WAG Nationals question

[gym_dad32608]

I am just playing devils advocate in this discussion, because it is always interesting every year. Remember, this is a subjectively judged sport. And a 36 in one region is not necessarily a 36 in another (lord knows we see this in NCAA). That would be one of my initial concerns about some arbitrary score cut-off. What about allocating slots based upon % of USAG gymnasts in the state/region? So California might have 30% of the L10 gymnasts so they get 30% of the slots? Or maybe a step-wise allocation, like every state or region gets 3 gymnasts at a minimum and then the rest is allocated based on percentage?

Having a Eastern/Western isn't bad idea, but Im not sure I can $tomach another big meet added on to the already seemingly long season lol.

 

[gym_dad32608]

I think USAG should then question WHY nationals is about a battle of some arbitrary regions that aren’t evenly matched anyway. Region 2 doesn’t even have enough girls to fill out half of most of its age groups for example.

Does anyone even really care what region won? I’ve never once looked it up or cared, but I definitely look to see how all the girls I know did.

Do away with the region competition and change the purpose to be the best of the best in the USA. Make qualifying % based with a higher minimum score and equal age groups at regionals. Then reset age groups again at nationals based on who qualifies.

I agree, it may be a remnant from when USAG thought DP or JO was more a "fun" low stress gymnastics and elite was more for the high stakes competition, before college gymnastics really started to grow and excel wasn't an option.

 

[josie55]

As others have pointed out, this comes up every year and every year there are lots of suggestions but it ultimately comes down to the powers that be (the regions) not having an interest or motivation in changing it.

IMHO what might force a change some day would be the colleges. They do have an interest in Nationals being a place where the very best level 10s go, not only for their own recruiting purposes, but also for bragging rights. College programs post on their instagrams which recruits are at Nationals and when they win/place. On their athlete bio pages, they include National titles. College Gym News uses National titles in their rankings of "best recruiting classes" etc .
So when a top college sees their recruits miss out on going to Nationals because of the way the system is structured, I have to imagine they find it frustrating. I can think of one top program in particular this year where several of their senior recruits did not qualify, despite scoring really well, due to being in a really tough age group in a really strong region.

I wonder if that will at some point influence a change? I mean, certainly they have more sway that us parents do

Or maybe they don't care as much as we do. Ha.

 

[duyetanh]

From what I understand, they dont pull girls from other regions to compete as all-stars. Remember, the all-stars competition is for individuals, versus the DP nationals is intended to be a competition between regions. The regions that cannot fill their slots are then allocated girls from other regions since they want an even number of competitors between regions. The regions know/knew in advance of the regional championship how many girls they were going to send to other regions for the different age groups. The regions are allocated a certain number of spots for all-star competitors but I don't think they need to fill them since all-stars are not representing regions, I don't think they even get regional leos.

They do get thee regional Leo’s, girls on our team last year were specialists and got them.

 

[duyetanh]

In Region 8 there are some girls with a 38+ score that are not in the national team. I hope they all get the chance to compete all around at nationals...

Ditto with ther regions as well. Just sucks all the way around

 

[duyetanh]

Last year it looks like the all stars competed in the short sleeve regional leo. Same one the level 9s use.

Yeah not sure what to think, but a girl in our team made it as a specialist and they wouldn’t give her the level 9 Leo…they said hers would be picked up at the meet. So, idk

 

[mom2newgymnast]

I know it's frustrating for those that didn't make it, especially seeing some that did with lower scores or smaller number of competitors. Definitely not "fair". But as someone who's daughter qualified in a less competitive age group (I think maybe there were some uncharacteristic falls?) in a competitive region, we are thrilled that she qualified! It just so happened that on this day, at this meet, she earned her qualifying spot by finishing in the top 7 with what some might consider a low score. We all recognize that she benefited from some luck, but she still had a solid meet with no falls or major mistakes and she earned her spot. So proud of her!

 

[gym_dad32608]

I know it's frustrating for those that didn't make it, especially seeing some that did with lower scores or smaller number of competitors. Definitely not "fair". But as someone who's daughter qualified in a less competitive age group (I think maybe there were some uncharacteristic falls?) in a competitive region, we are thrilled that she qualified! It just so happened that on this day, at this meet, she earned her qualifying spot by finishing in the top 7 with what some might consider a low score. We all recognize that she benefited from some luck, but she still had a solid meet with no falls or major mistakes and she earned her spot. So proud of her!

That's awesome and well-deserved. It is about competing on that day. And going 4 for 4 will almost surely put you in the top 5 or close to it, all the time at this level. Mine was cruising along to one of the top overall scores in the region and then fell on one of her best events.... I swear that child likes to keep it interesting. lol

 

[gym_dad32608]

They do get thee regional Leo’s, girls on our team last year were specialists and got them.

As was pointed out earlier, they dont get the competition leo, they get the short sleeve competition leo.

 

[GymnastMomX2]

Yeah not sure what to think, but a girl in our team made it as a specialist and they wouldn’t give her the level 9 Leo…they said hers would be picked up at the meet. So, idk

oh yea they all get them at the meet(s)

 

[JBS]

Remember, this is a subjectively judged sport. And a 36 in one region is not necessarily a 36 in another

So make it a 35 then… either way… those scores will not be competitive at Nationals. Most of the time the scores don’t drop out of the 37’s until half way through the field at Nationals.

 

[duyetanh]

As was pointed out earlier, they dont get the competition leo, they get the short sleeve competition leo.

Obviously this region doesn’t get it then.

 

[iola]

That's awesome and well-deserved. It is about competing on that day. And going 4 for 4 will almost surely put you in the top 5 or close to it, all the time at this level. Mine was cruising along to one of the top overall scores in the region and then fell on one of her best events.... I swear that child likes to keep it interesting. lol

I dont' think hitting 4 of 4 is enough in some Regions in some age groups, unless hitting means a 9.5+ Score on every event...

 

[GymnastMomX2]

Obviously this region doesn’t get it then.

All the girls from ALL regions receive their competition leos when they get to Nationals/Westerns/Easterns. No one has their leotard yet.

 

[gym_dad32608]

I dont' think hitting 4 of 4 is enough in some Regions in some age groups, unless hitting means a 9.5+ Score on every event...

It was more of a general statement. As with everything there are always exceptions, but in general. I have seen enough competitions in L10 in region 8 where more times than not if you go 4 for 4 you will be a top finisher. Of course regionals and nationals might require a little more

 

[gym_dad32608]

So make it a 35 then… either way… those scores will not be competitive at Nationals. Most of the time the scores don’t drop out of the 37’s until half way through the field at Nationals.

Why not make it a 37 then? I mean if we are only interested in the best competing.....Or go the other way and make it a 34 since they will drop out anyway? I guarantee either way there will be people that will call it unfair and have something to complain about it.

 

[Coach Kate]

I have absolutely no dog in this fight - I don't coach anymore, and I never coached 10s, and our daughter won't be doing gymnastics to this extent - but this has been a very interesting conversation for me to follow, so thanks for all the discussion here.

 

[JBS]

Having a Eastern/Western isn't bad idea, but Im not sure I can $tomach another big meet added on to the already seemingly long season lol.

I'm sure most clubs would just cut a meet out of their schedule... but I hear you on this point.

And a 36 in one region is not necessarily a 36 in another

True... but this stabilizes with a 4 judge panel. This is why you just make the cut-off score low enough to not factor in to Nationals.

IMHO what might force a change some day would be the colleges.

Doubt it... USAG doesn't really seem to care about the colleges and vice versa.

Why not make it a 37 then? I mean if we are only interested in the best competing.....Or go the other way and make it a 34 since they will drop out anyway? I guarantee either way there will be people that will call it unfair and have something to complain about it.

Maybe here or on Facebook people will complain... but not in the real world. If a coach is going to complain about their 34 AA L10 not making the cut... they are going to be lumped into that realm of coaches that don't have a clue.

But sure... you could make it a 34.0... you could even make it all L10's qualify... but then Regionals wouldn't really be a "qualifier". The point is... there are meets with 4,000+ athletes... so running Westerns / Easterns with 2,000 athletes each wouldn't be an issue. Actually... more people would bid on running the meets as it would make money then.

What about allocating slots based upon % of USAG gymnasts in the state/region? So California might have 30% of the L10 gymnasts so they get 30% of the slots? Or maybe a step-wise allocation, like every state or region gets 3 gymnasts at a minimum and then the rest is allocated based on percentage?

This will not really fix the "best of the best" issue. What if Region 2 all of the sudden had the 25 best L10's in the Nation but they only got 15 spots? Putting all the athletes... or ½ and ½ (Westerns / Easterns)... head to head in an extra qualifier would basically fix the issue.

 

[duyetanh]

All the girls from ALL regions receive their competition leos when they get to Nationals/Westerns/Easterns. No one has their leotard yet.

Exactly my point. Perhaps it was the person in charge who handed the gear out that didn’t get it. I let my friend know

 

[duyetanh]

I dont' think hitting 4 of 4 is enough in some Regions in some age groups, unless hitting means a 9.5+ Score on every event...

You are correct. In our region hitting 4 for 4 honestly means nothing. But for other regions hitting 3 for 4 means you still go. And in other regions hitting 35 means you go. Just depends on the region. Is what it is