Parents A few commonly accepted business fundamentals...

[refugee]

• It's easier/cheaper to keep customers you have than acquire new ones.
• An unhappy (ex-) customer will tell 10 people about their experience. A happy custoner will maybe tell one.

I wish gym owners would learn this.
If you're sensing a rant, you're right.

I've been listening to a few fellow gym parents...all have moved recently (last year or so) from other gyms. I try not to get too caught up in it, but we've also moved gyms before, so I understand/sympathize.

This week, I learned that one of my daughter's former teammates is leaving the sport. Injury? No. Skill tapped out? Probably not. Pain? Yes...emotional. The passion is simply gone, beaten out of her by lousy coaching and an arrogant gym owner.

So what's the connection here? That former gym is well-known, with a high performance history, but in one group alone, 8 out of about 11 girls have left in the last year, most over the same complaints that have gone nowhere with gym management or ownership. While many have simply moved on to other gyms (including 5 to one competing gym) this one is galling because she was a great person and athlete. So despite already qualifying for State, she is simply leaving, mid-season.

Gym owners...sometimes you get it wrong.
<end of rant>

 

[COz]

I think the problem is, a talented gymnast or even a talented coach, does not necessarily a good business person make...

The same goes for martial arts and dancing too.
*sigh*

 

[cbifoja]

We are seeing a similar issue in our gym that has parents and gymnasts unhappy with members of the coaching staff. Unfortunately, it is often not an easy situation.

Gymnastics coaches aren't exactly a dime a dozen and depending on where you are in the country, you might go several seasons before finding a decent coach. I suspect that sometimes the HC/owner has to choose the lesser of two evils: putting up with a negative, mean coach or having to cut students/programs due to staffing shortage. I certainly wouldn't presume to know which is the best option.

That's the rational me talking! LOL

The mom me talking boils when I hear some of the comments made by one of our coaches. I wish I could make her understand how much more she would get from these kids if she took a positive approach. It is a rare kid who you can bully and humiliate to greatness. But the kids feel every snarky insult and snide comment to their bones.

It is dividing to tell a kid that they should be more like their teammate or that they look like "so and so" when they screw up. And when our kids tell us these things or when we hear them with our own ears, yes, we do talk to each other about it. Because we're friends and because only other gym parents can really understand the situation.

Now I don't badmouth our coaches outside of conversations with my other team parents. And I work hard to make sure the kids are unaware but what's funny is that they talk about the situation from their viewpoints as well.

 

[NMNorskie]

Posts like this make me appreciate our gym. No gym is perfect, but our owners, staff and coaches are nice, and they treat us and our kids well. That seems to be more than half the battle right there.

 

[Anna's_Mom]

I think it would help if more coaches and owners were or have been parents of girls! Sometimes I think it is just pure ignorance about what is developmentally appropriate, how children perceive things, and perhaps how much they hear and understand.

My chief rant these days is that the gym program seems to have no sense of what a typical family with employed parents deals with each day in terms of logistics and schedule. So it's school vacation week and you want to have extra practice. Great. And you say "optional but strongly encouraged", which gymnast hears as "you need to be there". And then you schedule them for 9:30 - 12:30. Um... just how are we supposed to get them there and back? And then back again for regular practice at 4? You couldn't start earlier so we could do this around a work schedule? Or maybe work something out so they could stay with the regular campers for the afternoon? So, now I'm paying $40 for the extra practice plus I either need to take off from work or pay and extra $20 for the car service that I use for afternoons to catch the morning as well. OK, but you couldn't actually think about a parent's schedule?

Rant done and sorry for the hijack!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

And sometimes their goals are not ours. We left a gym because their emphasis was on rec. They had team because it's good PR. Something for the young ones to strive to. But their money and focus is rec, and the coaches schedules, then team.

We left because they wanted add an extra day from 2 days to three. No problem there. But the wanted the third day to be Sat., afternoon no less. Their rec schedule couldn't accomodate another team practice during the week.

Sorry thanks but no thanks. We went elsewhere. Best move we made. My girl has grown leaps. We had 4 meets where the old gym was there including Early States. Our gym beat them in team all meets as did my girl who took 1st AA at all meets, oops sorry one 2nd to a girl on her own, my little slipped on floor, goofy day.

They had an OK showing, their rec business is still thriving. It works for them.

Other gym in the area every one talks about how stern the coaches are, how they change schedules at the drop of a hat, but they get results. Most of the parents feared having a meet with them. And we have some kids from their gym because it's all stress no fun. And we had a meet with themAll the parents a flutter, during level 3 warm ups on bar that team were all doing kips (sloppy but doing them) Most of our girls didn't have theirs by then. I was like relax ladies, Kip is not required. Don't you know that team did not do kips during their competes and nearly all their girls blew their mill circles. We beat them too.

But it works for them, for folks wanting that style for training. Think it more "serious" gymnastics. OK if it works for you.

As long as it works for the gym, they are not going change.

And it's about the right fit for the child and family. Where we are works for now, if it doesn't at some point it will be time to move on.

 

[Midwestmommy]

We also have teammates whose parents both work during the day, and also some divorced and single parents. Bless the patience and great attitudes of a couple of the work-at-home parents and parents with more flexible schedules who help out a lot with other kids on those vacation day practices during the day. It gets crazy sometimes that's for sure. And expensive when you have to pay drivers, sitters, etc..

 

[cbifoja]

It's important to remember though that rec pays the bills. Team has a role, but ultimately the money comes from the rec kids so I totally get that gyms have to put them first.

 

[cbifoja]

We also have teammates whose parents both work during the day, and also some divorced and single parents. Bless the patience and great attitudes of a couple of the work-at-home parents and parents with more flexible schedules who help out a lot with other kids on those vacation day practices during the day. It gets crazy sometimes that's for sure. And expensive when you have to pay drivers, sitters, etc..

We have a lot of teacher parents so we can get all the kids where they need to go. Now we are a small gym and all the parents know one another so we don't have to worry about "stranger danger", but it is nice for the girls to carpool together to help out the parents with "working hours".

I've often said that if I didn't teach, I don't know how in the world I would be able to handle summer gym hours. I am very sympathetic and so I always offer my car to as many kids as I can cart.

 

[wgymmom]

It's important to remember though that rec pays the bills. Team has a role, but ultimately the money comes from the rec kids so I totally get that gyms have to put them first.

I have no doubt that rec pays the bills (our gym has somewhere around 500 rec kids!), but team gets put first here. To the gym, team draws in rec kids - they see the "big girls" and want to be like them. When we were putting in new equipment, team got the new spring floor and rec got the hand me down.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I have no doubt that rec pays the bills (our gym has somewhere around 500 rec kids!), but team gets put first here. To the gym, team draws in rec kids - they see the "big girls" and want to be like them. When we were putting in new equipment, team got the new spring floor and rec got the hand me down.

Again it depends on the gym where they want their revenue to come from.

Our gym now is mostly team.

 

[gymdog]

And sometimes their goals are not ours. We left a gym because their emphasis was on rec. They had team because it's good PR. Something for the young ones to strive to. But their money and focus is rec, and the coaches schedules, then team.

We left because they wanted add an extra day from 2 days to three. No problem there. But the wanted the third day to be Sat., afternoon no less. Their rec schedule couldn't accomodate another team practice during the week.

Sorry thanks but no thanks. We went elsewhere. Best move we made. My girl has grown leaps. We had 4 meets where the old gym was there including Early States. Our gym beat them in team all meets as did my girl who took 1st AA at all meets, oops sorry one 2nd to a girl on her own, my little slipped on floor, goofy day.

They had an OK showing, their rec business is still thriving. It works for them.

Other gym in the area every one talks about how stern the coaches are, how they change schedules at the drop of a hat, but they get results. Most of the parents feared having a meet with them. And we have some kids from their gym because it's all stress no fun. And we had a meet with themAll the parents a flutter, during level 3 warm ups on bar that team were all doing kips (sloppy but doing them) Most of our girls didn't have theirs by then. I was like relax ladies, Kip is not required. Don't you know that team did not do kips during their competes and nearly all their girls blew their mill circles. We beat them too.

But it works for them, for folks wanting that style for training. Think it more "serious" gymnastics. OK if it works for you.

As long as it works for the gym, they are not going change.

And it's about the right fit for the child and family. Where we are works for now, if it doesn't at some point it will be time to move on.

Pretty much every gym I've ever heard from has Saturday practices so I guess you were lucky to find one that could accommodate your schedule! I'm surprised they can have high level optionals and not utilize Saturday as a practice time.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Pretty much every gym I've ever heard from has Saturday practices so I guess you were lucky to find one that could accommodate your schedule! I'm surprised they can have high level optionals and not utilize Saturday as a practice time.

We have Saturday's they are just not required at this level. Not even sure if they are required higher, we cross our bridges when we get to them

To at least Level 5 they go 3 days a week required. They can always do more but that is minimum. So this year my girl does M, T, Th. Next year it will be M,W, either Fri or Sat. She will do Fri. I just don't think 7,8, and 9 yr olds at compulsory levels need to be in the gym for more than 3 days unless they choose to. And you should be able to do three days without Sat required. And our gym makes it work. We do extra camp days when school is out and in the summer. Sat and some privates as needed. No need for every Sat.

Our coaches realize that they need some balance, why lose a good kid who overall likes being there because there is no flexibility. We do have state and regional winners, so I guess their doing something right.

 

[gymdog]

That's great that you found a good fit, however, it is extremely uncommon for a practice schedule to be like that due to maintaining a gymnast/coach ratio. Many parents prefer Saturday classes and practices, actually, so from a business standpoint there is a reason for it. For working parents it eliminates another after school headache. Many gyms even have Sunday classes now.

I just find it odd to use the example of a class/practice on Saturday as a bad business tactic. It just wasn't the right fit for your family.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I just find it odd to use the example of a class/practice on Saturday as a bad business tactic. It just wasn't the right fit for your family.

I didn't say any of my examples were bad business practices, I said they were choices made by the gyms. Not good or bad just is what it is.

And sometimes their goals are not ours. ..................

And it's about the right fit for the child and family. Where we are works for now, if it doesn't at some point it will be time to move on.

My beef was adding it last minute, not back when I committed my kid and my families time to a schedule. Because it's not just the gymnast but the whole family who is affected.

And your right for some Saturday's are a better fit, that's why this gym has that available.

Our story went like this.

When we committed to team at the old gym, in the spring, there were no Saturday practices, not even rec. Saturdays were for things like parties at that gym or strictly open gym, ie fun. Saturday's were sprung on us in Aug. Again, because they didn't want to lose the rec business during the week and the coaches couldn't get done what they needed to, yet should of been able to.

Those ten weeks in the summer cost my girl a level. Because they don't score them out. When my girl tried out at the new gym, they said incredible talent, but what has she been doing all summer?? And I knew watching for 15 mins she wasn't up to par with this gym. All levels are not the same with regards to quality of training, so I learned the hard way. So she went back to level 2 (and this was also when the levels changed). And she is doing fabulous, now. Light years from where she would be back at the old gym. And I know of at least 6 others to head over to our current gym. So it wasn't just me.

So the old gym loses the more serious kids but is not too concerned as they have a big rec business.

Our gym has less rec, more team. Different business models clearly.

 

[gymdog]

Well, knowing that they never had anything on Saturdays is different. It's very unusual though so not something I would have assumed. It sounds the ultimate issue really wasn't adding a Saturday practice though, at least not for most families.

 

[refugee]

This thread has taken an interesting course...not exactly where I thought it would go, but still relevant.

A few thoughts...

While random schedule changes are frustrating, we've come to accept them as part of the industry/sport, more so as the kids progress to higher levels, and especially as spring break is often in the run up to optional state and regional's post-season meets. As you've seen with meets, there are challenges publishing the schedule much more than a couple weeks before the event. Opportunities/schedules for coaches, meets, etc. can be hard to predict so flexibility on everyone's part helps a lot. Remember that many coaches coach more than just your kid's team in the gym. So that's our expectation today, and while inconvenient, no longer a surprise when it happens and we don't get too bent out of shape.

On the topic of Saturday practices, one of my daughters had Sat practice from L5 on up in a 12-16 hr/wk program. The other one had no Sat practice with a 20 hr/wk program covering all optionals, but then we moved, and at L9 had Sat (and 2x/day 2x/wk). All I'll say is more hours usually = more skill development, but that is an entirely different conversation.

Rec v. team emphasis, my observation: this is a symbiotic relationship--a strong team attracts kids to the rec program, with goals to make team. At the same time, a strong rec program is necessary to financially support the team. Don't fool yourself--this is a financial pyramid, not just from rec to team, but also from L3 to L10. Those gyms that don't subscribe to this are challenged to attract or pay sufficient top-level team coaches and remain viable--unless team parents are willing and able to foot the entire bill.

To my original post, my rant was based more with gym management that brought in a less than competent coach. This coach set back several optional level girls simply because they were beyond the coach's ability. This coach took girls who consistently scored 9.5s and 9.6s in years before into 8.9s and 9.0s. From taking first thru third in events and AA to outside the top 10. Remember, this is an Optional level coach. And a few girls were repeating their level, too. How do you do that? Gym management was arrogant enough to believe (and preach) that their top team coaches would trickle down coaching technique and skills to this new coach. Clearly, this did not happen. Worse yet, gym management blamed the athletes for their falling scores, saying they didn't work hard enough, weren't receptive to coaching, weren't great athletes, etc. Yet this was never commented upon in prior years. It should be pretty obvious what happened when those girls left for other gyms.

As to how coaches talk to their athletes, this is a tough one. Here's the reality I've seen: coaches need to earn their athlete's respect, even at the young ages of our daughters. Some try nice, some are mean, but at the optional levels, most of our daughters are smart enough to know when a coach knows their stuff. My daughter had an absolutely horrid coach in terms of personality and niceness...but her meet results were like never before with that coach and my daughter respected her coaching ability. In contrast, she also had the "nice" coach that couldn't offer a valid correction to help with scores--the base skills were there (from a prior coach), but the nice coach just couldn't fine tune for the last 3 or 4 tenths. And no, this wasn't an athlete issue, because a substitute coach (while her own coach was off to a different level's out of town meet) got that fixed in one week for the next meet. Oh, on that respect issue: daughter did not show her own coach what she learned during warmup, but executed it to her season best score during the meet.

Sadly, this does lead to badmouthing coaches (and gym management) outside the gym. And not just by parents--remember what I said about our kids being smart? I'm not saying it's right, but it happens.

Gym owners and coaches...you are so deeply involved with your athlete's lives that you can NOT ignore changes in their behavior, their comments, etc. Example: the girl who used to be 30 minutes early for every practice who is now showing up a minute before practice starts...find out why. Or don't and watch her leave your program.