What is your favourite?

[gymgurl]

Ok, I have come across several different systems, USAG, AAU, Australia's 3 stream system etc

So which is your favourite?

What would be your ideal skills for each level (4+)?

Would you prefer to have compulsory skills rather than routines?

 

[gymnastjess]

i like australia's system and i think floor should be kept as a routine and the other apparatus' as just skills

 

[Aussie_coach]

Actually Australia itself only has a two stream system. The international stream and the national stream.

Some individual states have a third stream that they have created just for their state and some even have a 4th, but they are not part of the Australian gymnastics program.

 

[gymnastjess]

Actually Australia itself only has a two stream system. The international stream and the national stream.

Some individual states have a third stream that they have created just for their state and some even have a 4th, but they are not part of the Australian gymnastics program.

agreed, my gym has 3

 

[Bobby]

I understand that the Oz system effectively eliminates the odd late-bloomer who might otherwise have performed beyond expectations when they were older.
But I think it's kind of protective of the majority of girls because I don't think parents can be sucked in here to wild promises and outrageous hours/fees by unscrupulous clubs/coaches in the way that seems to happen (rarely I'm sure) in other places.
It might even protect average talented girls from high parent expectations ... since parents know very early on that they definitely don't have a future olympian on their hands.
PS: Compulsories are probably simpler for younger girls and cheaper for their parents, so I'm a fan of them for the lower levels. But for the higher levels (L4 and up in Oz) I'd vote for compulsory elements/optional routines. I think it makes it more enjoyable for the girls to personalise their routines, and more enjoyable for the audience to watch dozens of floor routines one after another. Then maybe optional everything from around L7 when the girls' develop enough variety of B/C/etc skills for that degree of freedom to make sense.

 

[gymnastjess]

what?! aus does the complete opposite by having more older starter gymnasts!

 

[gymnut1]

I think it has been posted here before that children are chosen for the elite system at 6 in Australia and trained accordingly. You are excluded from the elite system if you are 8 or older (which is nonsense to my mind) however there was a thread which explained it was due to the size of the country and the facilities available which had led to this.

 

[gymgurl]

I understand that the Oz system effectively eliminates the odd late-bloomer who might otherwise have performed beyond expectations when they were older.
But I think it's kind of protective of the majority of girls because I don't think parents can be sucked in here to wild promises and outrageous hours/fees by unscrupulous clubs/coaches in the way that seems to happen (rarely I'm sure) in other places.
It might even protect average talented girls from high parent expectations ... since parents know very early on that they definitely don't have a future olympian on their hands.
PS: Compulsories are probably simpler for younger girls and cheaper for their parents, so I'm a fan of them for the lower levels. But for the higher levels (L4 and up in Oz) I'd vote for compulsory elements/optional routines. I think it makes it more enjoyable for the girls to personalise their routines, and more enjoyable for the audience to watch dozens of floor routines one after another. Then maybe optional everything from around L7 when the girls' develop enough variety of B/C/etc skills for that degree of freedom to make sense.

I agree that it does eliminate the late bloomer if you want to start from level 1 IDP (Olympic Path) but I do know that we have an 8 year old and a 7 year old that previously competed in the National stream and was going to compete level 4 NDP or level 3 IDP and has chosen IDP. So if they are extremely talented there are ways of switching between streams based on talent.

Gymnastjess, what she is saying is that we eliminate late bloomers from the Olympic path not from gymnastics overall.

I like the Australian system that has compulsory routines until lvl 4 where you have compulsory skills and optional routines.

The australian system i think makes it easier for late starters to compete (in my state anyway) due to the state stream.

I think the USAG system has its perks with the whole not competing until level 4 because at lvl 1-3 i believe it should be more focused on building solid foundations.

And Gymnut you are absolutely correct when you say it is due to the size of the country and population size because in a population of 24 million compared to 100+ million we have a significantly fewer coaches and facilities that are capable of taking you to that level.

 

[gymnastjess]

oh i get it i thought u meant from gymnastics overall haha

 

[Bobby]

...I agree that it does eliminate the late bloomer if you want to start from level 1 IDP (Olympic Path) but I do know that we have an 8 year old and a 7 year old that previously competed in the National stream and was going to compete level 4 NDP or level 3 IDP and has chosen IDP....I think the USAG system has its perks with the whole not competing until level 4 because at lvl 1-3 i believe it should be more focused on building solid foundations...

Aussiecoach will correct me if I'm wrong - but I think Oz girls have to compete IDP 5 in order to be allowed to progress on upwards ... bearing in mind they have to be 9 or under (I think) to be age eligible for IDP 5. A "late bloomer" to me would be older than 7 or 8.
Gymnastics competes for participants against dancing, swim squad, and a lot of other activities which start competing for medals from age 5 or 6. I think it's wise to offer the same for L1 and up or a lot of children are going to prefer the other sports either for the medals or because they get reassurance they're good at them. Only a minority of girls (and parents) would spend that much time/etc (ie: years!!) on an activity without getting any feedback on progress whatsoever.

 

[Aussie_coach]

happyfacegrin you are correct, you can enter the IDP system as late as IDP 5, which is normally competed at around 9 years of age, but the system is not really set up to encourage this. A talented child may transfer to IDP 5 from the national level stream, but usually if they have not previously trained in the IDP system, at least done IDP 2 and 3 they don't tend to have the skills that are necessary. Most gyms do not have the ability, coaching expertise or facilities to develop elite gymnasts or even set the basis for doing so. Therefore, if the kids have not been identified earlier it would be highly unusual for a child to go from a national path to an international path as late as 9. Our system does work for our country, it can be a little exclusive, which may work to our detriment but I don't think we would have a fraction of the international success we do have without it.

I think one big difference is that we do start competing gymnasts at level 1 when they are 5-6 years of age. The USA also starts competing kids at age 6, but in level 4. I have never in my life seen a 6 year old compete level 4 in Australia, our routines are not designed to encourage it. Our Level 4's must jump to High bar and go over the vault table at at least 105 cms, the US don't have these requirements. If we had a child capable of level 4 standard at 6, she would be in the IDP stream.

On the original topic, I do prefer Australia's national stream system, where from level 4 each gymnast has their own individual routines and floor music with a set of skills to be built in. It helps to keep competitions interesting and exciting (for competitors, coaches, spectators and of course judges!), it does make for more effort on the part of gyms having to choreograph all individual routines from level 4 though.

 

[gymnast88]

I like the USAG system, but I have never done any other system.
I like have routines and not just skills!

 

[Aussie_coach]

We do have routines in Australia but coaches just get a list of skills they have to include, then each gymnasts gets their own routine like in level 7-10 and they just include those skills.

 

[gymnastjess]

I actually have a competition coming up where we just do 4 skills on each apparatus except vault. we are able to do any vault we can with a beat board and 30cm mat. For floor we use 4 of our best skills(are allowed more only 4 best are counted though) and some dance moves. For beam we have 4 of our best skills, a dismount and a mount and some poses. Bars is mount dismount and 2 skills on the bars (can inc. bar change) so gymgurl it kind of does exist to have skills not just routines even though they kind of are routines lol .