Help understanding L7 bars scoring

[momof5]

DD will start competing next weekend and she and I don't fully understand the bars scoring. She is competing clear hip on the low bar and giant on the high bar. Her coach was trying to explain different bar routines and start values but it went right over my head! If DD does clear hip below horizontal what is the strart value? What is the start value at horizontal? Can she only receive at 10.0 start value with the clear hip at 45 deg above horizontal? Also at what point of coming over the bar do the judges look for this angle and then decide what credit to asign it?

 

[Ingwe]

If I am not mistaken (and I very well may be ) all L7 bar routines start at a 10.0 but then you get get deducted for things such as not hitting HS, Free Hips at or below horizontal etc.

I know there are lots of people on this board who have a better understanding of the various deductions in routines.

I will say last year when my Dd was competing L7 she got deducted to death from shorting her Free Hip HS and cast handstands. Her bars scores averaged about 8.8ish

 

[gymcoach34]

At the optinal level, it all about handstands on bars. The routine will start at 10.0 if it has all requirements-5 A's, 2 B's, one cast to a min of 45 degree of vertical, 2 circle elements form group 3,6, or7 (one must be of B value-clear hip counts as this), and a salto dismount-min A.

Even though a one 45 degree cast is required-the casts are all deducted if they are not within 10 degrees of handstand.

 

[gymnut1]

Only one circling element must be from 3,6 or 7 the other can be giants from group 4.

 

[gymcoach34]

Right gymnut-wrote that out wrong.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

I think if she was getting 8.8's on bars, she wasn't getting deducted to death!!! Sounds like a great bars routine for a first year L7.

Now... on the other hand... my DD (first year L7, had only 2 meets so far), has scored 8.2 and 7.8 on bars. She doesn't have her cast to handstand nor giants yet. Her clear hips are just barely above horizontal... so she's really got to put in some more work to start scoring higher!!

 

[Ingwe]

I think if she was getting 8.8's on bars, she wasn't getting deducted to death!!! Sounds like a great bars routine for a first year L7.

Now... on the other hand... my DD (first year L7, had only 2 meets so far), has scored 8.2 and 7.8 on bars. She doesn't have her cast to handstand nor giants yet. Her clear hips are just barely above horizontal... so she's really got to put in some more work to start scoring higher!!

I guess I should have phrased that a little better.

 

[gymdog]

I'm assuming the routine is cast, clear hip, cast handstand, giant, giant layout flyaway.

Depending on the cast before the clear hip, if the clear hip is below horizontal she would probably be missing a B (this would be reflected in the SV - if they flash a 10 SV she will not be missing a B). The clear hip needs to be to horizontal to get B credit. The angle is determined at the point where the gymnast is in clear support (hands on top of the bar at the completion of the circle).

 

[gympanda]

I just finished judging an entire day of optional bars, so I saw this routine many times today. If she does a clear hip below horizontal, but hits the handstand on HB she will still have a 10.0 SV. If she doesn't get the handstand then she will be missing a B and have a SV of 9.7.

She does not necessarily need a counting clear hip to achieve a 10.0 SV. The special requirements are for:
1. a 'B' circling element
2. a circling skill from gp 3,6,7
This allows for a routine with an 'A' clear hip to still achieve all special requirements if there is a 'B' circling skill (giant), plus another 'B' skill to achieve all the value part requirements. Usually a handstand.

We judge the angle of the clear hip when the wrists shift.

 

[gymnut1]

That is interesting. I have recently been reading the JO code on this. Does the handstand have to be on the high bar to count as a B or can it be low bar. Also does it have to be a cast handstand or will passing through handstand during a giant count.

In the code it clearly says if the clear hip is devalued to an A because it is not clear (hips touch bar) then the special requirement is not met.

I am interested to know that if it is devalued because of cast angle then the requirement is still met for clear circle and the B can be met in another way. That does make sense now I read it.

thanks gympanda you are certainly a useful person

 

[gymcoach34]

The handstand does not have to be on the high bar. But, every attempt at handstand that does not get within 10 degrees is deducted. Passing through hs in a giant does not count, but the handstand before the giant would.

 

[gympanda]

In the code it clearly says if the clear hip is devalued to an A because it is not clear (hips touch bar) then the special requirement is not met.

I am interested to know that if it is devalued because of cast angle then the requirement is still met for clear circle and the B can be met in another way. That does make sense now I read it.

If the clear hip turns into a back hip circle, meaning her hips touch the bar, then she does not meet the "Clear Circling Element from grp 3,6,7" requirement, since the element is not clear. That requirement can be met with an A clear hip, meaning the finishing angle is lower than horizontal, because the element is clear.

I had a routine on Sunday that was: kip, 'A' clear hip (clearly below horizontal), kip, squat on, long hang kip, handstand, giant, flyaway. She started at a 10 and went 9.15 as she was super clean. Just an example of how these requirements can be met without the B clear hip. I remember the routine because we discussed how she was probably going to win bars in her age group without a B clear hip, but as there is no composition in L7 there is nothing but execution we could take.

 

[gymcoach34]

I had a routine on Sunday that was: kip, 'A' clear hip (clearly below horizontal), kip, squat on, long hang kip, handstand, giant, flyaway. She started at a 10 and went 9.15 as she was super clean. Just an example of how these requirements can be met without the B clear hip. I remember the routine because we discussed how she was probably going to win bars in her age group without a B clear hip, but as there is no composition in L7 there is nothing but execution we could take.[/QUOTE]


Interesting! So was her cast before the clear hip and the giant to hs?How much of and angle deduction did u take for the clear hip (if you remember?lol)

 

[gympanda]

Flat .3 on the cast before the clear hip (horizontal cast). The clear hip was just below horizontal so there really isn't an angle deduction to take as it receiving A value part credit. Keep in mind that it is a flat .2 deduction for a 'B' clear hip that hits exactly at horizontal. So there isn't a huge angle deduction to take on that...not like the .3 horizontal cast deduction. But, I took .1 for body and .1 for arms. A little body and arms on HB handstand, which was in the 10 degree "cone", and giant and one step on flyaway. I took .1 on dynamics because of the clear hip, but otherwise a very clean and nice routine.

 

[gymcoach34]

gympanda-can you come and judge here? LOL! Sound very fair but the judges where I am sometimes forget there is no composition deduction at L7.....

 

[gympanda]

Trust me...we have it here as well. I would love to see a filled out inquiry sheet on a routine like this that receives a low 8...because I know it happens.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

this week end i had:

kip cast handstand>clear hip to handstand>glide kip straight leg toe on>long hang kip cast handstand>giant swing> layout flyaway= 9.75

another for comparison: kip cast handstand>clear hip above horizontal>glide kip straight leg toe on>kip cast handstand>giant swing>layout flyaway= 9.4

both routines hit handstands, both flyaways were layed out above the bar, both stuck their landings. both had straight arms thruout including at the top of the giant where most kids bend. they took 1st and 2nd in the child age group.

so, the clear hip to handstand vs. 70 degrees was a difference of .35. still can't figure it out...

 

[Megley]

Well, at least I now understand why my dd's coach is hell bent on getting her free hip all the way to handstand.

 

[gymcoach34]

Lmk when you do dunno- my fav is when the kid who clear hips to hs w bent arms & horrible body position beats the kid who is super clean and does the 2 handstands, a beautiful clear hip to 3/4 and a nice giant flyaway. just happened to my athlete 2 weeks ago!

 

[NotAMom]

I have a somewhat related question on L7 scoring. (Gympanda or anyone)

Under the new rule, there is a notion that some judges would lower the SV (or deduct?) for extra tap swings coming out of a giant/baby-giant before the flyaway (or giant-giant-babygiant-swings-flyaway in our case). Coaches appear to be all over the place on that as well.

The amount is pretty hefty when they do take off for that. This happened in the beginning of 08/09 season. What is the general rule on that? Or, is that still in place?