WAG Level 7 bars question?

[munchkin3]

It seems 'generally' now a days that to compete at medium to big meets and perform decently, the skills at that level need to be either super clean, or the routines must be a bit harder.....
But, there are always outliers and I have seen amazing 'wow' bar routines without Giants. But for the most part, for a decent bar score you should include at least one giant. I have seen double backs for L8 at big meets too!!!
IMO, if an athlete has great everything else, and is missing Giants, they should let them go for L7.
Unfortunately for our gym, no Giants, no L7 either..... ......I don't want to think of the future of this sport. I'm already regretting letting my DD pick gymnastics since now I'm constantly terrified.

 

[raenndrops]

I forgot... We also had an L8 without giants. She had a kip-CHS- pirouette on low bar, clear hips on both bars, and an uprise.

 

[Gymmommy71]

I forgot... We also had an L8 without giants. She had a kip-CHS- pirouette on low bar, clear hips on both bars, and an uprise.

Also meets the requirements .

 

[raenndrops]

Also meets the requirements .

Exactly
As long as they can meet the requirements set forth by USAG, I think gyms should be flexible in THEIR requirements. Not all gymnasts are cookie cutter. They don't all fit into the perfect mold.

 

[flippingtogether]

Exactly
As long as they can meet the requirements set forth by USAG, I think gyms should be flexible in THEIR requirements. Not all gymnasts are cookie cutter. They don't all fit into the perfect mold.

^^^ This. So perfectly said.

And not only are gymnasts all [VERY] different and not cookie cutter - there are some crazy situations that happen behind the scenes that make each gymmie's road to where they are and current situation different and unique from others.

I THANK GOODNESS our gym truly realizes this.

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

DD competed clear hips for 7 last year. Her problem is not the giant it is the handstand out of anything. So HC decided to have her repeat 7 this year. She went to coach congress this week and came back with different drills. Guess what? CH HS giant layout fly away in one day. Two fricken years! I am hoping she will have them cleanly and can move to L 8 this season.

You give me hope! Kipper is repeating L7 this year, and hitting HS in her CH is her biggest goal! She can hit HS sometimes from a cast, but not consistently....and her CH to HS is coming oh so slowly!!!! She can do CH into giants...but it's not real pretty yet. I would ask for the drills...but no point. Kipper would be mortified and the gym would brand me as crazy. So I'll just allow time for the process to work its magic. ;-)

 

[Mom2-4]

How

You give me hope! Kipper is repeating L7 this year, and hitting HS in her CH is her biggest goal! She can hit HS sometimes from a cast, but not consistently....and her CH to HS is coming oh so slowly!!!! She can do CH into giants...but it's not real pretty yet. I would ask for the drills...but no point. Kipper would be mortified and the gym would brand me as crazy. So I'll just allow time for the process to work its magic. ;-)

How old is Kipper? I feel like if they don't have a handstand before puberty it gets so much harder. I don't really understand what HC said she tried. If I can get a video I will. Something about speeding up the drop and changing the shape of the tap. I don't know. She said there may be a shape deduction. But after 2 years she said it wouldn't hurt to try something new. Good luck to Kipper.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

As has been said, NOT a USAG requirement but I will say that we saw only 2 L7 gymnasts at States who did NOT have a giant in their routine. They didn't score well.
At our gym you must have it to compete L7. We don't do L6, so sans giant you repeat L5. If you have already repeated L5 and have all your other L7 skills, you may compete L7 but you will scratch bars and floor until your giants are there (HC uses their new, individual floor routines as a carrot to get bars in order.... You don't have the skills to compete bars, you don't GET to compete floor. You must earn that!).

 

[raenndrops]

At our gym you must have it to compete L7. We don't do L6, so sans giant you repeat L5. If you have already repeated L5 and have all your other L7 skills, you may compete L7 but you will scratch bars and floor until your giants are there (HC uses their new, individual floor routines as a carrot to get bars in order.... You don't have the skills to compete bars, you don't GET to compete floor. You must earn that!).

Glad our HC isn't like that. Wouldn't be anyone at the gym past L4 because they would quit or change gyms.

 

[newbiegymnasticsmoma]

A girl at my dd's gym competed level 7 without giants due to a metal block. She met all the other requirements and received great scores all year. She did toe shoot to handstand, free hip, and half turn on low bar. Typically the gym doesn't allow progression to 7 without giants but in this case they did and it went great!

 

[LizzieLac]

We typical have not competed kids at level 7 without a giant or BHS on beam. I have mixed opinions about for the reasons stated. I understand it is a coaching philosophy and it is probably one they feel returns good long term results. However, there are instances where the flexibility allowed in the requirements is there to help the gymnast and we should take advantage of it.

The introduction of level 6 as an optional level does allow kids into optionals and the ability to compete skills on events they may be better on. For us, no giant means level 6. The BHS on beam is required for level 6.

 

[raenndrops]

We typical have not competed kids at level 7 without a giant or BHS on beam. I have mixed opinions about for the reasons stated. I understand it is a coaching philosophy and it is probably one they feel returns good long term results. However, there are instances where the flexibility allowed in the requirements is there to help the gymnast and we should take advantage of it.

The introduction of level 6 as an optional level does allow kids into optionals and the ability to compete skills on events they may be better on. For us, no giant means level 6. The BHS on beam is required for level 6.

So your gym is still potentially keeping some out of optionals by requiring BHS on beam at L6.
Our L6 can compete any acceptable (per USAG rules) acro skill. We had cartwheel, BWO, FWO, round off, and (toward the end of the season, due to injury) a handstand.

 

[LizzieLac]

So your gym is still potentially keeping some out of optionals by requiring BHS on beam at L6.
Our L6 can compete any acceptable (per USAG rules) acro skill. We had cartwheel, BWO, FWO, round off, and (toward the end of the season, due to injury) a handstand.

Not really... No giant + no BHS on beam = Platinum (assuming they have the floor skills)

 

[flippingtogether]

Not really... No giant + no BHS on beam = Platinum (assuming they have the floor skills)

....And our gym doesn't do Xcel - and there are many others out there.

After having lived through a first year of a kid doing optionals (L7) successfully but perhaps unconventionally, I have truly realized that (1) there are many areas of gray that should be considered by coaches, and (2) I thank my lucky stars that our coaches consider what to do about these gray areas on a case-by-case basis.

 

[raenndrops]

Not really... No giant + no BHS on beam = Platinum (assuming they have the floor skills)

But then the FHS vault is only out of a 9.8 and a series or flight is required on beam and on floor, they need a B salto or second acro series.
That isn't exactly fair to someone who is just missing a giant and a BHS on beam.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

I guess it's all in the gyms philosophy and what they have figured out over the years works for them and their gym, as well as what they want for (and from) their gymnasts. Those decisions are always made from the mindset of what will be best for the gymnast as they go on to higher levels, and our gym is really big on working progressive skills. There are individual allowances made on a case by case basis but the "requirements" set by HC are reasonable and there is no negative atmosphere surrounding those at all. We work hard to get all the gymnasts to those goals for the level they want to be, and also make them take ownership of their gymnastics. Some of the skills are requirements for certain levels (even if USAG does not mandate them), some are simply HCs preference but adjustments can be made. For L7 for instance, a BHS-BHS is vastly preferred for all the girls but they will be allowed to do HS-BHS, BWO-BHS or even FWO-FHS if necessary.
I am completely comfortable with how the gym is ran and I don't feel like any gymnasts are being pushed out of gymnastics. They are being held to certain standards and if they're not ready, they're not ready. Nothing shameful about spending an extra year at L5! We are not by any means some power gym who sweeps everything, but we like to have our gymmies represent themselves well with confidence and competence.

 

[Gymmommy71]

But then the FHS vault is only out of a 9.8 and a series or flight is required on beam and on floor, they need a B salto or second acro series.
That isn't exactly fair to someone who is just missing a giant and a BHS on beam.

It's also not fair to the true Platinum Xcels as I assume these ex-JO's who couldn't quite get their giant or beam BHS in time are doing a lot more hours and have had much more focus on perfect technique up to that point than the typical Platinum Xcel. There's a gym in my area that does this - throws high hour JOs who are missing a few skills into XCel instead of having them repeat levels - ummm...yeah, no wonder theirs XCels always win :/. And no wonder all their 7's, 8's, 9's, etc. have all their skills cause if they don't they are doing Platinum or Diamond!

I'm pretty sure XCel wasn't created to be a JO skills purgatory :/.

 

[ascarter1]

It's also not fair to the true Platinum Xcels as I assume these ex-JO's who couldn't quite get their giant or beam BHS in time are doing a lot more hours and have had much more focus on perfect technique up to that point than the typical Platinum Xcel. There's a gym in my area that does this - throws high hour JOs who are missing a few skills into XCel instead of having them repeat levels - ummm...yeah, no wonder theirs XCels always win :/. And no wonder all their 7's, 8's, 9's, etc. have all their skills cause if they don't they are doing Platinum or Diamond!

I'm pretty sure XCel wasn't created to be a JO skills purgatory :/.

Our gym quit xcel bc of this reason! My dd has always been jo but our hc said it was disheartening to loose meet after meet to gyms who follow this protocol.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Not really... No giant + no BHS on beam = Platinum (assuming they have the floor skills)

So keeping them out of JO.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

It's also not fair to the true Platinum Xcels as I assume these ex-JO's who couldn't quite get their giant or beam BHS in time are doing a lot more hours and have had much more focus on perfect technique up to that point than the typical Platinum Xcel. :/.

Assuming is not a good thing.

We have gyms around here that do lower hours for their Xcel teams than their JO teams. But their Xcel teams do more hours than our JO team does. And our lower hour JO team routinely competes against high hour JO teams.

We are a low hour gym and we do JO and other programs, Xcel in the past, IGC.
Coaches like progression of compulsories and flexibility of programs allowing options. But we have one team. 2 seasons.

Their philosophy is a BHS is a BHS. There is no Xcel BHS, JO BHS, IGC BHS.
It's a BHS, and it should be done well, you work towards getting it perfected no matter what program you do it in. Same for giants. Giants are giants.