Discussion in 'Men's Artistic Gymnastics (MAG)' started by bogwoppit, Jan 30, 2018.
It was only a matter of time. The culture is the culture, and if it's set up to facilitate the victimization of young women, it will facilitate the victimization of young men as well.
It does make me wonder if any of those commentators who were frothing at the mouth after the 2016 Olympics about how the men's artistic program needed to be run more like the women's, with monthly verification camps where personal coaches are less involved, are feeling at all abashed.
The victim was actually t&t, not MAG. And the coach involved is the former Director of T&T (2015-2017). Victim was drugged and abused. Director resigned to focus on family and to direct an EMERGENCY MEDICINE DEPARTMENT!
ETA: Not sure WHEN the abuse happened, but it was while the victim was training in Michigan.
Yes, I did see that it was T&T. I am utterly sure that there are abusers in all of the disciplines, including MAG. I know that an accusation against a national director is deeply shocking. Unfortunately, it's likely this won't be the only one, nor is this athlete the only male athlete who's been victimized.
Here's my worry. Let's assume USAG tightens up its ship substantially so that even fewer serial pedophiles can get through the cracks. Where do you all think they are going to go? And where will some families go as they start their gymnastics journeys, knowing little of any of this aside from some vague sense that "that USAG had a big problem with this a few years ago, didn't they?"
We have to fix the problem, not just the organization. And while we are seeing the problem as a USAG problem attributable to USAG culture, I don't think that is necessarily broad enough.
Yes, I put it here because it gets more traffic.
How I feel:
It will never end.
I know that the blame is 100% on the abusers, but I do think that one of the best things we can do as parents is keep an eye out on EVERYONE's kids. That's one of the things I value so much about my group of gym-parent friends. They'll shoot me a text to say, "K told me that this happened in practice and that T was upset. THought you'd want to know."
It's not as necessary for us any more, but it's good to have. Kids don't always tell you the bad stuff.
Yes, ^ this, absolutely.
Special rings of hell, I tell you. They must exist for abusers. And I know this particular case is still being researched, but there are more abusers out there and they all deserve a special ring of hell.
I feel like a lot if organizations I have been involved with put practices in place to protect both the kids and adults involved, a long time ago. How did this not get addressed in gymnastics for so long?
Hi, I am wondering if this really should be on the T&T thread? Or copied there? After exploring the allegations further they are (as far as I understand) very specifically about T&T training camps and coach, including allegations of abuse of a female T and T athlete.
Fuller alleges many things in the official report to Safe Sport he has posted on his twitter account. This includes some things about Camp Wakeshma that is (or was) a T & T camp unless I am mistaken (and I may be.)
This appears to be a developing story, there have been a few updates/clarifications/rebuttals since the original article was published on Monday. Also, Fuller bringing his allegations to twitter has sparked some twitter wars people might (or might not) be interested in following...
Not objecting in any way to this being posted here- never hurts to remind parents of sons that males can also be victims of sexual abuse.
Also with all the focus on sexual abuse it is very important to remember that there are other forms of abuse we need to be vigilant about. Despite how salacious it sounds to say that someone was "drugged and abused," there is relatively little sexual abuse alleged in Fuller's report- mostly the accusations are of some very serious emotional and verbal abuse and humiliation, training abuse (making an athlete practice when athlete is intoxicated) medication abuse, neglect (not taking injured athlete to doctor) promotion of underage drinking, and descriptions of what sounds like a culture that certainly would at the very least pave the way for abuse.
I also think it is important for us parents to note what Fuller alleges about how he was originally questioned after first reporting to USAG a couple years ago. He admits to not being cooperative at that time, but if what he is saying is true, the investigator was not handling the interview process appropriately. Disturbing and another reminder that generally speaking, organizations tend to be ineffective at investigating themselves.
However, this particular story appears entirely (?) about incidences that (allegedly) occurred in T & T, not MAG. Just think T and T parents in particular as well as parents of female athletes may be interested.
@bogwoppit acknowleged upthread that she purposefully posted it here so it would get more traffic. Maybe link to it from the T&T forum?
Yes, of course I did see that. But that does not explain why the link was posted here. If more traffic for the post was the motive, there are far more heavily trafficked forums.
More updates indicate that either these allegations are continuing to be investigated, or investigation is complete and no wrongdoing was found. Fuller has now locked his twitter account but I do not know why. As far as why the coach left gymnastics and went back to medicine is pure conjecture as far as I can tell.
Again I am troubled very much by the allegations by Fuller that USAG and SAFESPORT did not investigate his report appropriately. (He has a couple conflicting things to say about safesport- said they are better than USAG on the one hand, but in a separate tweet said they are not "interested" in anything beyond sexual abuse allegations. Most of his allegations are not of sexual abuse, but are nonetheless very troubling.) I would like to know more about the investigative practices followed by Safesport. Also, Some of the allegations are in fact about medical abuse. When would the AMA be the appropriate entity to report some to? When law enforcement? The lack of clarity on these points is frustrating to me.
I do not know if others have made similar allegations or what, what other evidence there is, etc. but at this point with this particular story I think there may be too little foundation for posting it anywhere.
I agree. It is like the last 30 years never happened. How was it ok in anyone's mind that underage gymnasts live with their coach? Living with a coach does (of course) not necessarily mean that abuse happens- but it sure as heck is an unsafe practice. From what Fuller put in his report, this was the situation, but it is also possible I am mistaken. The report is not very clear overall.
Separate names with a comma.