WAG Nutrition component of coaching

[B.Gold]

Do you have a source to help us understand understand over what time frame violence and aggression has increased in our country in relation to the addition of different foods into our diets?

Most humans can eat gluten. Some people can't, but humans have been eating gluten for a long time. Reliable record keeping about per capita crime statistics wouldn't even go back that far.

Dr. Perlmutter makes the connection in his well researched book. And evolutionarily, humans haven't been eating gluten for very long.

BUT....I'm not advocating any one give anything up in their diet. I did, reluctantly and kind of by mistake, but its profoundly changed my life. I dont want my dd to hear a nutritionist, that I didn't choose, discuss Macros because my experience may not correlate with how they present the material.

I share my story, and my very positive personal experience, to try to make the argument that I don't want my choice of healthcare provider, and a nutritionist is a healthcare provider, being chosen by my dds' teachers or coaches. Certainly their opinions carry a lot of weight and have tremendous merit, but we can all agree, as parents we have our own ideas from our own experiences, we are our children's best advocates and we should have the last say.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I would even go as far as to say some of the increased aggression, and violence we are seeing more and more in our country, is linked to our flawed diet.

I have done a lot of the same reading you have done. And I wouldn't be linking your above statement without some source.
And apparently you don't have one.

Clearly your body, your kids body you have absolute power. But I wouldn't be slamming everyone elses choices either.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

If my coaches had their way we would all be vegetarians. They are smart folks. They understand nutrition but their choice is not about nutrition. I respect their choice, its just not ours. So I deal with their suggestions during gym camp. Nothing wrong with a meatless Monday (we do it here) or eating more legumes. But vegetarian, is not a choice my family makes.
They have theirs, we have ours.

 

[GymCMLA]

So earlier this week the "zone" diet list came home... page 3-4 of this http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/cfjissue21_May04.pdf
They were told to eat 3 blocks (of each group carb, protein and fat) for 3 meals and 3 snacks.
I told DD that I was not comfortable with her participating in the activity and to not worry about it (I am an MD and the zone is not nutritionally sound, not adequate for an athlete or an adolescent (the 3 blocks of each 3 times a day calculates to 1300 kcal/day...not ok) She said coach said "we're not worried about calories" when a kid asked about calories. But yet the blocks he assigned for everyone in the group (aged 10-18, ranging from 55 lbs-115lbs, all got the same allotment) do not provide appropriate calories, calcium, iron etc.
Tonight they were told they cannot have beef on their tacos, only ground turkey. Told only to eat egg white (3) for breakfast with a waffle and 1/2 a banana. and lunch was to be turkey with mayo on lettuce (no bread) with carrots ad grapes, snack was to be a cheese stick and chips????
This is not seeming ok. I know I am going off what my preteen says, but it is nonetheless what she is hearing. I don't want her hearing any of this. I'm not sure why this is a focus of practice 2-3 times a week. (it is a "rotation" DD said it is to fuel them well to practice better. Sigh.... I am new to the gym and I am not sure how to approach coach. I wasn't going to after the paper came home and just take the "we are not participating" but now I think I need to say something. This is not ok....trying to find a good way to talk to him
We really jus to eat when you are hungry, stop when full and make good choices at our house.

 

[B.Gold]

I have done a lot of the same reading you have done. And I wouldn't be linking your above statement without some source.
And apparently you don't have one.

Clearly your body, your kids body you have absolute power. But I wouldn't be slamming everyone elses choices either.

I named a source.... Do you have the book? I'll go back and reference the page numbers and paragraphs. And let me know where in any of my posts that I slammed anybody's choices please. If I did that it was unintentional and I apologize if any one feels slammed. I was only hoping in sharing my personal story someone would benefit. But I learned my lesson. Thanks idw4mlo

 

[twinmomma]

So earlier this week the "zone" diet list came home... page 3-4 of this http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/cfjissue21_May04.pdf
They were told to eat 3 blocks (of each group carb, protein and fat) for 3 meals and 3 snacks.
I told DD that I was not comfortable with her participating in the activity and to not worry about it (I am an MD and the zone is not nutritionally sound, not adequate for an athlete or an adolescent (the 3 blocks of each 3 times a day calculates to 1300 kcal/day...not ok) She said coach said "we're not worried about calories" when a kid asked about calories. But yet the blocks he assigned for everyone in the group (aged 10-18, ranging from 55 lbs-115lbs, all got the same allotment) do not provide appropriate calories, calcium, iron etc.
Tonight they were told they cannot have beef on their tacos, only ground turkey. Told only to eat egg white (3) for breakfast with a waffle and 1/2 a banana. and lunch was to be turkey with mayo on lettuce (no bread) with carrots ad grapes, snack was to be a cheese stick and chips????
This is not seeming ok. I know I am going off what my preteen says, but it is nonetheless what she is hearing. I don't want her hearing any of this. I'm not sure why this is a focus of practice 2-3 times a week. (it is a "rotation" DD said it is to fuel them well to practice better. Sigh.... I am new to the gym and I am not sure how to approach coach. I wasn't going to after the paper came home and just take the "we are not participating" but now I think I need to say something. This is not ok....trying to find a good way to talk to him
We really jus to eat when you are hungry, stop when full and make good choices at our house.

Whoa. I would be having a "we need to speak NOW" kind of meeting with the gym owner/HC/coach in charge who handed this out. This is NOT ok. You're right. Talk about overstepping. And part of my response would be to say if you want me buying ground turkey instead of ground beef you need to lower my gym fees in order for me to afford this. Ok ok, I'm only half joking. But you're right. This isn't ok. I'm interested in the follow up on this.

 

[twinmomma]

I named a source.... Do you have the book? I'll go back and reference the page numbers and paragraphs. And let me know where in any of my posts that I slammed anybody's choices please. If I did that it was unintentional and I apologize if any one feels slammed. I was only hoping in sharing my personal story someone would benefit. But I learned my lesson. Thanks idw4mlo

For what it's worth I didn't see you slamming ANYONE'S choices at all. I feel that you were very respectful.

 

[cbifoja]

I'm another in the "my kid, my decision" camp. My DD is on meds that obliterate her appetite. I would feed that kid pure cream, bacon, cheese sauce on everything to put weight on her. Her lack of eating/appetite is bad enough that the cafeteria workers at her school approached her and then her teacher about suspecting she had an ED. Her teacher explained and things have been fine.

To add to the fun, she's exceptionally picky and likes very few vegetables or fruits. I've presented tons of them to her at various points in her life but she has never taken a liking to them. I know there are parents who judge me for what my kid eats but honestly, I'm doing the best I can. I'm a single mom who works two jobs and runs a competitive gymnast to practice five days a week.

I leave my house at 7AM, get a 20 minute lunch, pick my kid up from school and drive 45 minutes to gym. She then works out until almost 9PM followed by a 30 minute drive home. There are some days I buy her fast food twice a day. Am I proud? No. But again, I'm doing the best I can.

She's an energetic young lady, who gets glowing remarks from her pediatrician every year. We'd all like her to weigh a bit more but I'm so over mommy guilt.

 

[gymdog]

So earlier this week the "zone" diet list came home... page 3-4 of this http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/cfjissue21_May04.pdf
They were told to eat 3 blocks (of each group carb, protein and fat) for 3 meals and 3 snacks.
I told DD that I was not comfortable with her participating in the activity and to not worry about it (I am an MD and the zone is not nutritionally sound, not adequate for an athlete or an adolescent (the 3 blocks of each 3 times a day calculates to 1300 kcal/day...not ok) She said coach said "we're not worried about calories" when a kid asked about calories. But yet the blocks he assigned for everyone in the group (aged 10-18, ranging from 55 lbs-115lbs, all got the same allotment) do not provide appropriate calories, calcium, iron etc.
Tonight they were told they cannot have beef on their tacos, only ground turkey. Told only to eat egg white (3) for breakfast with a waffle and 1/2 a banana. and lunch was to be turkey with mayo on lettuce (no bread) with carrots ad grapes, snack was to be a cheese stick and chips????
This is not seeming ok. I know I am going off what my preteen says, but it is nonetheless what she is hearing. I don't want her hearing any of this. I'm not sure why this is a focus of practice 2-3 times a week. (it is a "rotation" DD said it is to fuel them well to practice better. Sigh.... I am new to the gym and I am not sure how to approach coach. I wasn't going to after the paper came home and just take the "we are not participating" but now I think I need to say something. This is not ok....trying to find a good way to talk to him
We really jus to eat when you are hungry, stop when full and make good choices at our house.

No. No way. This kind of focus on eating very specific items is unhealthy particularly for developing adolescents.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I'm so glad you dont, you should feel very blessed. but many people do. As well as:
ADHD, depression, ALS, autism, bone pain, weakened immunity, auto immunity disorders, migraines, Parkinson's etc, etc, etc... Science has linked gluten sensitivity to all those maladies, and many more, including schizophrenia.

Got a link to a reputable medical or scientific journal that can back this up? This sounds like a lot of questionable assertions to me, but I'm happy to revise my stance if you can present scientifically-credible evidence.

Preemptive clarification: when I say "scientifically-credible," it's not enough that the person who says it has a phD or a medical blog; I want a link to a reputable scientific or medical journal.

I would even go as far as to say some of the increased aggression, and violence we are seeing more and more in our country, is linked to our flawed diet.

First of all, the per-capita level of violence and aggression in our country has been steadily decreasing over the course of the last century (and it's been gradually decreasing worldwide since the dawn of civilization). Steven Pinker goes into more detail on this in this video.

Second of all, EVEN IF the amount of violence occurring were on the rise, there are a LOT of other potentially-influencing factors you'd have to control for before you could definitively link it to diet.

And as for cholesterol, Tuck my post away in the back of your memory, and as Alzheimers reaches epidemic levels in the coming decade, and lipitor and other statins become scrutinized, maybe you'll think..... Oh, that lady on CB wasn't so crazy. . Our brains are created to last our lifetime, not peter out around 70

Keep in mind that a "natural" human life span is about 40 years. Evolution does not care one iota what happens to your brain and body once you're past reproductive age, so the fact that there exist healthy people over age 70 at all is a stunningly strong positive statement about how much healthier we've gotten since moving past our paleolithic roots.

.... Again, I can't recommend Grain Brain, Dr. David Perlmutter enough.

This David Perlmutter? Other reputable experts in the field have the following to say about his book: "Perlmutter is way ahead of any justifiable conclusion" and many of his claims are "wildly preposterous".

 

[Sari]

Keep in mind that a "natural" human life span is about 40 years. Evolution does not care one iota what happens to your brain and body once you're past reproductive age, so the fact that there exist healthy people over age 70 at all is a stunningly strong positive statement about how much healthier we've gotten since moving past our paleolithic roots.

I'm not versed enough in scientific studies concerning your other points, but here you're pretty much doing the same thing you're accusing @B.Gold of, as in linking a complex matter (increasing human lifespan) to one factor (leaving our paleolithic roots behind).

But there are so many other factors playing into this, for instance advancement of medical knowledge (i.e. curing formerly deadly diseases, the development of vaccines, sterile treatments, also general access to this knowledge due to the media) and technology (i.e. access to clean water at all times in First World countries, safer transportation to get from point A to B).

Now if by leaving our roots behind you mean these factors (and others, I just typed what came to mind, not really inclined to browse the library for scientific proof at 8 am), I'll wholeheartedly agree with you.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I'm not versed enough in scientific studies concerning your other points, but here you're pretty much doing the same thing you're accusing @B.Gold of, as in linking a complex matter (increasing human lifespan) to one factor (leaving our paleolithic roots behind).

The fact that our life spans have gotten dramatically longer on average over the past ten thousand years or so

But there are so many other factors playing into this, for instance advancement of medical knowledge (i.e. curing formerly deadly diseases, the development of vaccines, sterile treatments, also general access to this knowledge due to the media) and technology (i.e. access to clean water at all times in First World countries, safer transportation to get from point A to B).

Now if by leaving our roots behind you mean these factors (and others, I just typed what came to mind, not really inclined to browse the library for scientific proof at 8 am), I'll wholeheartedly agree with you.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant. Apologies if I wasn't clear. By "leaving our paleolithic roots behind," what I'm referring to is everything that's happened over the last 12 thousand years or so. Technology, medicine, agriculture, clean water, declining violence, etc. In short, civilization.

 

[B.Gold]

Got a link to a reputable medical or scientific journal that can back this up? This sounds like a lot of questionable assertions to me, but I'm happy to revise my stance if you can present scientifically-credible evidence.

The only stance I'm trying to revise is I don't want nutrition taught to my dd at gym.

Dr. Permutter's book is very well referenced. There are 30 pages of references at the end of the book. I encourage you to check them out.

I've had a profound experience by changing my diet. I know friends and neighbors who have had similar experiences. One of my neighbors experience is so unbelievable that if I shared it you'd jump on me again. This book is one of the books that has helped me make sense of these experiences.

Once again, my only other goal of posting was to possibly inspire someone along the way. I've learned my lesson. I'll go back to water down posts that agree with everything the OP writes. Yay!!! Your dd got her kip, and good job staying away from the gym.... Way to go.... Or maybe I'll just stay away from CB. I'm feeling I've just about gotten everything I've needed from this forum....

 

[z2akids]

The only stance I'm trying to revise is I don't want nutrition taught to my dd at gym.

Dr. Permutter's book is very well referenced. There are 30 pages ouof references at the end of the book. I encourage you to check them out.

Once again, my only other goal of posting was to possibly inspire someone along the way. I've learned my lesson. I'll go back to water down posts that agree with everything the OP writes. Yay!!! Your dd got her kip, and good job staying away from the gym.... Way to go.... Or maybe I'll just stay away from CB. I'm feeling I've just about gotten everything I've needed from this forum....

Posting on a public forum opens you up to comments regardless of whether you are an OP on not. This holds true especially when you put forth an idea that is in stark contrast to prevailing scientific opinion.

As for Dr. Permutter, what little I have read of him and about him does not inspire confidence. While my nutritional education is personally limited to two college courses I took for my nursing degree and my various bio and physiology courses, I do not find him to be a credible source of information, in part because his opinoon has done a 180 since some of his earlier books.

Disagreement on a discussion board isn't a reason to leave. Hopefully you will not leave because others disagree with the validity of the science you put out there.

 

[GymCMLA]

And now an email about MLM supplements...recommending we consider buying them for our children. (not rec on the company website for people <18, one has 120 mg caffeine....sigh) It also said we could buy cheaper protein powder at Kroger or GNC instead of the MLM company's shakes as they are pricey. But said not to use "weigh" protein. (It's Whey, not weight; it and caesin are milk proteins.)
@JBS @dunno @coachp @gymdog @Short Balding Guy @gracyomalley Do I talk to the coach? Email my concerns? My DD is relatively new there; I do not know how feedback that disagrees/questions what they are doing will be taken. Our last gym had a lot of emotional abuse and there was retaliation towards the gymnast if a parent sent an email. I do not know if that is making me gun shy or if I have real reason to not say anything and just talk to my DD about not listening to them about the nutrition stuff. (But I hate to tell her not to listen to coaches about 1 thing while expecting her to trust them for everything that's really gymnastics training related)
dunno, I think you know this coach pretty well. So, I'd value you input here or in a PM if you have time.

 

[sce]

@gracyomalley Do I talk to the coach? Email my concerns? My DD is relatively new there; I do not know how feedback that disagrees/questions what they are doing will be taken. Our last gym had a lot of emotional abuse and there was retaliation towards the gymnast if a parent sent an email. I do not know if that is making me gun shy or if I have real reason to not say anything and just talk to my DD about not listening to them about the nutrition stuff. (But I hate to tell her not to listen to coaches about 1 thing while expecting her to trust them for everything that's really gymnastics training related)
dunno, I think you know this coach pretty well. So, I'd value you input here or in a PM if you have time.

E-mail the coach, now. This is really not an appropriate recommendation and could be dangerous for kids. These supplements are not even regulated by the FDA.

I would specifically share your concern about wanting to tell you child to listen to her coach, but that you cannot tell her to listen to these sorts of instructions, that this crosses the line your child's nutrition is ultimately up to you.

 

[gymdog]

And now an email about MLM supplements...recommending we consider buying them for our children. (not rec on the company website for people <18, one has 120 mg caffeine....sigh) It also said we could buy cheaper protein powder at Kroger or GNC instead of the MLM company's shakes as they are pricey. But said not to use "weigh" protein. (It's Whey, not weight; it and caesin are milk proteins.)
@JBS @dunno @coachp @gymdog @Short Balding Guy @gracyomalley Do I talk to the coach? Email my concerns? My DD is relatively new there; I do not know how feedback that disagrees/questions what they are doing will be taken. Our last gym had a lot of emotional abuse and there was retaliation towards the gymnast if a parent sent an email. I do not know if that is making me gun shy or if I have real reason to not say anything and just talk to my DD about not listening to them about the nutrition stuff. (But I hate to tell her not to listen to coaches about 1 thing while expecting her to trust them for everything that's really gymnastics training related)
dunno, I think you know this coach pretty well. So, I'd value you input here or in a PM if you have time.

If dunno knows the coach I would pm him and see what he knows. Otherwise I'm torn, it might be best to just abandon ship. This seems fairly extreme to me and it could be just the start.

 

[saddlupasb]

Some people just like to think they are correct all of the time I guess.

I coach kids for 3 1/2 to 4 hours at a time. Asking them to not eat junk food during that time frame really shouldn't be a problem or risk damaging them. I'll take the risk of not being politically correct to help them become thoughtful young people.

 

[sce]

Some people just like to think they are correct all of the time I guess.

I coach kids for 3 1/2 to 4 hours at a time. Asking them to not eat junk food during that time frame really shouldn't be a problem or risk damaging them. I'll take the risk of not being politically correct to help them become thoughtful young people.

You seem to be the one that thinks their correct all the time though?!?
How is telling 5 or 6yo not eat the food their parents has provided them, making them a thoughtful young person? Also, did you completely miss my statements about the varying dietary needs of children? I will repeat my example, my ds had teammate with a lot of food allergies. Plain Lays chips, which you would probably disprove of, were a regular snack for him. It's one of the few packaged foods he could safely eat and get a carb and fat kick. Do you deny that kids need carbs mid practice? Also, this kid had few sources of fat and needed it to grow.

Also, gymnasts have a string desire to please their coach. In an effort to please you a kid may greatly alter their diet, due to comments you make about their snacks. This can lead to an eating disorder. See these are kids, not adults, and they are quite impressionable.

Let their parents parent them. You focus on teaching them gymnastics!!!!

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

And now an email about MLM supplements...recommending we consider buying them for our children. (not rec on the company website for people <18, one has 120 mg caffeine....sigh) It also said we could buy cheaper protein powder at Kroger or GNC instead of the MLM company's shakes as they are pricey. But said not to use "weigh" protein. (It's Whey, not weight; it and caesin are milk proteins.)
@JBS @dunno @coachp @gymdog @Short Balding Guy @gracyomalley Do I talk to the coach? Email my concerns? My DD is relatively new there; I do not know how feedback that disagrees/questions what they are doing will be taken. Our last gym had a lot of emotional abuse and there was retaliation towards the gymnast if a parent sent an email. I do not know if that is making me gun shy or if I have real reason to not say anything and just talk to my DD about not listening to them about the nutrition stuff. (But I hate to tell her not to listen to coaches about 1 thing while expecting her to trust them for everything that's really gymnastics training related)
dunno, I think you know this coach pretty well. So, I'd value you input here or in a PM if you have time.

Honestly, I'd leave without looking back. This isn't a-little-bit-concerning, this is pants-on-head-crazy.