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Tkatchev vs clear hip tkatchev

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Brandon

Coach
Coach
Gymnast
Jul 8, 2010
154
Huntsville, Alabama
So my coach said he was thinking about me trying clear hip tkatchevs. Reason being he believes there should be less to go wrong and less possibility of injury/big falls compared to giant tkatchevs. Also our bar is a rec bar and doesn't go high enough for me to giant anymore (don't worry, I go to two gyms, the other bad a full high bar).

Anyway, I've never done tkatchevs of any kind and neither has my coach. Anyone have any input on the two methods and which is preferable and why?

Thanks!
 

nickibinds

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Former Gymnast
Nov 24, 2012
9
26
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USA
I found Tkatchevs from a giant easier than from a clear hip. Tkatchevs from a clear-hip, in my opinion, didn't allow me quite as much wiggle room, timing-wise, than the Tkatchev from a giant swing. It required more exactness and precision. However, to be fair, I may have felt that way because I learned the Tkatchev from a giant swing first and was more comfortable/used to it, where as with the Hindorff, I was just playing around with it, and was still in the awkward, beginning learning stages. It's also worth mentioning that I did them on the uneven bars.

But I think the important thing is not whether one is a better method than the other (you'll actually use similar motions in both skills when you're letting go of the bar—pull the bar backwards, snap into a tight arch while digging your chin to your chest and looking for your ankles), but that when you decide what release you want to learn, you give it a fair shot.
 

dunno

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Apr 28, 2009
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So my coach said he was thinking about me trying clear hip tkatchevs. Reason being he believes there should be less to go wrong and less possibility of injury/big falls compared to giant tkatchevs. Also our bar is a rec bar and doesn't go high enough for me to giant anymore (don't worry, I go to two gyms, the other bad a full high bar).

Anyway, I've never done tkatchevs of any kind and neither has my coach. Anyone have any input on the two methods and which is preferable and why?

Thanks!
this is such a bad idea. you don't learn Hindorf before Tkatchev. "less to go wrong"? clearly, "neither has my coach" is key here. you have no idea, and neither does he, the things that can go wrong with a Hindorf.

my suggestion is to learn Tkatchev first. and use an overhead spotting rig. if i remember correctly, you're a young grown man. you can't just "chuck" either of these skills without drills first and a belt. if you have access to a pit that would even be better. then you must have pads to put over the bar or you'll smash your legs/heels/face even in a belt.

please don't take any unnecessary chances with either of these skills. :)
 

Brandon

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Coach
Gymnast
Jul 8, 2010
154
Huntsville, Alabama
this is such a bad idea. you don't learn Hindorf before Tkatchev. "less to go wrong"? clearly, "neither has my coach" is key here. you have no idea, and neither does he, the things that can go wrong with a Hindorf.
You're right, that's why I'm asking haha. My coach is generally extremely conservative when it comes to learning new things like this, I was kind of surprised myself.

I think the idea is that we can do it without the Chinese taps and risk of peeling, and because no giants are involved we can do it on a low bar, or a bar above a soft resi.

We don't have a pit or spotting belt but we do have bar pads. If the bar is low and we have a porta-pit under it I don't see too much risk with the hindorff, but like I said, I wouldn't know! Maybe something better off left for summer camps where better equipment is accessible..?

Still though, what are the differences in risks between the two? Which one is better in the long term?
 

dunno

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as "a" is before "b" and "1" is before "2" so is Tkatchev before Hindorf. wait till you go to camp and have the opportunity to work with some experienced men's coaches and have the proper equipment.

both skills have similar movement patterns once you release the bar. but 1 is an 'out bar' skill and the other an 'in bar'. you must have an extremely proficient free hip or stalder to Hindorf. and yes, you can learn a Tkatchev without the big Chinese tap.

the risks? one can find you landing on the bar on your back/back of the neck and then bouncing from the bar and the other on your back or face/mouth/Adam's apple and bouncing from the bar.
 

Gymishome

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Dec 12, 2013
120
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I'm just wondering why the coach wants you to do a hindorff when he hasn't even ever spotted a tkatchev..
 

midwestgymcoach

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Apr 23, 2014
17
37
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I agree, you should learn the Tkatchev first. If you learn that, the Piatti would be easier to learn. I do, however, like free-hip rev hects more. I like the bigness of the skill, if it's done right. As for the women's side, when I see a huge Hindorff (a la Dominique Dawes, Chellsie Memmel, Tasha Schwikert, etc.) I am always impressed.
 

Gymkateer

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Coach
Mar 5, 2014
78
49
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USA
As dunno said, they are similar in the air but completely different otherwise so I don't think your coach is wrong to suggest learning the clear hip first. If you can't do giants on the bar with this coach, then your reverse hecht has to be from another circling skill. If you try for the giant, you will only be able to work on the skill at one gym rather than both of them.

How does your coach know how to teach it?
 
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