WAG Question about repeating a level

[Flyaway]

At your gym, if a gymnast repeats a compulsory level, what is the plan for her? What are the goals? Does she train with the incoming gymnasts at that level and just repeatedly run those skills? Or does she spend time uptraining anyway? Is the goal to get her on the podium? Or something else? I know every gym is different and I'm trying to get a picture of how repeating a level can be beneficial and maximize a gymnast's potential.

My gymmie will likely repeat level 3 this season, and while I'm in agreement that that is probably best for her, I want to make sure we're not just wasting a year. But I don't know what's normal and what is typical in situations like this.

Thank you!

 

[sce]

At our gym, girls repeat if they are not showing proficiency at a level. For level 3 this could be a shaky backhandspring, inconsistent bars skills etc. The repeaters train with the new level 3 girls, but is given opportunities to uptrain where they are ready.

To move up, girls are typically expected to make at minimum the state qualifying score, as well as show proficiency in skills. is ay this, as we had girls get the AA score, but no move up. For example one girls does not have her backhandspring.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

At our gym they up train. And they don't move up if they don't have the next level skills. And our gym doesn't score out compulsories. So L4, 5 and 6 is for a season. Not sure about optionals we are not there yet.

Our Level 3s have been working Level 4 and Level 5 skills for a quite awhile. My daughter had all her Level 4 skills except her kip, last year so she was level 3 this year. But if L3s don't have a kip soon, they won't move. They will still up train, but they will remain L3. Quite honestly I have not seen that happen yet do to the up training. All our Level 3 girls have all their Level 4 except one who doesn't have her kip yet. I would expect her to have it by August when the final decision is made. But if she doesn't she will stay Level 3.

 

[AgingHippie]

At our gym you need a 36 to move up. They do not usually up train if you are repeating a level.

 

[Flyaway]

At our gym you need a 36 to move up. They do not usually up train if you are repeating a level.

So in this case, if a gymmie scores a 36 and moves up to level 4, but doesn't have her kip by the start of the season, what happens? And how long do they have to get the next level skills if they don't up train? Just the off season?

 

[2G1B]

At our old gym there was a minimum score required to move up. If you got that, you THEN (after the end of season) started working the next level skills. Very, very little uptraining was done until after state. Then they had until the start of the next season to get their skills. My DD moved up to 4 and was the last of the team to get her kip. We expected her to scratch bars at the first meet; but she ended up getting the kip 2 weeks before the meet. That gym's plan was that if you didn't have a skill, you would scratch until you got it (which would mean if you didn't get it you would repeat THAT level.

At their new gym they seem to do a lot of uptraining.

 

[z2akids]

My DD just finished her 2nd year of Level 3. She is completely ready for L4 now and hopefully will have a successful L4 season.

She repeated because she really wasn't ready for level 3 last year and struggled just to catch up and be able to execute the skills. When teams switched last summer, she trained with the new 3s (we only have one group per level) but, as she was ready to upgrade a skill, she got to practice those skills. She uptrained, worked kips and squat ons, ro2bhs and cartwheels on beam. Her coaches expected her to hold her beam handstands and dismount, etc.

She had a very successful 2nd second at L3. Placed first on every event at least once and was on the podium for each event and AA pretty much the whole season.

Now as the girls are uptraining, she is doing well. She had had her kip, lost it and hopefully will have it back in the next couple of weeks. In addition to full time level four skills, she is also working back tucks and back walk overs on beam, etc. As the summer progresses, she should have more opportunity to uptrain level 5 and 6 skills because ahe is not behind on her level 4 skills. That is what repeating 3 did for her. Hopefully it set her up for many years of success.

It was an important year for her. She solidified her skills, got to the point where she won't be playing catch up this season and had an oppprtunity to taste success at meets and know what she had to do to get there again.

 

[raenndrops]

From Mid-March until the end of June (plus the first two weeks in August... and 2 weeks of rec camp in July, if the gymnast comes), they work progressions for whatever is next - basically, "uptraining" even if it is KNOWN they will repeat.
Once HC submits the roster to the district office, the girls are split into their levels during practice - L3 is a group, L4/5 is a group, and all Optionals are a group.
The new to a level girls learn the routines. The experienced girls HELP teach them. During skills work, the repeaters do a routine instead and, if it is "passed" by the coach, the girl is allowed to work on the next progression on her turn. If she still has skills to work, then she works them on her turn.
Repeaters also have the option of moving up mid-season IF they get ALL the skills for the next level. Mid-season move ups will NOT happen if a girl has shaky skills, even though someone may have moved up before the season began with an equivalent skill level (because the pre-season girls have more time to work the skills before competition).

 

[hearts_and_stars]

As you said, every gym is different (and gyms evolve; that is, the move up standards can sometimes change if the gym finds a better way of doing things). Having said that, DD's gym seems to be a bit of a hybrid. Move ups are really coach's decision (a lot of parents don't like that), but it's not hard to figure out who will move and who will not (barring crazy circumstances and situations). Basically, what it comes down to for the compulsory kids is no BHS, no 3; no kips, no 4; no clear hip, no 5. Since our compulsories compete in the summer, July 1 is the cut off date. For optionals, no giants, no 7; no twists, no 8; 9 and 10 are different as girls seem to get stuck there and since DD is not there yet I have no experience to be able to comment. Optionals levels are constantly uptraining (but I think this is more due to the fact that 6 seems to be a required level for us); compulsories do not up train--instead, they work basics and complexes until the girls want to puke (if they're that far ahead) so when it comes time to actually work the up level skills, they get them pretty easily (which is always a huge confidence booster....the compulsory coaches do a great job of not telling the girls it's because of all the basics and complexes and allow them to believe they really are that good LOL).

Those are the tangibles that will cause a girl to repeat. There are a few intangibles, and I suspect this is what upsets parents when they're told their gymmie is repeating the level. Those intangibles include things like age/maturity--can they mentally handle learning the next set of skills or do they need a year to 'grow up'; attitude--are they negative Nancys, or do they stay positive, even when things get rough; work ethic--do they goof off and play around or do they put 100% into the entire practices; dedication--do they show consistent attendance, the higher the level the more time it takes to get the skills and the fewer breaks the girls can take. Very few gymnasts have all of these attributes so the coaches have to weigh who is more likely than not to be successful at the next level, not just physically, but mentally, psychologically, and emotionally as well.

Parents get upset because they sometimes see repeating a level the same as they would see repeating a grade in school. Usually, though, by the end of the repeat season the parents have changed their tune and are much more appreciative of the fact that their gymmie had a great season that might not have been had they been pushed ahead.

 

[juststartingout]

Our girls don't up train during the season within their groups. They start working the next level skills after states. This system is not easy for my daughter. Last year she struggled as a level 4 due to the kip. This year she will repeat most likely. They plan to keep her with her group and let her train level 5 and see how the summer goes. If she didn't have her kip at all I'm sure they would move her back to the incoming 4 group but since she has it but it just needs some work I think they think she will be fine training 5. She is already doing the other necessary 5 skills. She has her back and front tuck on floor, her backwalkover and full turn on beam, her vault is looking ok, and she has her baby giant and flyaway. That darned kip is just still not where it needs to be and she needs her free hip. The coaches hope to have her do 1 or 2 meets as 4 and then move on to 5. I'll be just as good if she does a whole season of level 4 I'm just glad they are letting her work on some new skills to avoid bordom. If she does a whole season of 4 they will most likely test her out of 5 next season. Our gym tends to do what is best for each individual gymnast based on the circumstances, there are no set rules which I think is best for their growth.

 

[Flyaway]

My DD just finished her 2nd year of Level 3. She is completely ready for L4 now and hopefully will have a successful L4 season.

She repeated because she really wasn't ready for level 3 last year and struggled just to catch up and be able to execute the skills. When teams switched last summer, she trained with the new 3s (we only have one group per level) but, as she was ready to upgrade a skill, she got to practice those skills. She uptrained, worked kips and squat ons, ro2bhs and cartwheels on beam. Her coaches expected her to hold her beam handstands and dismount, etc.

She had a very successful 2nd second at L3. Placed first on every event at least once and was on the podium for each event and AA pretty much the whole season.

Now as the girls are uptraining, she is doing well. She had had her kip, lost it and hopefully will have it back in the next couple of weeks. In addition to full time level four skills, she is also working back tucks and back walk overs on beam, etc. As the summer progresses, she should have more opportunity to uptrain level 5 and 6 skills because ahe is not behind on her level 4 skills. That is what repeating 3 did for her. Hopefully it set her up for many years of success.

It was an important year for her. She solidified her skills, got to the point where she won't be playing catch up this season and had an oppprtunity to taste success at meets and know what she had to do to get there again.

Thank you for sharing your dd's experience. I could have written the part about her first level 3 season word for word. I could almost argue that my dd should not have competed at all last season and instead spent another year in preteam. But regardless, it sounds like your gym's approach was successful for your dd and this is the sort of result I'm hoping will come from repeating level 3 for my dd as well..

 

[Anna's_Mom]

So in this case, if a gymmie scores a 36 and moves up to level 4, but doesn't have her kip by the start of the season, what happens? And how long do they have to get the next level skills if they don't up train? Just the off season?

This is us as well. So far all of the girls have gotten the skills they need. But we've only had a team for a couple of years, so not a long history to judge by. The girls work on the skills for the new level from December to the following October, so a fair amount of time. This year for the first time it was optional to compete in the spring (previously it hadn't been offered at all), with the understanding that you would have the skills needed if you did this. About 1/2 the team is competing. The HC is hoping to score out the L5s so they can be L6 in the fall, but L3 and L4 have no option to score out in spring -- they will still compete their current level next fall. He is very firm on the required scores to progress -- well, actually, he is very firm on all of his rules. A mixed blessing, I guess.

 

[AgingHippie]

So in this case, if a gymmie scores a 36 and moves up to level 4, but doesn't have her kip by the start of the season, what happens? And how long do they have to get the next level skills if they don't up train? Just the off season?

We do not up train but the girls get a good 5 months after States to learn the next skill. If you do not have a skill by then, say a kip, you would just scratch that event until you had what you needed to run the routine. It's not ideal but that is how they do it. I have seen girls go a half season without competing bars.

 

[mobeans]

So in this case, if a gymmie scores a 36 and moves up to level 4, but doesn't have her kip by the start of the season, what happens? And how long do they have to get the next level skills if they don't up train? Just the off season?

At our gym the gymnast would not move to L4 without a kip.

Move ups happen in early June. Our first meet is October.

Skills our gym requires to move to L4: kip, ROBHSBHS, FHS drills, vault drills (these drills are progressive and they expect they'd have the skill comp ready by Oct based on their progress thus far), cartwheel on beam, handstand on beam (held, vertical), certain conditioning skills, certain flexibility skills.

Then in June they start with their new level. If they repeat, they will be with some fellow repeating teammates from current season and the new L3s. They have the opportunity to uptrain all season as well. So, if they repeat their next opportunity to move up would be the following year.

We don't have the "36" rule but it does show proficiency at the level.

 

[Midwestmommy]

Our gym is not one of the ones that has their girls who are almost proficient at Level 7 skills competing Level 4 and trying to sweep the podium. They also do not repeat over and over without uptraining. I think they fall sort of in the middle, with lots of uptraining the offseason and a few final adjustments made close to competition season depending on how they are doing. They lay out some very specific criteria for move-ups, but I have learned that they bend the rules and really just do what they want in terms of making the best decision for each kid going into competition season. I know that is not feasible for some of the really huge gyms. The results at our gym is that I really have learned not to worry about it, and to trust the coaches that they will put her where it makes the most sense given her progress. Our gym is really good about giving the kids specific feedback about their strengths and weaknesses, and what they need to improve on to have a better shot at the next/future levels.

 

[AgingHippie]

Learning to trust the coaches is so much easier. Loved to read that.

 

[cbifoja]

I'm probably repeating past posts but since I don't believe that everyone hangs on my every word, I'm going to repeat myself. LOL sorry!

We don't have a policy at all. Our HC looks at each girl as an individual to make that call. Obviously, if the girls are missing major skills, they won't move up. But we don't have any score-associated thresholds to meet.

My DD loves to learn bigger skills and is motivated by challenges. One of her teammates is a perfectionist who is motivated by high podium placement. So mine has skipped/scored out of levels, while her teammate repeats almost every level Now, DD does stay in the 36s so she isn't sacrificing safety, but her teammate is almost always in the 37s.

 

[thefellowsmom]

Repeating done for the right reasons can be just the right thing. I would have a hard time in a gym where little uptraining happened and a score was the move up requirement. My dd repeated because she needed to and then skipped because she was ready. Our gym treats every kid as an individual and what level you compete is determined by whatever they feel is the best criteria for each girl. Kids don't move up when they aren't ready and there are requirements for move ups but they definitely aren't rigid across the board. Personality, short and long term goals and skills are all just pieces to the puzzle.

Our parents are taught early not to think about or talk about levels. They are learning gymnastics not levels. It is really rather freeing. I trust them and my dd and her coaches know where she is at and when the time comes to decide they will figure out what she will be competing next season. Really, it has nothing to do with me and I am so surprised when I hear that parents have a say in what level their kid competes. That is between gymnast and coach.

But, maybe if I were in one of the aforementioned gyms and my kid had a 36 and all her skills but was told she would have to repeat I would feel very differently, so no judgement, just grateful.

 

[thefellowsmom]

Oh sorry, one more thing for clarification. Kids are in training groups not level groups so repeating doesn't necessarily mean you have to move down a group. Most groups are multilevel to facilitate individual training plans, uptraining, group progress and development and strong team bond. Any group shuffling is done at summer schedule creation.

 

[Flyaway]

I'm not 100% sure, but it sounds like for the off-season, dd will uptrain level 4 skills, but at a lower level than some of the other 3's because she is lacking some strength and proficiency in some building block skills (ie, her ROBHS is still shaky, she's only just now hitting vertical on her beam handstand). I'm feeling like that's probably a good approach? Although I think she'll need to repeat 3 (it's SO hard for me to imagine her actually getting over the vault table for 4!), my fear was that she'd be stuck doing reps of mill circles and be bored to tears.

Are there any questions I should be asking the coach for clarification? We usually have some sort of conference at some point during the off season.