WAG Sending kids home

[John]

What many coaches fail to understand is that the gymnasts and coaches want the same thing. We want our gymnasts to be great and our gymnast want to be great. We are not fighting against the, to be great, we are working together to achieve this goal.

Kids just don't fail to go for their series because they are lazy. There is always a reason. Perhaps they are scared, fear should never be punished, it will just make the fear worse. Fear is a good healthy response to not being mentally ready to do a skill and should indicate to us that the gymnast needs to step back to drills. It could be because they don't believe they can do it, then we as coaches need to find ways to help them improve that self belief. It could be a lack of motivation, so we need to help our gymnasts find their fire.



You appear to be a very thoughtful coach. please keep it up.

 

[Mish]

@Aussie_coach you sound like a wonderful coach! Your athletes are lucky to have you!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

If it's a balking issue then this penalty will only worsen it. If she is just afraid and trying to get out of it then I would leave it alone. Big difference between the two

 

[CoachAlex]

I can only speak from personal experience as a gymnast and experience as a coach at the one gym that I have coached at for over 10 years. No, this is not done at our gym (although if girls are upset/frustrated/crying/etc they may be asked to leave the gym area to pull themselves together - NOT sent home). I am not defending it, but I think that coaches who do this may not be "out of touch" but it is probably how THEY were coached as gymnasts and think that is what works (obviously not). I have seen girls be asked to leave the gym area/the event if they are half-a**ing a skill and bailing multiple times which is dangerous. I have also seen coaches get frustrated (yes we are human, yes, coaching can be a stressful job) with an athlete at a higher level maybe not going for a skill that they have, etc., and ask the athlete to leave before everyone gets frustrated and angry. But, no this is NOT an effective coaching technique.

That being said, I think some coaches may say that and not really mean it - I remember not throwing my series on beam (hmmmm that darn series) and my coach saying something like "well fine, then just go home" - well I was 17 or 18 at the time and had a car, and I was just as mad so I was going to leave - apparently he wasn't serious and I got in more trouble for actually listening.

So cliff notes version: no not effective - and honestly, kind of a cop-out for a coach - a good coach can figure out what the real issue is and hopefully address it (sometimes its a fear, a bad day, whatever - they are kids and they are human and not every day is awesome). If this is a common occurance, then yes, I would ask to speak to the coach so they can clarify their intent, etc. You mentioned this happened at the compulsory level, so it seems like it is maybe a somewhat acceptable practice at your gym (I know another poster mentioned this was frowned upon and it was just one coach).

 

[EGPtriumph]

Lots of life skills learned in this sport. 10yo is a bit young but time for her to learn how to speak to her coach. Kids know they should not question the Coach or argue with the coach, but often think that means saying nothing. Help her know how to talk to the coach about how she is doing in those bad days. Bad days happen, but unless she speaks up the coach doesn't know that the kid is not just slacking off.

This times 1000. I know adults who don't feel confident speaking up to the coach, so I agree that a 10 year old is a bit young for this skill. The other thing is, a good coach who is in tune with his/her gymnasts should be able to tell which is a fear issue and which is a half- a$$/attitude issue. Regardless, sending a kid home in the situation that OP described is unacceptable IMO.

 

[GymMom4]

I haven't read all of the comments but do agree with those I've read.

At DD's previous gym they would get mad at kids and kick them off of an event to do conditioning if they couldn't do a skill. Never mind that the "coaching" was so awful especially on bars that it was ridiculous for them to expect kids to get a skill on their own. My dd went through setbacks and fears and had teammates go through similar things and they were belittled and shamed, sent to climb the rope multiple times or to do other conditioning. It was horrible.

At our current gym the coaches know how to work through fears, blocks, etc. by going back to basics and working back up to a skill. No conditioning as a punishment because they know how important conditioning is to gymnastics progression.

I would definitely speak up.

We did and when we and others were ignored we got the heck out of there.

ETA: Kids are rarely sent home. Only case is for major attitude issues.

 

[azara]

Sounds a bit more reasonable from the coach's point of view, but it's still not a strategy I would condone (although I'm only a low-level rec coach, so take my opinion with a large grain of salt). Aside from the excellent reasons raised by everyone else, here are two other considerations:

1. Sending a gymnast to do conditioning because they won't do a skill will equate conditioning with punishment in the eyes of the gymnast, something I personally would really want to avoid. Conditioning should not be punishment, it is necessary to grow and I want to encourage gymnasts to approach it with the attitude that it makes you stronger for the "fun stuff", not that it is punishment for not being good enough.

2. Even if the coach had the best intentions in the world, s/he did not communicate them clearly, because you got a story from your child about a monster forcing her out of the gym and do a bunch of sit ups for being so bad at beam. This does not appear to be the case, so more explanation was required for the gymnast to understand why what was going on was actually happening. Perhaps your daughter could do knowing the explanation you were given by the coach, which could ease her mind a little. Sure, you daughter should have communicated clearly to her coach, but sh/e should also have communicated with your daughter!

Those two things said, I still don't think sending a gymnast home unless they pose a danger to themselves or others is useful. There is always something else for the gymnast to do, like practising a different skill or doing a different event. If they're having a terrible day, working on basics or slightly easier skills will keep them occupied and productive without having to do conditioning or going home.

 

[Mom2Chickadee]

As a parent, going through this now, I wonder if age plays a part and if this strategy is better suited to older gymnasts? DD has two coaches, one who's a bit more "old school". Something happened over the summer where DD was crying on beam so she was told to stop crying like a baby or she'd have to go home, she did stop and did whatever it was she was supposed to do, but my DD is now completely afraid of this coach and refuses to go into the gym on days this coach is coaching her group. I have spoken to the coach about it and I know gymnastics requires firmness and crying on beam is a safety issue, but telling a just turned 9 year that she's going to be sent home certainly hasn't helped our situation...in fact if I can't figure out how to get her back into the gym with this coach my DD will have to find another sport. This strategy may work with different kids and maybe it's up to the coach to work their coaching style around the gymnast's personality, to a certain extend, but my DD is definitely one example where the threat of being sent home has backfired...miserably.

 

[wallinbl]

1. Sending a gymnast to do conditioning because they won't do a skill will equate conditioning with punishment in the eyes of the gymnast, something I personally would really want to avoid. Conditioning should not be punishment, it is necessary to grow and I want to encourage gymnasts to approach it with the attitude that it makes you stronger for the "fun stuff", not that it is punishment for not being good enough.

Not really. The statement is that you need to be working. If you have a mental block on a skill, then work something else. Conditioning is always good. It's not a punishment; it's necessary to succeed.

2. Even if the coach had the best intentions in the world, s/he did not communicate them clearly, because you got a story from your child about a monster forcing her out of the gym and do a bunch of sit ups for being so bad at beam. This does not appear to be the case, so more explanation was required for the gymnast to understand why what was going on was actually happening. Perhaps your daughter could do knowing the explanation you were given by the coach, which could ease her mind a little. Sure, you daughter should have communicated clearly to her coach, but sh/e should also have communicated with your daughter!

Maybe my kids are unique, but my kids tend to have a perception that everyone else (coaches, teachers, parents) are wrong and unreasonable, and they (my kids) are always in the right. I don't trust my kids' perceptions of situations much.

 

[MILgymFAM]

As a parent, going through this now, I wonder if age plays a part and if this strategy is better suited to older gymnasts? DD has two coaches, one who's a bit more "old school". Something happened over the summer where DD was crying on beam so she was told to stop crying like a baby or she'd have to go home, she did stop and did whatever it was she was supposed to do, but my DD is now completely afraid of this coach and refuses to go into the gym on days this coach is coaching her group. I have spoken to the coach about it and I know gymnastics requires firmness and crying on beam is a safety issue, but telling a just turned 9 year that she's going to be sent home certainly hasn't helped our situation...in fact if I can't figure out how to get her back into the gym with this coach my DD will have to find another sport. This strategy may work with different kids and maybe it's up to the coach to work their coaching style around the gymnast's personality, to a certain extend, but my DD is definitely one example where the threat of being sent home has backfired...miserably.

I would guess temperament more than age. My ODD is such a sensitive soul. Despite being a rather mature teenager in general she has been known to shed a tear from frustration and fear. Problem is that it's usually been construed as fear of the difficult skill, when in reality it's fear of the coaches or the consequences of messing up. Being belittled, threatened, conditioned, or kicked out have never, ever made it better. My YDD is a stoic and she will not cry in front of people. But she will shut down if she's being pushed too hard. Threatening to kick her out would probably motivate her, but would still sour the coach/athlete relationship.

 

[luvmygymmie]

I am struggling with a similar philosophy at my daughter's gym. If a gymnast is refusing to do a skill (most often on beam) after a period of time or a certain number of prompts, there are typically rope climbs assigned or the gymnast is told they can't move on to another skill. My daughter has been stuck on beam when she has refused to do her series for about 25 minutes-she was crying the whole time and clearly frustrated with herself. This is a skill that she has been doing successfully for several years and that day she was just feeling out of sorts with it. I just don't understand why some coaches can't wrap their head around some gymnasts just having an off day (no one can be "on" all the time). I feel like many coaches are inadvertently making kids MORE fearful of certain skills by making a bigger deal out of doing the skill-this is basic behavioral psychology.

 

[CoachAlex]

Everyone has a bad day, and that is understood, HOWEVER if this is a skill that an athlete has "had" for a while (they have competed it successfully, or had the skill consistently unspotted for a longer period of time) then yes, repeatedly not going for it because they are having a "bad day" is not acceptable or safe. What is going to happen at a competition if warm ups don't go right? As a coach, especially at the higher levels, but this applies to lower levels too, I need to know how an athlete is going to react - if warm ups didn't go well do I need to be ready to catch her if she is going to bail mid series? Is she going to freeze and just stand on the beam and do nothing? Again, not supporting kicking a kid out - but athletes have to be able to readjust during unfavorable circumstances. If a gymnast can't pull themselves together during practice, then chances are if they get into the same rough spot in a competition, they are not going to be able to pull themselves out of it. That being said, it IS up to the coach to HELP the athlete work through those kinds of situations.

 

[Jard.the.gymnast]

Everyone has a bad day, and that is understood, HOWEVER if this is a skill that an athlete has "had" for a while (they have competed it successfully, or had the skill consistently unspotted for a longer period of time) then yes, repeatedly not going for it because they are having a "bad day" is not acceptable or safe. What is going to happen at a competition if warm ups don't go right? As a coach, especially at the higher levels, but this applies to lower levels too, I need to know how an athlete is going to react - if warm ups didn't go well do I need to be ready to catch her if she is going to bail mid series? Is she going to freeze and just stand on the beam and do nothing? Again, not supporting kicking a kid out - but athletes have to be able to readjust during unfavorable circumstances. If a gymnast can't pull themselves together during practice, then chances are if they get into the same rough spot in a competition, they are not going to be able to pull themselves out of it. That being said, it IS up to the coach to HELP the athlete work through those kinds of situations.

I agree and disagree. Of course you want a consistent athlete. However, one (or a few more) bad trainings does not equal inconsistency IMO.

 

[rosiekat]

We had a coach (men's team) that did that to one guy a couple of times. But in that case, it was a kid who had a poor attitude and was just refusing to do stuff. It wasn't a fear thing, or a lack of understanding, or anything that might be a good excuse. He (kid) was basically being disrespectful. Coach said fine, if you're not going to work, go home. (And I witnessed this personally.) In this particular situation, I think it was a good call. (Now that I think about it, I think my kid was sent home a half hour early one time, because he was basically being a twerp and not working, even after warnings and being sent to conditioning, etc. Again, though, I was a witness and was OK with the coach's decision.)

As a general thing, though, I wouldn't think sending a kid home was the best way to deal with the situation.

 

[e'smum]

And that's what we just talked about.
She said she isn't afraid of it, she was just having a bad day.
But I told her part of gym is working through bad days. Ya know if you're having a bad day and not feeling confident, speak up! Talk to your coach! Tell her all of that, tell her what you need. You might not be progressing on confidence with the skill on high beam that day but if you added mats or took if to a lower beam at least you would be making progress with form, etc. that's something.
But she's 10 and having s voice is really hard for her. Another important life skill she's learning.

mine is 10 and having issues with her BHS/BHS series as well. if she got sent home, it would be all over. and she's had some rough practices (crying, balking at doing skills, refusing to try something new). her coaches have been great with her. i don't know that i would be ok with the coaches sending her home. although, we have not gone into practice after getting to the gym b/c she was so upset. that happened 2-3 times. i knew it would have been a worthless practice if i had forced her. if her behavior was distracting to the other girls, i'd rather her get sent home though.

and she is also learning to find her voice in the gym. i was really excited that on wed she went in and told her fave coach that she needed to leave 45 mins early so she could go and get her viola music book at rental night at her school. baby steps!

i hope your gymmie finds her way soon on her beam series. i know i've got more gray hairs than i did this time last year from our issues with it! lol

 

[1canadiangymmom]

So, interesting that this topic is active right now. Just got a text from dd's coach asking me to come pick her up, fully explained the reason, she is having a terrible day, upset, emotional etc, and does not want to discuss with anyone. So in this case, I guess I agree. So glad they let me know why, and not just had her call me to come get her. Baffled and curious as to what is going on though.

 

[CoachAlex]

I agree and disagree. Of course you want a consistent athlete. However, one (or a few more) bad trainings does not equal inconsistency IMO.

Obviously, but if athlete is making a habit of having bad days, then it's not a bad day.

 

[Nikki4]

I would guess temperament more than age. My ODD is such a sensitive soul. Despite being a rather mature teenager in general she has been known to shed a tear from frustration and fear. Problem is that it's usually been construed as fear of the difficult skill, when in reality it's fear of the coaches or the consequences of messing up. Being belittled, threatened, conditioned, or kicked out have never, ever made it better. My YDD is a stoic and she will not cry in front of people. But she will shut down if she's being pushed too hard. Threatening to kick her out would probably motivate her, but would still sour the coach/athlete relationship.

I think my kid is the most stoic kid is the gym!!! and stubborn!

 

[Nikki4]

I am struggling with a similar philosophy at my daughter's gym. If a gymnast is refusing to do a skill (most often on beam) after a period of time or a certain number of prompts, there are typically rope climbs assigned or the gymnast is told they can't move on to another skill. My daughter has been stuck on beam when she has refused to do her series for about 25 minutes-she was crying the whole time and clearly frustrated with herself. This is a skill that she has been doing successfully for several years and that day she was just feeling out of sorts with it. I just don't understand why some coaches can't wrap their head around some gymnasts just having an off day (no one can be "on" all the time). I feel like many coaches are inadvertently making kids MORE fearful of certain skills by making a bigger deal out of doing the skill-this is basic behavioral psychology.

Absolutely!

 

[azara]

Not really. The statement is that you need to be working. If you have a mental block on a skill, then work something else. Conditioning is always good. It's not a punishment; it's necessary to succeed.

I think we agree, in principle, because I also said that conditioning is good and necessary to succeed. I would hesitate to give conditioning if it will be seen as a punishment (see the second part of my response) because it is always good.

Maybe my kids are unique, but my kids tend to have a perception that everyone else (coaches, teachers, parents) are wrong and unreasonable, and they (my kids) are always in the right. I don't trust my kids' perceptions of situations much.

My view was not whether the coach was wrong or right, but that decisions made (especially punishments) should make sense to the child, even if they don't like it. Otherwise, the punishment won't be that effective. Likewise, if a gymnast is struggling with a skill, then to give conditioning without context may make it seem like punishment, whereas the coach probably thought it would help the gymnast with the skill and therefore set it for them to do. The same way coaches should put drills in context ("we're doing x so that you will find it easier to do y"), punishments or alternative assignments should also have a rationale. There will be the occasional misunderstanding, but in general, I think gymnasts can understand what's up. Perhaps I am too naive.