Parents Practice groups

[2G1B]

If you hear all of the time that the parents would like some communication, then you should take a step back and really ask yourself if you are communicating with them and respecting them. For me, these are my kids and it is my money. If I feel like the coaches don't respect my need to be kept just a little updated then we have an issue. Yes. It is my child's gymnastics. But I am the one who has to deal with an upset kid when s/he doesn't understand something. And I am the one making the decision for if what they are getting out if gymnastics is worth their time, my time and my money. If my child is consistently confused or unhappy I likely will decide that either gymnastics or this gym is NOT worth it. While coaches know *gymnastics* better than most parents, most parents know their kids better. It all works so much better when the parents and coaches respect the importance of each each's contributions.

 

[MaryA]

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It's hard to explain to a parent, you just have to trust the coaching community, we do this all the time.

Coaches need to be willing to share their reasoning with the parents. Yes, I trust my daughter's coaches and whatever group they put her in I'm willing to believe that they had a good reason for doing it, and I'm unlikely to question them on it, but that trust has evolved over years, and good communication is part of developing that trust. Don't ask a parent to blindly trust a coach who won't communicate with her/him.

 

[5birds]

I am a teacher. I would never put my kids in a group without explaining why to a parent.
In addition, I do also know what is good for my child. I know that she feels deflated going into meets with teammates that get more practice time and coaching than she gets. The coach tells them all of the time that he only cares about the top 3 scorers. My daughter is not that far behind in skills. It is not even about the scores. She does not score that much lower than the other girls. It is about giving her what she needs to reach her potential. She was originally with this group of girls until the gym took on 5 new gymnasts from other gyms. She was pushed down to the lower group because of numbers.
She gets very little practice time working on her level and up skills since she is with a lower level.
If a valid reason was given to me why she is not with that group, then I would not have to question the groupings.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I am a teacher. I would never put my kids in a group without explaining why to a parent.
In addition, I do also know what is good for my child. I know that she feels deflated going into meets with teammates that get more practice time and coaching than she gets. The coach tells them all of the time that he only cares about the top 3 scorers. My daughter is not that far behind in skills. It is not even about the scores. She does not score that much lower than the other girls. It is about giving her what she needs to reach her potential. She was originally with this group of girls until the gym took on 5 new gymnasts from other gyms. She was pushed down to the lower group because of numbers.
She gets very little practice time working on her level and up skills since she is with a lower level.
If a valid reason was given to me why she is not with that group, then I would not have to question the groupings.

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And here is a great example,,, someone tries to explain to a parent and they don't agree. Knowing what is good for your child emotionally has zero to do with what is good for them in skill development. It's a road that leads to nowhere. Having your coach explain to you what I already did will not accomplish anything, you have already made up your mind. Good luck...

 

[5birds]

==

And here is a great example,,, someone tries to explain to a parent and they don't agree. Knowing what is good for your child emotionally has zero to do with what is good for them in skill development. It's a road that leads to nowhere. Having your coach explain to you what I already did will not accomplish anything, you have already made up your mind. Good luck...

I have not made up my mind. Just trying to get feedback if it is normal for kids on the same level to get differing amounts of practice time. You have not explained why my daughter is in a different practice group. You don't even know my daughter. You don't know why my child is in a different group. You are making your own assumptions. I am gathering now that it is normal that there are different practice groups. I never said I was switching gyms but just wondering if is normal. I am asking from a parent's perspective.

 

[mommyof1]

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It's hard to explain to a parent, you just have to trust the coaching community, we do this all the time.

There has to be some basis for that trust, though. If the child is unhappy and not progressing, a parent is not going to be likely to trust the coach and assume that the coach has things under control and the kid is just going through a rough patch unless the coach has a previous history of success with the kid. A reasonable degree of credible communication will also go a long way towards establishing trust.

In my line of work, it is expected that I will put in a substantial amount of effort to earn my clients' trust. I spend a lot of time explaining things that can be hard to explain, over and over again. I can't just assume that my clients will trust me because I am the "expert." If I operated on that assumption, I wouldn't be nearly as effective. This is the reality for many parents who work with clients or customers, so it is natural for us to expect the same from the coaches we entrust with our children's well-being.

 

[Empowered]

In my experience as a parent, it is very normal. I have seen it at more than enough gyms to know that there is a very common practice. I really think you're stressing about nothing though, and I mean that with no disrespect.

After all these years in this sport (daughter is level 9 now), I look around my daughter's gym and I think that each kid is exactly where they should be. They are all in the right groups, with the right coaches that are getting the most out of them as an athlete, and thus allowing them to get the most out of the sport.

Putting your daughter in a different training group is not a slight to your child, and I get that you feel it's unfair, but unfortunately life, like gymnastics, isn't fair . TOPs/Hopes/Potential elite kids will always train more hours and if your kid is really young through the levels like mine but not a phenom, you'll still have to compete against them. There will always be some kid taking more privates. Some kid will always seem to get more attention or more time on the equipment.

You just have to learn, and I'd advise learning it very fast, to just let all of it go. Enjoy the ride and let your daughter do the same.

 

[NYG]

I think what would be deflating to a kid is telling them they don't matter unless they score in the top three. Not a great motivational tactic in my opinion. I woul ask the coach directly, what he ment by that.

 

[GymnastMomX2]

My guess is the "top 3" remark was probably the coach making a statement about only the top 3 scores counting towards a team award? I could easily see a comment like that being misinterpreted. Also the girls in our gym are all mixed up with training groups. Some 3s work with some 4s 1/2 the time while other 4s workout with the 6s 1/2 the time and some 6s workout with the 7s etc etc.

 

[happychaos]

I really think that all of the coaches on this forum are probably top-notch coaches who truly care about their gymnasts, and love the sport.
There are, however, many coaches who are less skilled at coaching, as well as planning practice groups and interacting with parents. In the few years my DD has been in the sport I have heard numerous stories, both online and IRL, that just make me shake my head in disbelief.
I love the idea that all coaches are invested in each individual gymnast, treat them fairly, and always do what is best for the gymnast. Unfortunately, this just isn't always the case. There are plenty of coaches that play favorites or focus only on the "top" girls.
In many cases "trust the coach" is the best advice, but not always. I think this coach owes an explanation to this family. Whether the family agrees with the coach is another matter entirely. I think you should speak with the coach. I would have a problem if my DD was at a gym that refused to speak to parents about level/group assignments.

 

[rjb123]

I think that at first I was a lot more stressed about this stuff. Over the past couple of years though I have seen that our coaches really DO know our kids and what they need, and assign them to the proper training groups. I am curious to see where she is placed for the upcoming season, but in the end I trust them that they are doing the right thing for her. I might privately ask them WHY they made this decision, (not in the gym- send an email making it clear that I trust their decision, but just wanting to know why they made it) but in the end I pay a heck of a lot of money to these folks every month based on the fact that I believe they are competent, experienced coaches who know what they are doing. So I am letting them guide this process. Lord knows if I was directing it, it would be a hot mess!! LOL.

 

[gracyomalley]

Parents asking for the "plan for their son or daughter" is not questioning the coach...but is the only way that this thing can work - if the parents are not supporting the coaches decisions at home then the kid will be getting mixed messages.

In order for parents to be able to say "do what your coach says, work hard, be enthusiastic, don't eat candy and drink soda and stay up late at sleepovers, keep up with your school work so you don't have to miss practice, skip that birthday party to go to that meet that you KNOW you won't score great at, etc..." we need to be on board! This is an expensive sport and requires a great deal of dedication. I would expect the percentage of high achieving type A parents is a little on the high end, too....which means we WANT INFORMATION!!!! But most parents whose kids stay in gym more than a few years learn to trust the coaches, learn that their wonderful child has strengths and weaknesses, good years and bad years...etc. And we see the other kids at the gym too, so we can "judge" coaching decisions with regards to more than just our own little stars... if we feel the need (and who with a child doesn't want to be wise about the adults in that child's life?).

At work I often spend far more time explaining what I recommend with this SE class of parents (and face it, gym is so pricey the SE status of most families is middle and up)...even though I have 11 years of medical training and 16 years of experience - I still have to DEMONSTRATE that knowledge and be willing to communicate. I understand that this may not be most coaches favorite part, or an area they are skilled in - but if you work with kids you work with parents and need to be willing set aside time to communicate.

Coaches absolutely should set the rules as to how this communication occurs - no curbside "why isn't Suzy doing her kip...". Some parents just won't ever get it...but most will and then can be an active part of the team - the coach is not there for 20 of the 24 hours a day, you know!! For instance, a coach being misunderstood by a child about top scorers can be easily rectified if the parent has already discussed the coaches plan for the child...the parent can guide the child to get clarifications, and help to maintain the child's trust in the coach...

 

[happychaos]

Parents asking for the "plan for their son or daughter" is not questioning the coach...but is the only way that this thing can work - if the parents are not supporting the coaches decisions at home then the kid will be getting mixed messages.

In order for parents to be able to say "do what your coach says, work hard, be enthusiastic, don't eat candy and drink soda and stay up late at sleepovers, keep up with your school work so you don't have to miss practice, skip that birthday party to go to that meet that you KNOW you won't score great at, etc..." we need to be on board! This is an expensive sport and requires a great deal of dedication. I would expect the percentage of high achieving type A parents is a little on the high end, too....which means we WANT INFORMATION!!!! But most parents whose kids stay in gym more than a few years learn to trust the coaches, learn that their wonderful child has strengths and weaknesses, good years and bad years...etc. And we see the other kids at the gym too, so we can "judge" coaching decisions with regards to more than just our own little stars... if we feel the need (and who with a child doesn't want to be wise about the adults in that child's life?).

At work I often spend far more time explaining what I recommend with this SE class of parents (and face it, gym is so pricey the SE status of most families is middle and up)...even though I have 11 years of medical training and 16 years of experience - I still have to DEMONSTRATE that knowledge and be willing to communicate. I understand that this may not be most coaches favorite part, or an area they are skilled in - but if you work with kids you work with parents and need to be willing set aside time to communicate.

Coaches absolutely should set the rules as to how this communication occurs - no curbside "why isn't Suzy doing her kip...". Some parents just won't ever get it...but most will and then can be an active part of the team - the coach is not there for 20 of the 24 hours a day, you know!! For instance, a coach being misunderstood by a child about top scorers can be easily rectified if the parent has already discussed the coaches plan for the child...the parent can guide the child to get clarifications, and help to maintain the child's trust in the coach...

This is spot on. Perfect.

 

[sce]

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Okay, I hear this all the time from my parents. Problem is, the coaches know what she needs and you only think you know because you are basing your assumptions on performance and ability. The top scorers within a particular group are in that group because they are further along and older than your child. Your child is in her group because the is younger and not as far along and getting more basics within that group is going to do more for her in the long run.

As far as I can tell the problem is not necessarily the training group but the lack of communication. To me it's not OK to say that parents and athletes can not ask questions. Blind obedience is scary. Trust comes with people working together. The training group may not be a reason to leave but the lack of communication might be.

 

[VAgymdad]

My DD is going to be in a similar situation this fall. Our gym just instituted a homeschool program and it has thrown all the numbers out of whack. We will now have mixed compulsory groups just like optionals. My DD was the youngest level 3 (6y) last season and had a very good year. In my opinion, she proved herself at 3 by scoring 37's in her last 3 meets. She's trained level 4 all summer and is in the middle of the pack according to her coach. I haven't met with him yet, but I'm confused why she's going to a 3/4 group (only a few level 4's). I realize she is the youngest (just turned 7) and the smallest, but I'm not sure how she goes from the middle of the pack a few weeks ago to what seems to be a demotion. More importantly, I'm concerned bc all her best friends since beginning level 3 last summer have been placed in the all 4 group. She's upset and last night was the first night I didn't see a floor routine before bed. Seems like the wind has been taken out of her sails.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

coachp said: ↑
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Okay, I hear this all the time from my parents. Problem is, the coaches know what she needs and you only think you know because you are basing your assumptions on performance and ability. The top scorers within a particular group are in that group because they are further along and older than your child. Your child is in her group because the is younger and not as far along and getting more basics within that group is going to do more for her in the long run.

As far as I can tell the problem is not necessarily the training group but the lack of communication. To me it's not OK to say that parents and athletes can not ask questions. Blind obedience is scary. Trust comes with people working together. The training group may not be a reason to leave but the lack of communication might be.

There may be very valid reasons for what the coaches are doing. And a good coach should be able to explain it. It seems you coaches here don't have a problem with explanations..[/QUOTE]

Yes this. Part of coaching is communicating effectively.

Thank-you! This is what I am thinking. They won't share their reasons. They tell the girls and parents to not ask why.

That would be a deal breaker for me.

 

[VAgymdad]

Yep I saw and read that. Thanks. Just doing a little venting

 

[Anna's_Mom]

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And here is a great example,,, someone tries to explain to a parent and they don't agree. Knowing what is good for your child emotionally has zero to do with what is good for them in skill development. It's a road that leads to nowhere. Having your coach explain to you what I already did will not accomplish anything, you have already made up your mind. Good luck...

Excuse me??? My child's emotional health isn't at least as important as her physical health or skills development? Sorry, I have seen what teachers who don't value emotional health (of child AND parent) can do to a child. Not in gymnastics, thankfully, but in school. And my son spent years getting back the emotional health he lost, as well as the physical health when he tried to harm himself. And it all started with a uncaring teacher who would not answer our questions about what was going on in her classroom. Never again!

I'm very sorry, but "trust me, I know best" is not an adequate answer to a parent's question. Parents trusted priests -- and bad things happened. Parents trusted teachers -- and bad things happened. Sadly, coaches, teachers, clergy, any adult in authority can be bullies, can misuse that authority in ways big and small, and can harm children -- knowingly or unknowingly. So parents have the right to ask questions and to get answers. It is hard to explain? Tough -- that's part of your job.

 

[twinmomma]

First off, to answer the OP question about how our gym trains:

Old gym - last year's L3's were all working in the same group, some towards competing L4, and some towards scoring out and competing L5. Too many kids, too much disparity in skills for the kids to really get the instruction they needed.

New gym. Grouped by level/age for the most part. Three L3 groups, younger, middle, older. Two L4 groups, younger, older. All separate and train different days/hours. Each treated as it's own separate team (i.e. Level 4a, level 4b). Different meets or same meets different sessions. That said, there are so many 8/9 year olds in the L4 group that there are 8/9 year olds in both groups. DD is in the "older" group and is 9, and we have a few in the 13/14/15 age ranges. Not a problem for us at all, because DD actually does better with girls older than her and I think the younger group would drive her crazy.

Secondly, to the point of "blindly trust the coach" I think another poster said it very well when they said that coaches posting here I think we all believe to be good at what they do and committed to the kids they coach in the right ways. But that isn't always the case. It's like saying all teachers are awesome, all police are good, all lawyers are bad, all doctors are right, etc... We can no more make those general statements about those professions than we can about coaches. And it's NOT unreasonable to be communicated with as a parent on the plan for your child, just like I would expect from my children's teachers at school or my son's baseball coach. AND, if decisions are affecting a child's confidence or feeling part of the team, that's a problem. And it needs to be addressed. It may be something VERY simple, for sure, but these are CHILDREN, not robots, and their emotional needs are a million times more important than whether or not they get their flyaway in time for competition.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

The thread is about groupings.... Not sure how it evolved into "the sky is falling"...

Excuse me??? My child's emotional health isn't at least as important as her physical health or skills development? Sorry, I have seen what teachers who don't value emotional health (of child AND parent) can do to a child. Not in gymnastics, thankfully, but in school. And my son spent years getting back the emotional health he lost, as well as the physical health when he tried to harm himself. And it all started with a uncaring teacher who would not answer our questions about what was going on in her classroom. Never again!

I'm very sorry, but "trust me, I know best" is not an adequate answer to a parent's question. Parents trusted priests -- and bad things happened. Parents trusted teachers -- and bad things happened. Sadly, coaches, teachers, clergy, any adult in authority can be bullies, can misuse that authority in ways big and small, and can harm children -- knowingly or unknowingly. So parents have the right to ask questions and to get answers. It is hard to explain? Tough -- that's part of your job.

Your child emotional health is important but being in a group isn't exactly a traumatic experience.....