I know that there will invariably be the usual "every child is different and progresses at their own speed" answers, but what is the prototypical rate of advancement between levels? I hear about six-year-old level 7s and third year level 6s and those sound to me like extremes. Is a level per year about right?
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There really is no such thing.
D
Deleted member D3987
can't predict.
vagymmomma
Proud Parent
There are so many factors that come into play that it's impossible to offer a right or wrong progression rate based solely on passage of time. The key considerations I've seen for move up seem to be: (1) does the gymnast have the necessary skills to progress, (2) is the gymnast mature enough to handle the higher level (which often brings more hours and requires more focus), and (3) does the gymnast perform the required skills well enough.
On Point 1. Our gym has a very strict kip policy as an example (especially for first year level 4s) - no kip, no move. This holds gymnasts back at level 4 more than anything else. We had a couple 6 year old level 4s who got their kip early, but they were held back because of maturity. This is point 2 (and in both recent cases it was a great decision - it allowed them to blossom).
Point 3 - both gymnasts and parents have to remember there's a difference between doing a skill and doing it well. 'Oh my daughter has her {fill in the blank}' -- drives me crazy to hear some of the mothers say this. Compulsory levels are the building blocks for the future, so learning the proper form is so important. I think this is where some gyms use an all around score as a measure. If a gymnast is getting a 36 all around at Level 4, they've probably mastered the base skills for that level (not saying that a 36 is the right number). 4s seem to repeat more than 5s. Many, many repeats at 7 - 9. Again, our gym has a strict rule on giants. No giant, no level 8 (the girls at level 7 with giants do SO much better).
I'm struggling a little with move ups this year (DD's a level 6), so I'm reminding myself of these points as well. The higher levels get harder because they're less forgiving when judged (there's a big difference between a 120 degree and 180 degree split on a back walkover) and it's a lot easier to fall on a bigger skill.
Trust your coaches.
On Point 1. Our gym has a very strict kip policy as an example (especially for first year level 4s) - no kip, no move. This holds gymnasts back at level 4 more than anything else. We had a couple 6 year old level 4s who got their kip early, but they were held back because of maturity. This is point 2 (and in both recent cases it was a great decision - it allowed them to blossom).
Point 3 - both gymnasts and parents have to remember there's a difference between doing a skill and doing it well. 'Oh my daughter has her {fill in the blank}' -- drives me crazy to hear some of the mothers say this. Compulsory levels are the building blocks for the future, so learning the proper form is so important. I think this is where some gyms use an all around score as a measure. If a gymnast is getting a 36 all around at Level 4, they've probably mastered the base skills for that level (not saying that a 36 is the right number). 4s seem to repeat more than 5s. Many, many repeats at 7 - 9. Again, our gym has a strict rule on giants. No giant, no level 8 (the girls at level 7 with giants do SO much better).
I'm struggling a little with move ups this year (DD's a level 6), so I'm reminding myself of these points as well. The higher levels get harder because they're less forgiving when judged (there's a big difference between a 120 degree and 180 degree split on a back walkover) and it's a lot easier to fall on a bigger skill.
Trust your coaches.
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There is no right. Every kid is different and needs to progress at their own speed.
But what I do know is that success in compulsories, and pre compulsory levels, is no indicator of success in optional levels or longevity in the sport. But strong basic skills, a hard working attitude, good coaching and parents who get that gymnastics is a "marathon not a sprint" (thanks Gymdad2) are vital ingredients.
We have seen so many little ones with "talent" here, many of them have burnt out young and no longer do gym.
But what I do know is that success in compulsories, and pre compulsory levels, is no indicator of success in optional levels or longevity in the sport. But strong basic skills, a hard working attitude, good coaching and parents who get that gymnastics is a "marathon not a sprint" (thanks Gymdad2) are vital ingredients.
We have seen so many little ones with "talent" here, many of them have burnt out young and no longer do gym.
The seasons culminating in states somewhat interfere with this concept. If you're competing, you're competing at a level, which means move up this year or hold back this year. Combine that with "teams" or groups in class/practice, and it's somewhat difficult for a gymnast to advance at their own speed.
I'm not knocking the system, because it's what it is reasonable and practical unless you can afford your own personal coach (which is way beyond unnecessary for 99.999% of gymnasts). It's a similar problem to schools.
As a follow-up: My daughter is starting to get excited about the move to Level 4. She was apprehensive about it until her coach mentioned that she expected the entire Level 3 team to move up. My daughter would apparently rather deal with the apprehension of moving up than the prospect of not being with her teammates. She's heard that Level 4 is "all about the back handspring", so she's been "all about the back handspring". She does them on the bed over and over again and they aren't pretty yet. I want her to slow down. We're just two days removed from state and she has at least six months before she'll be competing again even if she had all of her Level 4 skills today. I'm really looking to tell her, "You'll probably be a Level 4 for at least (insert time frame here) and you won't be competing for at least six months at Level 4. You don't have to get the back handspring this week. Let's go play some Uno." How much should you slow little ones down? And more importantly, should she even be trying these skills outside of the gym? It's great that she's endlessly enthusiastic about the sport, but she spent hours doing gym on a day where our gym made the girls take a day off.
I've asked my wife about whether our daughter's obsession is unhealthy. She laughed and then (sort of) quoted Whoopi Goldberg from Sister Act 2- "
I've asked my wife about whether our daughter's obsession is unhealthy. She laughed and then (sort of) quoted Whoopi Goldberg from Sister Act 2- "
If you wake up in the mornin' and you can't think of anything but gymnastics first...then you're supposed to be a gymnast, girl." I hope that's the right mentality.
Eventually, they'll wake up in the morning thinking about golf and then frown when they realize they're going to work instead. Let them enjoy it while they can.
MeetDirector
Proud Parent
cbone -
As others have said, there truely is no "right" answer to your question other than what is right for your daughter. Staying with the same group, especially when young, is a good thing. However, at some point separation will come into play and either your daughter or some of her team mates will begin to separate themselves from the rest of the group she is in today. This isn't bad; its normal. Not every girl is a shooting star right away; some of them take some time to catch fire. New groups will form as the girls of like ability group together.
Our daughter did training team and pre-5 (today what would be lvl 4 but not competing) when she was 6 and 7 years old, then lvl 5 for a year (or was it two), then lvl 6, then a combo 6/7 year, then lvl 7 for a year, and this year lvl 8, and next year lvl 9. It has worked for her without burning her out. During this whole time, the absolute number one priority has been school followed by having fun with gymnastics. As the levels and skills have gotten harder, the frustration has grown. However, her performance in school has never been better and she won State and qualified to Lvl 8 Regionals.
Throughout all of this, girls have passed her and then quit; girls have come from the rec side and stuck it out. She is looked at as a leader in the gym and has gotten into helping to coach the pre-school and pre-team girls. It has been an amazing ride and truely outstanding watching her grow into a very level-headed young lady.
Good luck and hang in there through the long, topsy-turvy ride called gymnastics.
As others have said, there truely is no "right" answer to your question other than what is right for your daughter. Staying with the same group, especially when young, is a good thing. However, at some point separation will come into play and either your daughter or some of her team mates will begin to separate themselves from the rest of the group she is in today. This isn't bad; its normal. Not every girl is a shooting star right away; some of them take some time to catch fire. New groups will form as the girls of like ability group together.
Our daughter did training team and pre-5 (today what would be lvl 4 but not competing) when she was 6 and 7 years old, then lvl 5 for a year (or was it two), then lvl 6, then a combo 6/7 year, then lvl 7 for a year, and this year lvl 8, and next year lvl 9. It has worked for her without burning her out. During this whole time, the absolute number one priority has been school followed by having fun with gymnastics. As the levels and skills have gotten harder, the frustration has grown. However, her performance in school has never been better and she won State and qualified to Lvl 8 Regionals.
Throughout all of this, girls have passed her and then quit; girls have come from the rec side and stuck it out. She is looked at as a leader in the gym and has gotten into helping to coach the pre-school and pre-team girls. It has been an amazing ride and truely outstanding watching her grow into a very level-headed young lady.
Good luck and hang in there through the long, topsy-turvy ride called gymnastics.
A
AlwaysCuriousMom
I looked around asking the same question when DD was newer in the sport. In general, I read that one level per year is "about right" only if a gymnast is hoping to become elite.
Bogwoppit makes a good point about burnout. There's no point in any of it if the gymnast is going to hate it in the end.
If you haven't already, check out a website called gymnasticszone.com ..... it has a Q&A section that has been very helpful to me (this question is answered several times.) I'm in no way affiliated with the site and don't really know the reputation of the site owner in the gymnastics community, but everything that is stated seems to make sense and is corraborated by information I've found elsewhere.
Bogwoppit makes a good point about burnout. There's no point in any of it if the gymnast is going to hate it in the end.
If you haven't already, check out a website called gymnasticszone.com ..... it has a Q&A section that has been very helpful to me (this question is answered several times.) I'm in no way affiliated with the site and don't really know the reputation of the site owner in the gymnastics community, but everything that is stated seems to make sense and is corraborated by information I've found elsewhere.
I would discourage the back handsprings at home. A great back handspring take a huge amount of shaping and spotting from a trained coach. Just "chucking" bhs on the bed, or trampoline, can add months to the process of learning the skill correctly.
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Not sure I agree with you.
Yes there are many kids who move along at the gyms prescribed rate, but you will see some kids who come along who just get skills, faster and better than the rest. We often see those kids move ahead faster than their peers. Coaches can spot these kids and know how to progress them along side the regular team groups.
If this were not the case we wouldn't ever see 9 and 10 year olds testing per elite and competing L9.
bogwoppit, are there drills that I can suggest that contribute to the back handspring (handstand push-ups?) without impeding the actual learning process so that she feels like she's still working on it or should we just shut it down completely? What do you think of setting-up "gym-free" times at home? I'm going to shamelessly pick your brain now.
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I would just say no BHS's at home. Every coach has their own technique and parents "home coaching" this type of skills can just slow things down. If she is a keener, then handstands are the basis to great gymnastics. Working on a handstand against the wall, then with the tummy against the wall, then a held handstand can help with so many gymnastics skills. Once she can hold a nicely shaped handstand for 30 seconds, she will see big improvements in the gym. Learning to stay "tight" in a handstand is a huge deal.
However, I would caution against you coaching her for any skill. The separation between gym and home is important, and as your gymnast grows up and moves along, she will love more and more that mom and dad support her sport, but they do not constantly push, prod and coach her to do better. It is a very demanding sport and when they get no break from the mental game it wears them down.
MeetDirector
Proud Parent
cbone -
core strength, core strength, core strength! (oh and did I mention core strength?) I mean the core of the body - abs, gluts, etc.
Handstands, handstand push ups, v-sits/holds, straight jumps (for quads), more sit-ups, pull ups (if you have a bar). Balance practice is always good, but bottom-line - no gymnastics skills; that is what the gym is for.
And one more thing - make home, be home; its not the gym. These kids put so much energy, blood, sweat, and tears into the gym that home really needs to be a sanctuary.
core strength, core strength, core strength! (oh and did I mention core strength?) I mean the core of the body - abs, gluts, etc.
Handstands, handstand push ups, v-sits/holds, straight jumps (for quads), more sit-ups, pull ups (if you have a bar). Balance practice is always good, but bottom-line - no gymnastics skills; that is what the gym is for.
And one more thing - make home, be home; its not the gym. These kids put so much energy, blood, sweat, and tears into the gym that home really needs to be a sanctuary.
I once caught my then 6 year old DD doing BHS's in the concrete basement, showing her friends, I nearly had a heart attack. I let her know that BHS's were for the gym only. Also that she could cartwheel around outside, and could do handstands if there was room not to smash her feet on the furniture if she fell.
This is very common when they are little. The challenge is to channel that energy into something safe and productive. Most kids are drawn to gymnastics because they are fearless, full of energy and independent. These qualities also lead to base jumping and sky diving! Surviving the early gymnastics years can be a challenge even to the hardiest souls.
While there really is no "right" rate, there are some generalizations. The average talented gymnast who sticks it out to the higher levels tend to repeat a level at least once or twice in their "career" (lack of better word). And when or how many times this happens really is individual based on age, fears, injuries, and skills. Gymnasts aimed for college tend to go through the lower levels 1yr at a time but then stay at level 9/10 a few years, perfecting their high level skills. Gymnasts aimed for elite tend to combine 2 levels in one yr at least once, sometimes twice. Depending on their age, they will probably hang out at 9/10 a while too.
I think it also depends on your gym. Some gyms "handpick" their team girls so they tend to be more talented and may be able to go trough all the levels 1yr at a time. Others encourage a greater range of talent on their team (and some of those "less" talented girls end up being the better gymnasts in the end). These teams may have more girls repeating levels.
I think its important to talk to your dd that teams are fluid. Girls will come and go throughout the years and it is important to keep and open mind and focus on her own progression, not worry about whether she will always stay with her group. Not saying she is thinking that now but its good to have those conversations so that it is not a big shock when it happens- either to her or her friends.
I think it also depends on your gym. Some gyms "handpick" their team girls so they tend to be more talented and may be able to go trough all the levels 1yr at a time. Others encourage a greater range of talent on their team (and some of those "less" talented girls end up being the better gymnasts in the end). These teams may have more girls repeating levels.
I think its important to talk to your dd that teams are fluid. Girls will come and go throughout the years and it is important to keep and open mind and focus on her own progression, not worry about whether she will always stay with her group. Not saying she is thinking that now but its good to have those conversations so that it is not a big shock when it happens- either to her or her friends.
The problem with home training and doing skills at home is not only the danger, but the fact that they will learn bad habits. My dd is a prime example. She used to do BHS on the tramp at home and developed really bad form which caused her to have bad form in the gym with the coach. She then developed fear from all the pressure "to get that BHS" and started doing weird arm swing rituals that screwed up the whole process. She was 7 when this happened and she is now 13 and still won't do a BHS because of this deeply imbedded fear. This is definitely an extreme case but things like this do happen and they happened to my dd. Some kids just develop fears and there is not much you can do to over come it. This is also a big reason why she is now a dancer 
.
.Great advice! As she matures emotionally, I know she'll need to understand that.
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