

 

[Swiftli]

You file a score inquiry. It's basically a sheet of paper, sort of like a worksheet, and the judges write in the deductions they took on the skills (so it's a little more straightforward for the compulsory level). This doesn't really mean the score is changed, unless some mistake was made or something. It just means you find out what the issue was. It's very unusual to have a score changed, typically if it is an issue with more than one routine it's an issue of deductions not of mistakes.

How do the judges know one girls score from the next so far after the fact? I know they do their shorthand version of the routine during the meet but after the meet, I have seen judges leave these sheets as trash that we throw out as we clean up after the meet.

 

[gymdog]

How do the judges know one girls score from the next so far after the fact? I know they do their shorthand version of the routine during the meet but after the meet, I have seen judges leave these sheets as trash that we throw out as we clean up after the meet.

An inquiry has to be filed by the end of the rotation, basically, or before the next one anyway. You can't just file it like a day after the meet. The judges look back through their notes to see what the major deductions were.

 

[katvernay]

also, judges mark the number of the girl next to their shorthand. 1. because the scores have to be verified before they are "official" (so the scores go from judge to the meet table, then back to the judge for verification, THEN the score is official and placing can be dealt with) and 2. to deal with inquiries

 

[gymgurl]

In Australia because it's optional routines (state stream is more flexible - no pun intended- kind of like prep opt i guess) from level 4 judges will tell you if a skill/series is no longer allowed/does not meet requirements but not the actual deductions

 

[gympanda]

After a score inquiry is delivered to the judges on the event in question the first thing the judges do is redo their math. This means there is always a chance that by filing a score inquiry a gymnast's score could go up or down based on a mistake in math.

Then the judges look at the specific question on the sheet. There are three things that can be inquired about: SV, Neutral Deductions (spotting, coaching, overtime, no salute, etc.), score range. These are the only things we can look at. Here is the link to the score inquiry form: http://www.usa-gymnastics.org/PDFs/Forms/Women/inquiry.pdf We fill out of rest of the form showing what received credit and what didn't, what each of our scores was and if the score changed. 90% of the time there is no change in score, but sometimes we find a mistake and the score gets changed. I've only changed a score once in 8 years.

 

[Blazing15]

We volunteered at our state meet this last weekend and DD and I got to flash the scores. The cool thing was sitting next to the judges and see how they score. Yes they put a number on their paper and then do shorthand. At the end of the routine was nice to see them compare scores and if they were both way off from the other they would say well I took this off for this and what did you take off for it and stuff like that. It was an awesome experience.