WAG What level to compete these two girls?

[BarCoach]

We are having parent-coach meetings this coming week and I need to tell two parents what level their daughters will likely be competing. They will be either repeating 4 or moving to 6. I have a general idea but sometimes go back and forth second guessing. What is your opinion?
Girl 1 competed two years old level 4, struggling the first year and doing well the second year. Then this past year she competed new 4 and was fairly middle of the road. She made only two cartwheels all year and by only the last couple meets could complete a connected bar routines (high score was 8.7). She will be 12 in February. My boss wants to move her to Excel, her mom will want her to do 6.
Girl 2 just made the switch to our gym about a week ago. She is significantly behind the girls who will be moving to 6, and has hardly done any up training but is moving along well since starting with us. She did okay last year, scoring a low 34 at most meets. A girl from from our gym who did similarly will be repeating 4. We would probably tell her to do the same but the gym she came from had already told her she'd be moved up to 5. She just turned 9 today.
I appreciate any opinions or input.

 

[Natasha]

When does your season start?

 

[happychaos]

At our gym both would be absolutely be doing 4. But, the 12 year-old sounds like she may be able to do 6....Several of DD's teammates have found the BWO on beam to be easier than sticking the cartwheel.

Could you give the girls a little more time to improve before making a final decision? Perhaps explain to the parents what skills the girls will need to move up so you're all on the same page.

 

[coachmolly]

Could you move them up provisionally? Let them practice with the level 6 group (if practice groups are different) but let the parents know they need to accomplish skills XYZ by a certain date in order to compete 6?
I would lean towards girl number 2 competing level 4 again based on skills and age, and the fact that things like clear hips take a while to learn, especially if they haven't been trained at all up to this point. But you really just don't know what she's going to do since she's only been at your gym for a month. I think I would try to stall making a decision for at least a few more weeks to get a better sense of where she's at and what she's capable of doing over a few months of training.

 

[BarCoach]

The score-out meet will be sometime in September, then the real season will start at the end of October or beginning of November.
Technically the final decision isn't made until summer workouts are over, at the end of August, but it hardly ever changes from what we decide now.
Do you say let the 12 year old move to 6 just because of her age? If she was younger she would be repeating 4 without a doubt.

 

[BarCoach]

I like the idea of having a cut and dry list of required skills to move up. That way there is no question about what level they'll be, come the cutoff date.

 

[Natasha]

I like the idea of having a cut and dry list of required skills to move up. That way there is no question about what level they'll be, come the cutoff date.

The year my dd started team, we had coach-parent conferences during the summer and we were given a chart that outlined the required skills for each level which stated that each skill needed to be performed successfully 3x on 3 different days during the 2 week testing period at the end of the summer to compete that level for the season. This condition helped parents (especially newbies like me) realize that they needed to "have" the skill, not just have done it once.

 

[BarCoach]

Thanks. I think we could do something like that.

 

[gymdog]

#1 probably Xcel, #2 repeat level 4 for now unless you think she's really making progress. But 9 is fairly young. If she's not there with the skills she can so another year.

 

[Jenny]

Seeing as though girl 1 is 12 and has already repeated 4 and done new 4 I would move her to 6. At that age having your own music and routines is a great incentive to keep working and trying. She needs to feel she is still moving forwards. I feel that is exactly what 6 if for - she could repeat 6 next year quite happily and change up her routines and skills slightly to keep motivated. Then she could go to excel if she doesn't make your requirements for level 7.

Girl 2 not sure. She is much younger, I would steer her towards 5 but it sounds like you don't do that. As you can't be sure how far she will get before August as she is new to you I would talk with her parents and provisionally put her training 6, dependent on how it goes. Maybe put forward that she might miss the first couple of meets if not ready and repeating 6 next year might also be on the cards too. I don't see the point of repeating a compulsory level she is already scoring 34s at.

 

[raenndrops]

#1 probably Xcel, #2 repeat level 4 for now unless you think she's really making progress. But 9 is fairly young. If she's not there with the skills she can so another year.

I agree with the 12 year old in Xcel... but I would provisionally train her for L6 this summer and let the parents know that if she doesn't get Cast Handstand and 180º on her split jump on beam (or if she doesn't score out of L5 at the score out meet), then she will be competing Xcel Platinum (which has a 1:30 time limit for floor like L7, and unlike L6 that has a 1:15 time limit).

For the 9 year old, I would let her train for 6, but let her parents know that if she doesn't have the skills, she will be repeating L4.

 

[BarCoach]

Hm, ok, so if we try to move girl 1 to level 6 do we take her current skill level into consideration? She is just barely beginning to cast to horizontal and is still doing back hip circles in place of clear hips, despite working them all year (other girls doing same drills are going above horizontal). Also her flexibility is poor so a bwo on beam isn't looking good, but I guess she could still do a cartwheel. She is going to get crushed on bars, so which is better: getting to compete a higher level and feeling like she's no good when she scores poorly or telling her now she's not ready but letting her compete a level she'll be successful at? I think the thing I struggle with is her age. If she was any other kid, she'd compete 4 again.
Girl 2: we have a little more leeway to wait and see because she has only been with us a week, hasn't been upgrading, and we don't know what she'll learn this summer. We'll wait and see.

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far.

 

[BarCoach]

Oh, raenndrops answered that. I like letting her work through the summer and presenting a list of requirements, and maybe even letting her try the meet. Her mom will probably be more willing to go with that. We presented excel as an option last year and she was not having it so I expect the same this year. But if she had to choose between excel and 4, I hope she's choose excel.

 

[gracyomalley]

Just a parent, but is excel a viable program where you are (its not here). Would there be other, older, girls in L6? Sounds like she is slow to get skills, and has fundamental issues, but sometimes a summer of "lets see what you can do - if you get the skills to do L6 fantastic, if not we'll make excel work for you, or repeat L4 but spend lots of time working on fundamentals so that next year its an easy transition..." will make the decision easy in fall, and allow the kid to feel successful either way.

I assume L5 is a score out level for your team? Both girls would need to do so, so still need to get free hips, casts, etc...

Nothing wrong with being the older girl who spends 2 years a level but has fun and grows personally and "gymnastically"....one of the team "role models" at DD gym is just that - all the girls love and respect her - BECAUSE she aims high but doesn't give up when it takes her a while to get there - and because of her attitude with the other kids. I think she's more "valuable" for the team and coach than the young hot shot L9s....also nice kids, but not leaders

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

Well if she goes for L6 she would still have to score out of 5 so would NEED to have either that BWO on beam or a BHS on beam...
Fwiw, we had a girl (new to competing, moved to our area from out of state) compete 4 this year at age 13. Granted, she is very petite and certainly looks as if she fits right in with the rest of the "older" 10-11yos on our team, but she had a successful season and as far as I know, did not feel out of place.
We did see a handful of quite obviously older girls compete both level 3 and 4 (as well as 5) this season. A few were MUCH older and obviously so, as in a foot taller than anyone else and physically developed, but I have to say I really admired them for doing it. The assumption was that they had started late and still really wanted to compete and I admired their gumption for doing it... The case is different for someone who is repeating, I guess, and in my personal opinion Xcel sounds like a great option for this girl.

I really like the idea of letting them practice with the higher group for the summer and letting them know if they don't get the skills, their placement would be different BUT I worry about how they will feel if they are then forced to step back to 4... Hard to tell which is better for their self esteem, you know? I know for my kid it would be a big carrot to be allowed to workout with the higher group and hope to get the skills but crushing if it didn't happen and she had to move back. Perhaps another option is saying you think it's in their best interest to repeat 4 for now but also say you will allow them to work the higher level skills in practice (or even go once or twice /week with the higher level group) and IF they can get them during the summer you will revisit the placement at the end of summer and potentially move them up then, provided you like what you see as far as effort and progression..?

 

[Committed]

As a mom, I would prefer what SurpriseGymMom had said about maybe letting her practice with the higher leveled group 1x2 a week. I know my child would be absolutely heartbroken if she were placed in a higher level and then asked to move back down. It would still hurt not being moved up, for sure, but also it would show gymmie, and Mom, what a L6 group looks like.

 

[BarCoach]

Luckily, they will remain as one group no matter the level (unless she moves to excel). There will be 3 level 4s, 6 level 6s, plus these two we're discussing.
Yes our excel program is great, but like I've said, for some reason her mom thinks very negatively of it and will not consider it as a good option.

 

[raenndrops]

Luckily, they will remain as one group no matter the level (unless she moves to excel). There will be 3 level 4s, 6 level 6s, plus these two we're discussing.
Yes our excel program is great, but like I've said, for some reason her mom thinks very negatively of it and will not consider it as a good option.

The mom needs to understand that, if her daughter does not score out of L5 she CAN'T Compete L6 anyways. If she barely scores out and doesn't have her cast to HS, she will get KILLED at L6 (even though the SR is to horizontal or above... and the deduction is on EVERY cast). Excel Platinum is a place where she can work on her casts and her B skills and series on beam, and higher level tumbling on floor, etc in PREP for L6/ L7 the following year. As long as you allow the transition back into JO, then it isn't like it is a dead end proposition. Just keep her with her training group for the summer first. If Excel practices LESS during the year than the JO L6/7, maybe allow her to work out with them some during the year to make up the extra hours.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Repeat 4 and up train. You are in control and need to put the child where she will be safe and do well, it's not about mom. Did I really just say that on mothers day!

 

[BarCoach]

Of course it's not about the mom. I'm just anticipating the yelling at I got last year for suggesting excel. I'll try to just present her with the facts and hope for the best.