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moogacat

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In between means compulsories in fall and Xcel in spring. Or Level 6, then Xcel platinum or diamond, then level 7. It's in-between 6 and 7, or an extra competition season in-between compulsory seasons.
Ahh. I get you now. We are starting to see a few former JO girls use Xcel as an in-between level, but it’s not systematic by any means. We’re more likely to see “retired” JO athletes in upper Xcel levels than girls who intend to go back, but as our state Xcel programs grow I think we’ll see more back and forth movement.
 

moogacat

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Many girls at at DDs gym do xcel so they can try and compete other sports at the same time - such as swimming, diving, track & field and lacrosse. I consider these girls high performance athletes.
That’s true of my daughter. She does Xcel so she can do cheer and other sports and clubs at school. She wants to continue advancing in gymnastics, but she doesn’t want to commit solely to the gym. She’s competing optional type routines, and in our area the JO hours would preclude her from doing nearly as many other activities.
 

ldw4mlo

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In NY compulsories start competing in late Fall and go all the way through til Spring. So it seems it is a local thing. My dd is lv 7 but we have never had xcel at our local meets. The other option here is IGC which seems to be used truly as intended. We have seen xcel compete at meets outside of our local area.
I’m in NY.

And when NY had early states in Feb. Our girls actually competed JO in the fall and then XCel in the spring. This happened for 2 reasons. There was an Early State meet for JO and there was no rule about only doing one state in a season, either JO or XCel state. Our coaches liked the discipline of JO and letting the girls have their own routines in XCel so our gym did both. The coaches feel they train/teach gymnastics. A BHS is BHS there is no JO BHS, XCel BHS.

Then NY did away with early states for compulsory. And the rule changed that you couldn’t do XCel states and JO states in the same year/season. Coaches feel compulsory is a better foundation so we only do JO now.

This year every meet we have done has had JO and XCel and some even IGC sessions. They are usually separate sessions but they are all at the same meets.

As to how it’s used. Our neighboring gyms say XCel is less of a commitment hour wise and that’s true for their gyms. Their XCel kids go less hours then their JO kids. And most of those gyms go more hours in XCel then our JO kids.

I’ve seen XCel used many ways. And just like JO. You will not find a consensus on how and how much kids train. If you are looking for fair as in equal this is certainly not the sport for that.
 

ldw4mlo

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Regarding Elite it is a third USAG track. Not the same as XCel or JO

Regarding college (as in Div 1, 2 or 3) although there is a first time for everything it is pretty much impossible to do college gym on the XCel path. Same with the Olympics. Even JO is not the direct pathway to the Olympics.
 

raenndrops

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Regarding Elite it is a third USAG track. Not the same as XCel or JO

Regarding college (as in Div 1, 2 or 3) although there is a first time for everything it is pretty much impossible to do college gym on the XCel path. Same with the Olympics. Even JO is not the direct pathway to the Olympics.
I think in time, there may be Xcel Diamonds who go on to compete NCAA. We have to remember that the Xcel program is still fairly young. Over time, the "home grown" Xcel gymnasts (those who either never competed JO or didn't get past L6 in JO) may progress to Diamond and keep advancing their skills enough to at least get onto a Division 3 team.
 

Curlyfry7

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Any mobility score achieved must be achieved at a sanctioned meet. Even in-house meets must be sanctioned to use a score for mobility. Scores will be checked, so if a gym doesn't sanction the meet and have a 2-judge panel, the scores can't be used for mobility..
So...I am aware of a gym that holds a non-advertised, in house mobility “meet”... there was only one judge. One girl broke her ankle during warm up, so didn’t even compete. Yet she was given qualifying scores. The other girls warmed up beam, performed the level 4 routine, then were asked to do a couple other skills from the level 5 routine, and were given qualifying scores. The girls were told the judge judged them during their warm up. They were never even told what their total scores were, yet were all told that they had passed the mobility test. Their scores are no where to be found, and they are now competing level 6. How can this actually happen?? I don’t want the girls to be penalized, but don’t understand how mobility scores can be required, yet it seems no one checks? In this case the judge basically just lied, and it is believed??
 
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GymMomma2019

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So...I am aware of a gym that holds a non-advertised, in house mobility “meet”... there was only one judge. One girl broke her ankle during warm up, so didn’t even compete. Yet she was given qualifying scores. The other girls warmed up beam, performed the level 4 routine, then were asked to do a couple other skills from the level 5 routine, and were given qualifying scores. The girls were told the judge judged them during their warm up. They were never even told what their total scores were, yet were all told that they had passed the mobility test. Their scores are no where to be found, and they are now competing level 6. How can this actually happen?? I don’t want the girls to be penalized, but don’t understand how mobility scores can be required, yet it seems no one checks? In this case the judge basically just lied, and it is believed??

The exact same thing happened at the gym I was referring to minus the incident! I think ultimately it hinders the child in the long run.
 

gymdog

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No, your answers are very condesending, and Iit gets old. But you're saying there's no compulsory in the fall where you live? That's pretty standard nation-wide. In-between means they compete level 3 in the fall then Xcel in the spring. Then the next season they compete Level 4 in the fall and Xcel in the spring. That's an Xcel season "in between" compulsory seasons. Or they can compete Level 6 and the next season not be ready for 7 so they compete Xcel, then the next season compete Level 7, making that Xcel season "in between" levels 6 and 7. THAT'S what is meant by "in-between."
 

gymdog

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Okay sorry have to figure out how to actually reply. Anyway, I’m pretty sure even in your own state the compulsory season isn’t entirely in the fall, doesn’t GA have two compulsory state meets or something? I get in R8 a lot of the states have a fall states for compulsory and then spring for xcel/opt so you could use xcel like that. But that is definitely not standard or nationwide. Just over the border in region 7 most states (all? NJ randomly has feb state meets so idk how to categorize that) have spring state meets. NY also has two seasons within compulsory last time I checked. Etc every state it’s completely random and up to them. I honestly have no idea why still in 2019 USAG hasn’t made any attempt to standardize this at least a little but I guess it’s not that big a deal.
 

MILgymFAM

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So...I am aware of a gym that holds a non-advertised, in house mobility “meet”... there was only one judge. One girl broke her ankle during warm up, so didn’t even compete. Yet she was given qualifying scores. The other girls warmed up beam, performed the level 4 routine, then were asked to do a couple other skills from the level 5 routine, and were given qualifying scores. The girls were told the judge judged them during their warm up. They were never even told what their total scores were, yet were all told that they had passed the mobility test. Their scores are no where to be found, and they are now competing level 6. How can this actually happen?? I don’t want the girls to be penalized, but don’t understand how mobility scores can be required, yet it seems no one checks? In this case the judge basically just lied, and it is believed??
A very similar experience happened at a gym we previously attended. All the girls not mobilizing we’re having their regular practice, so it wasn’t even a secret or anything. It’s crazy what some gyms get away with.
 

Along4theRide

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My daughter is a strong optional gymnast that competed xcel at the lower levels. She started gymnastics "late" at 7 years old and gained new skills fairly quickly. Competing xcel allowed her to add new skills into her routines as they were competition ready. If she were forced into the very rigid compulsory requirements, she would have been held back. The flexibility of xcel, combined with good training and coaching, allows girls to move at their own pace. Jmho.
 

MILgymFAM

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No, your answers are very condesending, and Iit gets old. But you're saying there's no compulsory in the fall where you live? That's pretty standard nation-wide. In-between means they compete level 3 in the fall then Xcel in the spring. Then the next season they compete Level 4 in the fall and Xcel in the spring. That's an Xcel season "in between" compulsory seasons. Or they can compete Level 6 and the next season not be ready for 7 so they compete Xcel, then the next season compete Level 7, making that Xcel season "in between" levels 6 and 7. THAT'S what is meant by "in-between."
It is not nationwide, and yes I am saying that. Clearly and repeatedly, which you find condescending and I find frustrating since you cannot imagine that you might be wrong. In our state everyone has the same season. Our compulsory girls, optional girls, and Xcels all compete at the very same meets, sometimes in the very same sessions. Heck, throw the boys in too- they also have the same season, including some meets and sessions.
 
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moogacat

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1. Has USAG come up with more specific rules for xcel regarding transitioning from Xcel to JO? If Xcel is supposed to be an easier requirement but has the same benefits as JO then what’s the point of the JO program? Are these girls (xcel) able to do TOPs, elite, Hopes, go to the olympics, are they chosen for collegiate? Because if the xcel program has the same benefits as JO then I will gladly switch my DD over to xcel to pay less, practice less and not be as stressed regarding skill requirements related to the junior Olympic Program??

3. Is the judging different? One meet recently I saw the levels 6 and 7 compete with XP gymnasts with the same judges judging across the board. Of course they had different awards ceremonies but they were competing during the same session. Do they judge the girls the same or do they know which girls are JO and which are Xcel and automatically score different due to required skill levels being different?

4. Are the skill requirements different? For example, if there is a gymnast that is a level 6 and one that is a XP -are the same skills required for both? If so, are deductions as strict with Xcel as it is with JO?

6. Lastly, does any other parent feel as though certain gyms in your state have sort of a “favoritism” shown to them at meets-where you can tell that certain judges favor certain gyms? In my state a lot of gym owners are judges that are older in age who either judge and give their fellow gym buds an up on other gyms with scoring or are in cahoots with other judges. Several gyms from our area travel out of state now because it has really turned into a “who you know” show. One coach who is also an older gym owner and judge for our state felt so comfortable one meet that while her girls were competing at beam she sat down AT THE JUDGES TABLE the ENTIRE TIME laughing at talking with the judges who were judging that event. She did this at floor too!
Just responding to the questions I feel like I can (my daughter has only competed Xcel; she's currently a Platinum).

1. The only current rules are if you go from Xcel to JO you have to compete or score out of compulsories, or take advantage of the petition option available when you turn 14 (I think it's 14). They are not eligible for the higher-level developmental programs that recruit from JO. That's not an issue for us because our gym doesn't offer that anyway (we rarely have more than one or two level 9s, and some years no one above level 8).

3-4. I thought the judging seemed different, but now that my daughter is a Platinum and competing in some meet sessions with Level 6-7 or higher, it seems pretty on par. I think you see more difference between lower level Xcel and compulsories because of the nature of the compulsory routines. They are so technical and the judges have such expectations down to arm movements it is easy to rack up tiny deductions. Those types of deductions seem to be minimized in Xcel. As for skill requirements, the levels in Xcel have broad ranges of skills, so it's hard to directly compare. I've been told that Platinum is kind of like Level 6+ as far as requirements, but not having JO experience I'm not sure if that is correct. Based on what I see and read I think my daughter is doing skills in her routines that would be roughly Level 7 routines, with maybe one exception. She has all 10.0 start values.

6. Definitely yes, at least at a few meets. It's frustrating and galling, but I try not to get hung up on it because it can drive you crazy. It's just part of the sport, one of my least favorite parts, but one you have to kind of accept.

We're in our third year of Xcel and my daughter loves it and has no real desire to move over to JO even though she loves gymnastics and loves being in the gym. I highly recommend it for people who want to have a life outside of the gym, since JO programs that accommodate lower hours seem to be rare. I know they exist, but there are certainly none in my area.
 

ldw4mlo

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My daughter is a strong optional gymnast that competed xcel at the lower levels. She started gymnastics "late" at 7 years old and gained new skills fairly quickly. Competing xcel allowed her to add new skills into her routines as they were competition ready. If she were forced into the very rigid compulsory requirements, she would have been held back. The flexibility of xcel, combined with good training and coaching, allows girls to move at their own pace. Jmho.
She would not have had to have been held back. If she would of been it is likely a gym policy. As you have the ability to score out of a Level. So if you have the skills you score out. You can even score out of 2 levels at the same meet.

We have 2 girls on the older side at our gym. They scored out of L4 and L5. Now L6s. Kids are happy, parents are happy, coaches are happy. Now instead of 2 small groups of 5s and 6s, usually needing different sessions. There is one larger Level 6 group. All training the skills they are ready for.
 

ldw4mlo

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I think in time, there may be Xcel Diamonds who go on to compete NCAA. We have to remember that the Xcel program is still fairly young. Over time, the "home grown" Xcel gymnasts (those who either never competed JO or didn't get past L6 in JO) may progress to Diamond and keep advancing their skills enough to at least get onto a Division 3 team.
Anything is possible but currently highly unlikely.

The JO pool is much bigger.
 

ldw4mlo

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Any mobility score achieved must be achieved at a sanctioned meet. Even in-house meets must be sanctioned to use a score for mobility. Scores will be checked, so if a gym doesn't sanction the meet and have a 2-judge panel, the scores can't be used for mobility.
There is not a snowballs chance in Hades that USAG has the staff or time to verify every L4/L5 score out.

5. Do you guys feel all meets should be publicly documented whether they are “score out” meets or not? Some gyms don’t have the privilege of having judges/meet directors as gym owners and have to actually go to meets. And if scoring out of level 4 & 5 is a requirement for USAG prior to entering optionals- is the gym required to send the score out scores to USAG?
As others have said there are many situations where score outs are not done in an "official" meet.

And anyone who knows of an improper score out has the ability to report it. To what end? Really whats the gain/loss? They kids still have to compete where they end up. So lets close down a gym over a L4/L5 meet. Lets tell a kid she is out of gymnastics over a L4/L5 meet.

They all eventually end up in the same place. My daughter current L8 team has kids who did L5 and L6, kids who did more then one season of L7 but no L5. All of them are doing L8 together.

And yes you will make yourself crazy worrying about what everyone else is doing, how they are being judged, why you think an "easier" skill shouldn't have won because your kid did a "harder" skill etc........

As you are a new gym parent I caution you to stay in your lane. The focus is your kid, her gymnastics and what works for you and your family.

Gymnastics is fair to the extent that the rules are spelled out. It will never be equal. Ever.

Xcel is different then JO. Gymnastics however is gymnastics. A well done BHS will score well in either places. A well done routine meeting all the requirements will score well in both. A badly done won't. The ones in the middle will depend on whats in the code of points and the judge.

You have kids who hit all their skills and score worse then a kid who falls because the one who fell had better detail all around. better leaps, form and landings. Its fair. And the correct scores.

You have kids who do what appear to you an "easier" skill and score better then the kid doing what you consider a "harder" skill but in the code of points they are the same skill level. A B skill is a B skill. An A skill is an A. Its fair.

You have kids doing less hours and not training as intensely getting beaten by a gym that trains more intensely or longer. Its fair.

There will be times your kid kids score will be one of the highest at her gym yet the kid with the lowest score gets medals and up on the podium and your kid doesn't get one medal because they are in different age group. It happens and by the rules its fair.

You inform yourself and you make the best decision for your family and child.

A bunch of years ago my kid was at a gym that wanted my 7 yr old to do way more hours then she wanted and that I thought necessary.
They wanted to move her to XCel because she clearly couldn't do serious competitive gymnastics.

I was fortunate enough to find a gym that does JO at less hours. She is now a L8.
And in complusories we regularly beat many "high" power, home schooling all gym all the time gyms. Now not so much but we have our moments. Is it fair? Yes, both gyms are playing by the rules spelled out. And we are at the gym that works best for us.

I could of chosen an all gym all the time gym. But my kid would of never made out of compulsories because she would of been burnt out. I could of chosen XCel pathway but my kid needed more then that. Our kids get to do other things and JO optionals. They are L7 and L8s currently running track, diving, playing lacrosse etc... and doing gym.

You make the best choice for your gymnast and your family. Enjoy your daughters journey. Keep her focused on what she is doing.

But if you get caught up in what everyone else is doing you will make yourself crazy and a CGM.

Comparison is the thief of joy.
 

GymMomma2019

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There is not a snowballs chance in Hades that USAG has the staff or time to verify every L4/L5 score out.



As others have said there are many situations where score outs are not done in an "official" meet.

And anyone who knows of an improper score out has the ability to report it. To what end? Really whats the gain/loss? They kids still have to compete where they end up. So lets close down a gym over a L4/L5 meet. Lets tell a kid she is out of gymnastics over a L4/L5 meet.

They all eventually end up in the same place. My daughter current L8 team has kids who did L5 and L6, kids who did more then one season of L7 but no L5. All of them are doing L8 together.

And yes you will make yourself crazy worrying about what everyone else is doing, how they are being judged, why you think an "easier" skill shouldn't have won because your kid did a "harder" skill etc........

As you are a new gym parent I caution you to stay in your lane. The focus is your kid, her gymnastics and what works for you and your family.

Gymnastics is fair to the extent that the rules are spelled out. It will never be equal. Ever.

Xcel is different then JO. Gymnastics however is gymnastics. A well done BHS will score well in either places. A well done routine meeting all the requirements will score well in both. A badly done won't. The ones in the middle will depend on whats in the code of points and the judge.

You have kids who hit all their skills and score worse then a kid who falls because the one who fell had better detail all around. better leaps, form and landings. Its fair. And the correct scores.

You have kids who do what appear to you an "easier" skill and score better then the kid doing what you consider a "harder" skill but in the code of points they are the same skill level. A B skill is a B skill. An A skill is an A. Its fair.

You have kids doing less hours and not training as intensely getting beaten by a gym that trains more intensely or longer. Its fair.

There will be times your kid kids score will be one of the highest at her gym yet the kid with the lowest score gets medals and up on the podium and your kid doesn't get one medal because they are in different age group. It happens and by the rules its fair.

You inform yourself and you make the best decision for your family and child.

A bunch of years ago my kid was at a gym that wanted my 7 yr old to do way more hours then she wanted and that I thought necessary.
They wanted to move her to XCel because she clearly couldn't do serious competitive gymnastics.

I was fortunate enough to find a gym that does JO at less hours. She is now a L8.
And in complusories we regularly beat many "high" power, home schooling all gym all the time gyms. Now not so much but we have our moments. Is it fair? Yes, both gyms are playing by the rules spelled out. And we are at the gym that works best for us.

I could of chosen an all gym all the time gym. But my kid would of never made out of compulsories because she would of been burnt out. I could of chosen XCel pathway but my kid needed more then that. Our kids get to do other things and JO optionals. They are L7 and L8s currently running track, diving, playing lacrosse etc... and doing gym.

You make the best choice for your gymnast and your family. Enjoy your daughters journey. Keep her focused on what she is doing.

But if you get caught up in what everyone else is doing you will make yourself crazy and a CGM.

Comparison is the thief of joy.

I was simply asking that is all. Not comparing I honestly get everything you are saying I’m not oblivious or ignorant to the fact to gymnastics and simple scoring as some of the things you explained regarding meets, certain scores, etc. Several parents asked the same things I asked recently and I thought to bring it here to see if someone could give me more insight by way of friendly discussion. I know xcel is fairly new that’s why I was simply asking for input and other feedback because I know what I’ve read it’s supposed to be yet have noticed how it is being used in our area. However, asking something such as this on here definitely won’t happen again. Some people take these forums waaay too serious and you feel like if you ask a question you feel like your head is being chopped off because you may not know much as others. That’s the point of coming here to know not be talked to as though you are crazy or know absolutely nothing.
And I will never make myself crazy, become a CGM or be lost into comparison. Thank you for your input and breakdown to me though with everything you explained.
 

ldw4mlo

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And I will never make myself crazy, become a CGM or be lost into comparison. Thank you for your input and breakdown to me though with everything you explained.
I did not say your were crazy. I simply cautioned its easy to become crazy.
 

Flyaway

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This is our first experience in Xcel. So far, for my dd it has been a positive experience. Our gym uses Xcel "wrong" - with the general path for girls being Silver, then level 4, then Gold/Platinum until they are ready for level 6 or 7. The main reason for doing Xcel vs. level 5 is that in our region, many many gyms do not do level 5. Our girls were travelling all over and usually just competing against themselves. Xcel has also grown tremendously in our area, so there is more competition there. We do have a sanctioned level 5 score out meet though, for those girls going from Gold/Platinum to level 6 or 7.
 

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