How to get the kip??

[LizzieLac]

Hi,

DD started training for level 5 a little less than 2 months ago. Before that she was in Prep Opt Novice - and didn't need to do a kip for the bar routine. Now she does and she is getting a little frustrated that she hasn't gotten it yet. She said this morning she probably won't be ready to compete our first meet of the season which is usually early October.

One of her coaches said she should do LOTS of V-ups for abs because you need good stomach and core strength.

What else might help? I think you need to have good tricep strength to get that last part where you push yourself up.

Any suggestions?? Thanks!!!

 

[runnergirl]

Aahh, the dreaded Kip. This was a thorn in my own DD's side when she moved from level 4 to level 5. In speaking with our coach as well as other mothers who had daughters in the upper levels it seems to be a combination of upper body strength as well as learning the "feeling", as in how you have to position your weight. I think alot of girls get frustrated and this can work against you and can create a mental block. It is not an easy skill, but I bet once she finally "gets it", it will be like a switch. My DD started the additional TOPS practices shortly after she moved to level 5 & the additional strength & conditioning did wonders for her ability to perfect her kip.

Just make sure you give your DD lots of support and remind her that these skills do take time. I know the beginning of our level 5 competition season, I was amazed at how many girls still had not mastered their kip so I'm sure she would not be the only one that does not have it perfected

 

[MaryA]

I feel your pain. My daughter is in the same exact situation. I try to remind myself that last year at this time it was the RO BHS we were worrying about and now she has that, and even her double, beautifully. I guess the difference is, if she hadn't gotten it, she could have still done her floor routine, either with just a RO or a with spotter (granted, there would be big deductions, but she'd still get to compete at that event). But if she doesn't get her kip before October, I'm thinking that she won't even be able to compete on bars, will she? I mean, she has to do 2 of them!

Does anyone know what the level 5s that haven't gotten their kips do at meets? Do they compete and just attempt a kip and then do a pull-over, or do they generally just not compete on that event?

The other thing about the RO BHS (or giants or any of the other skills that girls struggle with especially) is that they LOOK impressive! The kip doesn't look like anything really... just a way to get up on the bar! And yet it's so hard!

DD has a week-long gymnastics day-camp at the "real" gym in town (my daughter is on the Y team) in a couple of weeks. I'm hoping beyond all hope that she'll get it there! Good luck to your daughter too. Be sure to let me know when your daughter gets it, and I'll do the same!

 

[mariposa]

I am not sure what the magic kip solution is, it is a tricky skill for sure. My DD got hers last year when she was almost 7, she was doing another year of level 4, so didn't need it. Her bar coach kept her practicing them and she had a beautiful kip up until that coach left for another gym at the end of fall. She didn't work them as much all during spring and though she still had it, it wasn't really pretty anymore. Then she hurt her wrist and "lost" her kip during her break from bars. Got it back just in time to be put in grips and she just finally got it back, though it is hit or miss, too. Crazy.

Abdominal strength does seem to be a big one, though I am not sure it is everything. My DD has 4 girls that moved up with her to level 5 and I think her gym does quite a bit of conditioning and these girls are strong, only one of them has made her kip and it is still very iffy. And I am pretty sure my DD didn't have great ab strength when she got hers.

Holding toes to the bar is another drill they do at DDs gym, then when they can do that, they swing with toes to the bar. Tons of spotted ones so they get the feel of it, too.

I guess it depends on the gym as to whether they compete level 5 without the kip or not. At DDs gym, they usually don't compete if they don't have all 4 events/all the skills. I don't know what the score would be if a girl didn't have her 2 kips.

Sending kip fairies to all that need them!!

 

[Megley]

I remember vividly going through this with my dd. She finally did get her kip before competition season, but it wasn't straight armed and pretty until near the end of the season. I really think the skill is largely about timing and shapes. The glide into it is hugely important, as is the wrist shift. I am not srue there is much you can do other than wait, though I know it's stressful. She will get it eventually. Then it will be on to the next skill. My dd is now stressing about giants.

As for competing without it, we did have a Level 5 last year who did that and it was not pretty. Her scores were in the 4s and 5s. Basically, she would try it and then do a pullover when she didn't make it. I don't recommend this because the blow to the child's self esteem and confidence is pretty big. This particular child wound up finally getting her kip but quit at the end of the season. I don't know why our gym let her do it (probably parental pressure not to repeat Level 4), but I do not believe they will allow it this year.

 

[LizzieLac]

I am ok with not DD not competing right off at the beginning of the season. But I haven't really discussed this with her, as I am trying to let her come to me on the topic of gym. And, I haven't seen any practice for over a month except for her TOPS workouts once per week. So, I have no idea what her kip looks like or how far off she is.

My DD is very analyical and likes to know what she should be doing to get the required skills. I know she loves competing, but that might be because she had such a good season last year in Prep Opt! Some of level 5 skills are a little challenging for her right now, but her coach told us she thought she was on track with everything and noted the biggest challenge for DD is going to be that darned kip!

I think at our gym, they prefer to have the kids wait until they have the skills reasonably well before having them compete...possibly due to the disapointment that Megley mentioned. I am not going to bring any of this up until September when the fall practice schedule starts. Maybe the kip will come together by then....!!

 

[bogwoppit]

My youngest is in the same situation and she has been working on her kip FOREVER!! I mean years, but obviously sporadically. They train few hours so she may only get to try her kip 5 times once week. She gets it more often now, but it needs to stick for her to go up to the next level, and she wants that VERY badly.

There is so much to this skill, some kids get it so quickly it can be even mmore frustrating for those struggling with it. A new girl to our gym literally git it on her second try and it stuck, even with straight arms! Baby Bog was happy for her, but she was also perplexed with herself as it just didn't work like that for her.

It is just one of many skills that can take a lot of time for some girls. Personally I would prefer that they have the kip before they compete, the deductions are just too huge to do it without.

 

[gymdog]

Strength is important but only to a point. Then it's just getting the hang of it, which can unfortunately be frustrating. Drills help, again to a point, but at some point you just have to kind of feel it out I think. For example I am pretty strong but these little tiny girls are pretty strong too, probably stronger than me, but it doesn't take "muscle" for me to do a kip. I'm not trying to understate the amount of strenght it takes but basically just saying you don't have to be superhuman. My body just does certain things at certain times and it happens. For the kids the issue is that they are not doing the timing right, even when they have the strength.

But conditioning never hurts, the faster they can recruit their muscles the better, but again strength is only the issue to a point. Then it is a matter of just learning how to time it right, where to pull, where to push, etc.

 

[LizzieLac]

Bog, I hear what you are saying - similar situation here. One other girl moved to level 5 from Prep Opt with my DD (they scored similarly but had different strengths and weaknesses). Well, this other girl seems to be getting the kip pretty easily. Yes, DD is happy for her and they are friends, but it is frustrating.

I have point out to my DD that she has her cartwheel on beam, while her teamate is very inconsistent. It is the nature of gymnastics, but makes for such highs and lows

 

[MaryA]

Yes, my DD has her cartwheel on beam, her RO BHS BHS, her vault (most of the time).. she probably has more of the actual level 5 skills than she had of the level 4 skills this time last year. It's just this one... well, and her squat-on too but she's close on that... that seems to be kicking her butt. I'm sure she'll compete level 5 this year, even if she doesn't get her kip, but she may not compete bars, which will mean no move-up score, but until she gets her kip, there's no reason to discuss her moving up anyway.

Yes, we definitely need any kip fairies you can send our way!

 

[bogwoppit]

BAby Bog is lucky in some ways as she can still compete a routine with a flyaway in the lower level. Here routine is pullover, cast to horizontal, squat on, swing to horizontal, baby giant, flyaway. SO the kip is slowing her down but she has all the other skills just ready to go.

I totally agree with gymdog, the kip is all about technique and timing, if you watch kips done well you can see how it is all about that swing and then the timing of the shift. It just takes time.

 

[mariposa]

And the glide is very important, too! The coach my DD had when she got her kip was ALL about the glide, extending the glide, etc. I remember my DD coming home crying one day that her coach told her she couldn't do kips anymore until she started extending her glide again. LOL. I also remember people commenting when I posted her kip video here that she extended her glide nicely. I don't think she does her kip the same now as she did when she first got it. That coach really knew how to coach a kip, I think. We miss her. She was an amazing coach.

 

[Megley]

I'll just add that the jump to the bar to start the glide is important too. They have to be hollow - feet in front. This was a lesson it took a long time for my dd to learn and even now she gets reminded by the coach about it all the time. This is an issue on the jump to high bar too.

 

[Brandon]

Well, the oach is right, lots of situps and things to build core strength is good. Also try doing some shoulder excersises, as the pull with the shoulders is half of the skill.

And, timing is the main thing in the kip. It takes most people a while to get used to the fell, and the timing. Please keep in mind that the kip will not be a quick skill to learn. Most gymnasts try for half, 3/4, or even a full year to get this skill. But once you get it, it will be stuck in your brain forever!

 

[NGL780309]

DD just started working on them a tiny bit at gym, but only if they finish their L4 routine the coach will spot one or two and I'm sure she's doing most of the work. It seems like at that rate it will likely take forever.

 

[mariposa]

DD just started working on them a tiny bit at gym, but only if they finish their L4 routine the coach will spot one or two and I'm sure she's doing most of the work. It seems like at that rate it will likely take forever.

But that is the funny thing with the kip, you just never know. My DD rarely worked on them at her old gym. She tried a lot on her own, but they only did drills occasionally as she was competing level 4 and it was meet season. She changed gyms right after that season was over and within a few weeks of being at her gym, with an amazing bar coach, she got her kip (a few months before her 7th birthday, which was her goal, LOL). Some of the girls on her team are amazing gymnasts, great strength and form and mine didn't have that at all when she got her kip. And they are still trying to get it over a year later. Why my kid got hers and they haven't is BEYOND me. It makes no sense. But that is the kip for you. Some kids it takes forever and some it just clicks.

And it is one of those skills that can drive a kid crazy (the parents, too) because it comes and goes for awhile sometimes before it sticks. At this time last year I was happy my DD had her kip because I knew she had a year until she did level 5 and hoped bars would be a strong event for her, now meet season is coming up and (after an injury, different bar coaches, etc) I wonder what will happen on bars. LOL.

 

[gym law mom]

Not much I can add that will help with the kip. Yes, having good core strength is a plus and patience. This skill doesn't just "happen." It is a skill that requires timing and getting everything to work together just right---the jump, glide, staying tight and pushing the legs up, staying close to the bar and keeping the arms straight. Once they get it, it will probably come and got for a month or so and will need some cleaning up so its done with the legs together, pointed toes and more or less straight arms. Then in a few years you'll probably face a similar situation with giants(I called them the optional kip).

I think the big thing is not to make a big deal about it. Seems the more the girls think about it and fret over it, the longer it takes.

I believe the OP asked about what other gyms do for girls that don't have the kip. The present gym we go to doesn't do L4, so the pre-team program is completely focused on L5. To make the L5 team, they have to be able to do the L5 bar routine---not perfectly, but they have to hit both kips, squat on etc.

IMHO, it would be cruel to have a girl compete L5 bars without the kip since it is done 2x in the routine. I think it would be incredibly disheartening to a child to see such a low score.

BTW--The 2nd kip in the L5 bar routine is a long hang kip and the technique is somewhat different from the glide kip.

Good luck to all the "kippers" out there---it will happen for all of them.

 

[UnoMas]

She will get it...she hasn't really been working on it that long. October is still a ways away! I will shoo some kip fairies your way.

My DD got hers in May after about 2 months of training. The thing was, she got it at an open gym birthday party, NOT at practice! During practice she was spotted and really only got to try it a couple times in a row and then got moved to the next station. At the birthday party she tried again and again and AGAIN and then suddenly there she was...on top of the bar beaming and shocked that she had done it. She got her high bar kip about a week later (at practice!). I think for her it was the chance to do it over and over and try to figure it out on her own.

Anyway, our new L5's have been training for 4 months now and about 15 out of 20 of them have their kips consistenly. They come and go at first, and I know it makes them so frustrated to not have it or have it and then lose it...but they get it.

Your DD will get it too! Hopefully in time for that first meet!

 

[LizzieLac]

We are not focusing on the kip so much and don't talk about it a lot. However, DD did say that after the jump and the glide she can get her toes up to the bar just fine. So, I am guessing the missing piece is pulling her chest up to the bar. Sounds like she may need to work on shoulder and tricep strength.

I am sure she will get it, as will all the other girls!! Will just need to keep out thoughts positive and not get frustrated!

 

[bogwoppit]

Some of it is also pushing down on the bar at the right moment, using the momentum of the butt swinging backwards to get up easily. If they push down too soon they can't get up or they muscle it up.

It is a physics lesson!