WAG Is it unusual to be weakest at tumbling? (Longish)

[ayyyrial]

Size, weight, and power may matter in tumbling eventually, but not at the RO-BHS-BHS or BT stage. At that level it is all about technique. Another thing is that if a kid has fear issues or takes a long time to get back tumbling skills, sometimes it takes time to get comfortable with going "all out" and actually using their power in tumbling. I'll bet the coaches are doing drills to help them connect the (pretty dang complicated) parts of tumbling all together and it will come in time.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

We have a lv 8 that is 53 lbs and can successfully vault a yurchenko. It is all in the run!

um...no. it's all what happens with board contact and entry.

 

[ascarter1]

um...no. it's all what happens with board contact and entry.

My point being that it is not about weight! Without a strong run, or contact with the board (obviously) then vaulting is going to be a struggle. I think its obvious that contact with the board is a must...

 

[GymDad9.9]

I love this thread. I have a peanut who is 50" and 55 lbs at 10.5 years old. She's working a full on floor and can flip a Tsuk into the pit. She runs like the wind into her tumbling and vault to generate power - I think this will help her when she finally gets big enough to really activate the springs on the floor and vault board. She rocks beam and is pretty decent on bars (though tends to muscle bars rather than swing - it's a work in progress). I tell her that whereas puberty is a hindrance for many girls, it will really help her...she's looking forward to it

It is a really good thread. Very informative and love the different perspectives.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

My point being that it is not about weight! Without a strong run, or contact with the board (obviously) then vaulting is going to be a struggle. I think its obvious that contact with the board is a must...

it does have to do with weight as it relates to slow and fast muscle twitch. and the run is one of conservation of energy until the last 3 steps. there's a lot going on with vaulting and yurchenkos that are not immediately evident to the eye.
additionally, we have the same issues with spring floors.

 

[gymmomx2]

@dunno - what can little peanuts do to get the power for vault and floor? Is it mostly a matter of waiting for them to grow? It's funny how everyone always talks about smaller size being better for gymnastics but on my DD's team the girls who are doing well right now at L7/L8 are the taller/heavier ones (6" taller than DD, 10-15 lbs heavier).

 

[coachmolly]

I have a 2 girls who come to mind who struggle with tumbling much more than other events- both are totally different. One is tall and muscular, the other teeny tiny- both the same age. The tall one has been in what seems like an endless growth spurt over the course of the last year which I think has a lot to do with her tumbling struggles. She's only 9, so I'm hoping we get a break from this craziness and it's not one huge growth spurt after another until she's a high schooler so she can figure out how to tumble.
The itty bitty is also very strong, tight, great attention to detail but not especially quick. I'm not expecting her to be a power tumbler anytime soon, but I do think it will eventually click. For now we just keep plugging away.
Lots of girls face similar struggles on vault. Vault is their weakest event until one day it all clicks and then there is no stopping them.

 

[gymbeam]

nope, OP, your daughter isn't alone! my level 8 is weakest on floor (both with tumbling and with comfort level in dancing) but she's very strong on the other three events- especially bars.

i'm a little nervous to see how she's scored in level 8 because isn't that when some artistry deductions start coming into play?

 

[kayjaybe]

I tend to agree on a few things- that 65lbs is true theory for vault- once they break 60 regardless of size they seem to be able to really vault well. I also second the opinion that bars- and beam- are vital to many coaches to be ahead on- and they figure there are so many options with tumbling that will come. I'd be super proud of her accomplishments on bars and beam and let the coach's lead the way on floor. I do see the same trend in our gym, with a few exceptions- but generally great bar workers are not just as great tumblers and vice-versa- with the exception of the all-around above- average girls which are few and far between at this age!

Funny - in my post I put 65 lbs as when it seemed her vaulting changed. I had never heard of this number before, but there was definitely a shift somewhere around that weight level. So it was true for my dd!

 

[xxStumpyxx]

Dd is 10 and 1 month old and is 50 inches tall and around 44lbs in weight, she has just started doing a ROBHS that isn't pretty but the skill is there but newish, she is ok on bars for her size, is able to squat on catch the high bar and do a baby giant over high bar and straddle undershoot dismount (new skill over pit bars), beam is ok, her hardest skill is cartwheel and vault not so good, strap bars are her favourite as she can swing pretty high and has gone as far as a spotted handstand (stopped from doing a giant at the moment).

 

[sce]

Build and fast versus slow twitch matter for tumbling/vault. Compact, explosive gymnasts can be great vaulters even if they are small. My flexy ectomorphs -- uh, not so much! If you have an ectomorph, things should get better at around that 65 lb. threshold, but it is still going to take time, a lot of determination, and technique. I expect DS to land twisting DB dismounts from rings and high bar in competition before he tries his first DB on the floor at practice. He's literally years away from an iron cross on rings, but may compete a piked yamawaki this season.

My ectomorph is almost 100 lbs and vault is still not clicking. She finally built some muscle and tumbling is though. OP - yes it is unusual, as tumbling seems to come easy for many but it's not unheard of. Both of my kids excel in other areas of gymnastics and tumbling has come later. It does come though.

 

[xxStumpyxx]

It's not so much size, but stature, IMO. I'm willing to bet $$ that my almost 11 year old is shorter than most peanuts mentioned here, if not all. BUT she's no peanut. Bc also willing to bet she outweighs most too. She struggled on vault as a shorty 7 year old, but now she has a yurchenko. Bars is still a bit of a challenge, but she rocks the beam and floor.

ETA: DD is almost 48 inches and around 65 lbs.

My oldest dd turns 13 next month and is 46 inches tall and around 46lbs in weight

 

[duyetanh]

OK. Again it is confirmed that my child doesn't fit the mold. At a small
height and low weight, her tumbling and vault are good. In fact, vault is her best event. Wth.....

 

[twocurlygirlz]

OK. Again it is confirmed that my child doesn't fit the mold. At a small
height and low weight, her tumbling and vault are good. In fact, vault is her best event. Wth.....

sounds like she is a powerful board puncher! My dd did not figure all that out until she started timers- FHS vault and low weight/stature was killer mix for her- but now a bit taller and more solid her bhs vault/Yurchenkos are coming much easier- so go figure!!!!!

 

[eucoach]

If she is a slow runner and weak jumper (so basically - not powerful at all), she will need close to perfect technique in order to get better at tumbling. It sounds like the coaches believe she is doing well improving the technique and that it will finally click.
I have a gymnast who was super tiny until about a year and a half ago - didn't hit 4 feet until she turned 13. Growing has done wonders for her! She grew 7 inches within the past year which has improved her tumbling so much - she looks like a completely different gymnast. She went from a very weak bhs-bt to a beautiful bhs-full and from barely making a running front tuck on floor to a fhs-front layout. She is still pretty slow but she has very good technique and the added weight and height has helped her so much. She didn't increase her training hours so it's definitely the growth that did the trick.

 

[ascarter1]

nope, OP, your daughter isn't alone! my level 8 is weakest on floor (both with tumbling and with comfort level in dancing) but she's very strong on the other three events- especially bars.

i'm a little nervous to see how she's scored in level 8 because isn't that when some artistry deductions start coming into play?

Oh my word...same exact boat here! First meet this weekend!! Best of luck to your dd!

 

[Aero]

The run is critically important! Regardless of size and weight, an athlete can increase their vaulting ability by running faster, especially the last few steps before the board...

...because, physics.

Increased velocity causes increased weight upon impact. A 60 lb. girl hitting the spring board at 10 miles per hour will weigh more, and thus, deflect the springboard more, than a girl who impacts at 8 miles per hour. Yes, bigger girls may be at an advantage, but by learning to truly "unleash" their full power in those last few steps, smaller girls can really get a great punch from the board. Think about it this way: if someone lobs a baseball to you and you catch it, it's no big deal. However, if a major league pitcher threw a fast ball at you, it would make your arm recoil back when you caught it. Due to the increased speed, the ball has more weight at the moment you catch it.

Also, as dunno has said, there are lots of technique factors involved after the run that make a huge difference, too. The entire vault must have an overall rhythm that doesn't slow down at any phase. Then there are other factors, like the amount of springs in the board, the distance of the board to the table, the height of the table, the technique of the gymnast, and the actual vault being performed. Vault is a complicated event, and all for something that is over in about eight seconds.

All that being said, the run is the very first phase of every vault. It absolutely must be refined and perfected if any success is to be had.

 

[MrsAnderson]

I wish I could see pics of some of your kids because I cannot imagine how little they must be! My child is just now brushing 44" and 44lbs and she is smaller than almost every kid I know. Most 6 year olds are taller! People get confused when she can read well. Lol
She is only 7 so it's so weird to imagine a 10 or 13 year old as small as her.

Ok...back to original post....
I suspect my child is slow twitch. She is a weak jumper and is slow. She has not learned a BHS yet and vault is a big struggle.

 

[Flyaway]

I wish I could see pics of some of your kids because I cannot imagine how little they must be! My child is just now brushing 44" and 44lbs and she is smaller than almost every kid I know. Most 6 year olds are taller! People get confused when she can read well. Lol
She is only 7 so it's so weird to imagine a 10 or 13 year old as small as her.

Ok...back to original post....
I suspect my child is slow twitch. She is a weak jumper and is slow. She has not learned a BHS yet and vault is a big struggle.

My 9 yo is similar in size. Maybe 50lbs. I suspect she is slow twitch as well. Although smaller in stature, her muscles are long and lean. Bars and beam are most definitely her strongest events. Vault is her nemesis. We're just happy she's not "walking" on the table with her hands when she vaults anymore. [emoji23]

 

[Gymmommy71]

My 9 yo is similar in size. Maybe 50lbs. I suspect she is slow twitch as well. Although smaller in stature, her muscles are long and lean. Bars and beam are most definitely her strongest events. Vault is her nemesis. We're just happy she's not "walking" on the table with her hands when she vaults anymore. [emoji23]

My DDs FHS vaults her first year of old L5 were so bad they would be described as front limbers over the vault. She got over though, but wow looking back at videos they were awful. Judges were pretty generous in retrospect - . Maybe they felt bad cause she was so tiny.