Acceptable level eight vault?

[TumbleBunny]

The gym my daughter goes to now has requirements in order to compete on vault as a level 8. Front handsprings are not considered acceptable level 8 vault. Each gymnast is only working one vault and most be able to throw that vault in order to compete. Last meet the vault coach scratched the entire eight team from vault. They warmed up their timers and then saluted and scratched.

Just wondering what most consider acceptable level 8 vaults? Our gymnast most are performing sousks and one working toward next meet a Yurchenko.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

well, the accepted method is to train the vaults you refer to and compete front handsprings until the above vaults verify consistency and safety.

unless of course, you are with coaches that have them chuck those vaults and risk bodily harm and make parents and judges crap in their pants which is a consistent problem at level 8 meets.

or...you're with coaches who can't coach vault or have gymnasts that can't vault which is sometimes synonymous...like maybe the gym you're at.

 

[IJustWriteChecks]

My daughter is a 2nd year L8 gymnast, and has been training a Tsuk-tuck for over a year. She is still not ready to safely do it in competition, so she does a front handspring and a 1/2 on/1/2 off vault. She typically scores mid-high 8's, which is better scores then some poorly executed (and scary) Tsuks and Yurchenkos score. IMO...any vault done safely at this level is ACCEPTABLE. No extra .1 or .2 is worth it.

 

[TumbleBunny]

They won't allow the girls to chuck the vaults but also won't allow them to compete front handsprings. So they just have them not compete vault.

Tried talking/reasoning to the vault coach to allow girls to qualify for states but preferred to have them get "0" on the event. All the girls would have qualified for states and even placed high in the All Around with other scores from other three events. Most recieved 9's and high 8's on three other events.

 

[gym law mom]

Don't know if the vault coach thinks scratching them on vault will motivate them to learn the flipping vault more quickly(it won't) or what his/her problem is. Sounds like it might be time to talk with the HC/owner about this misguided philosophy.

 

[Optionals United]

like duuno said some gyms do not consider a front handspring a accepltable level 8 vault. but they should still be allowed to compete a fronthandspring until the other vault is ready to compete. also if the whole level 8 team had to scratch vault that teells you something is wrong. i would recomenned talking to the hc too see what the coach is ultimatley thinking and palnning for the whole season.

 

[tecgym]

Seems unreasonable to me... especially if they are only working one vault. A handspring full is worth a 9.0 or 9.1 and there are plenty of other vaults that they could do safely if given the chance to work them. Some kids go years training a flipping vault before they are ready to compete them.... what will they do , not compete vault for years????? We have a level 8 at our gym who does a handspring and consistently outscores kids doing tsuks... she happens to do a great front handspring, but to take it easy on her body they do a handspring. Also, if they aren't competing yet, odds are they are doing tons of numbers of these flipping vaults in an effort to get them so they can compete and risk potential overuse injuries. Not sure how often they train, but the potential for injury is great. And the optional season is pretty short - if they aren't competing yet, many states have their state meet in March or early April... seems like not a lot of time left if they can't do it already! Maybe the coach will change his mind if enough people talk to them????

 

[Deleted member D3987]

just bizarro.

 

[tecgym]

And what is wrong here if the entire team can't do the vault they are training???

 

[sportyfam5]

Our gym has them compete a front handspring if that is safer for them until higher SV vault is ready. There are many options though for Level 8 vault. My DD is 3rd year level 8 and has always done tsuk. She worked on Yurchenkos a bit but is back with tsuk. I wish more gyms would explore all options for the best of the gymnasts. I couldn't get this to work as a link but I included a jpeg of L8 vaults and their start values.
Good Luck to your daughter.

 

[2gymmies]

We are level 8 and our whole team did front handsprings at our first meet because the flipping vaults are not quite ready. We have a small meet this weekend and I think we are going to do our front handsprings again. It only starts out of a 9.0 but one girl on our team got an 8.65 out of 9 and all of them were over an 8.2, I believe. And we swept all around, 1,2,3 in the 12 & under age group and all qualified to state without it. We know we need them for the bigger meets coming up, but it is very early in the season to risk an inconsistent new flipping vault. I hope you are able to talk to the coach and get your dd vaulting something until her flipping vault is ready. Good luck!

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

And what is wrong here if the entire team can't do the vault they are training???

Yes... It might be understandable if the coach was competent enough to have at least 50% of the girls ready by the beginning of the season. I sometimes agree with restrictions but equally there is always an exception. However I do not agree with coaches putting requirements on girls (36's, must have Tsuk/giant) when they do not have the ability to coach all the athletes (not just the star) to their requirement. Equally if that is the standard you want as a coach, why move gymnasts up a level if you are going to scratch them on an event they can compete safely.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Yes... It might be understandable if the coach was competent enough to have at least 50% of the girls ready by the beginning of the season. I sometimes agree with restrictions but equally there is always an exception. However I do not agree with coaches putting requirements on girls (36's, must have Tsuk/giant) when they do not have the ability to coach all the athletes (not just the star) to their requirement. Equally if that is the standard you want as a coach, why move gymnasts up a level if you are going to scratch them on an event they can compete safely.

This is exactly what I don't understand. It is perfectly within reason for a coach to not allow level 8's to compete without a vault that starts from a 10. But then WHY DO YOU MOVE GIRLS UP TO LEVEL 8 THAT DON"T HAVE THIS VAULT??!!! Makes no sense.

 

[TumbleBunny]

Thank you for the input. Meet next weekend,see what happens.

 

[tecgym]

do they have this rule on other events or is it just vault
do the kids do a lot of vaults by themselves in practice and they are just not ready or do they do thousands into a pit (love that by the way)
have others talked to the coach - maybe there is power in numbers

 

[Deleted member D3987]

just bizzaro...you can see everyone is trying to figure this out.

 

[Mack_the_Ripper]

At my gym we have a similar rule. If you're not ready to compete your vault, you scratch. Same as all the other events. Your vault doesn't have to be great to compete - you don't have to land it every single time or stick it or anything - but we typically would rather have girls train only their competition and scratch at the first meet or two. It's the same as the other events...if you don't have your level 8 skills, you don't compete. At the first meet, none of the level 8s compete on vault. But by the end of the season, they're all doing their competition vaults in meets.

 

[tecgym]

Yes, but there seems to be a difference in that this seems to be a new rule thrown at them - at least that was the impression i got from the original post - i could be wrong... and how long is the season - ours is almost over... states in march and three meets before then. sounds like these kids have three other good events - why not just let them compete a handspring to get qualified? because if push comes to shove , will they really not compete them all year and they won't get to go to states, regionals etc just because their coach wants to prove a point??? I am guessing not - that the coach will give in - and then what has he/she done? just proven that their rules don't really mean anything?? I just don't really understand it - why move the kids up- have them train only one vault - if the coach isn't prepared enough to have them ready to compete it by JANUARY>? Sounds like a coaching problem on many fronts to me....

 

[jaxelyn]

Level 8 Vault Insight

The gym my daughter goes to now has requirements in order to compete on vault as a level 8. Front handsprings are not considered acceptable level 8 vault. Each gymnast is only working one vault and most be able to throw that vault in order to compete. Last meet the vault coach scratched the entire eight team from vault. They warmed up their timers and then saluted and scratched.

Just wondering what most consider acceptable level 8 vaults? Our gymnast most are performing sousks and one working toward next meet a Yurchenko.

I am a level 8 coach, and I may be able to offer some insight, though I do not know the situation at your gym enough to say for sure. It is very true that a Front handspring is not considered a vault that is up to par with the standards for level 8. By the time that girls are competing in this level, the kids are generally kids who have been dedicated and committed to gymnastics, and therefore, they are good. By not doing a flipping vault in level 8, it definitely makes for a weak-looking level 8. I have kids who are all training flipping vaults (they all do tsuks this year), and we just started our competition season, which goes until about April. I've got one girl in particular who has had a tsuk for months, if not longer, and she just decided she didn't want to do it anymore. She comes in with a poor attitude, and when I take her back to drills for the skill to try to help her "start over", she does not respond well or put forth any effort because she says she just wants to do a front handspring full twist (which she has had for a few years). I told her that she would have to scratch vault if she was not throwing the tsuks at least in practice, but that she could compete the handspring full if she would at least throw the tsuks at practice (we have a slightly softer landing, with mats over a foam pit). She has a very safe tsuk, but her attitude change caused her to stop working hard and setting goals. Therefore, it is her decision whether to scratch vault or not, based on what she chooses for the weeks leading up to the meets. One of my other level 8's has an awesome piked tsuk in gym, and she even competed it at our first meet. She got to a meet last week and wouldn't go for it. I did have her do a handspring instead because she generally works hard and does throw these vaults. However, if she stops doing them in practice, the same things will happen to her. I will force her to scratch. To be honest, it is slightly embarrassing to have level 8's competing front handsprings. That is a level 5 vault, though very important, which is why it is used for so long. By the way, when my level 8 did compete her front handspring, she popped off so high that she over rotated and landed with a fall. Why? Because she is used to having to pop off the vault and flip! Therefore, competing a handspring can cause the girls to start holding back on their power to try to land... in turn, lessening their power on tsuks. It is common for new level 8's to not have their vaults yet. Most gyms just tell the kids they have to repeat level 7, so don't be too hard on the coach. You go from doing a front handspring for 3 years or more to suddenly needing to pop high enough to flip. It's often the event that holds people in level 7 longer.

 

[CoachTodd]

A lot of responses and quite a few that seem to try to defend a very poor way to teach. I am particularly partial to coaching vault. From what I've seen, you may be part of a gym that knows how to coach very specific skills and refuses to let a kid compete anything but those skills. I have had level 8's compete front handsprings (while working tsuks) and actually score higher than those that were competing bad flipping vaults. I see no reason to scratch an event and reduce the chances of a kid scoring well in the all around just because the coach's pride thinks a level 8 shouldn't compete a front hand spring vault. I think when the kid stands up and solutes the judges when the coach thinks they're going to scratch, the should do a front handspring vault. The kids parents paid for the the meet and there are 4 events. If the coach wants the kid to scratch an event they can do safely, give the parents 1/4 their meet and coaches' fees back.