Parents Advice needed - trying to understand training hours

[MaryBrooke]

My daughter competed silver for the second time this past season. Did well, mid to high 9s in all events. They trained 12 hours a week for the full year last year.
We just got the training schedule for the summer and hours have dropped to 9. We won't know the fall schedule until end of summer.
I am trying to understand the ins and outs of this. She's obviously not setting the gymnastics world on fire but she does enjoy the sport and wants to progress. She would like to go gold this year but knows there are skills that need serious work.

Why would hours be reduced? Am I meant to read between the lines and take that as these kids have kind of tapped out and won't be progressing? Could it be due to lack of coaches? Was 12 hours just way out of line for Xcel standards?
I have asked the gym but haven't heard back. My daughter doesn't want me to press it but for many reasons I would like to know the answers. I thought this forum might have some insight.

She doesn't want to change gyms so if she doesn't progress this will spell the end of the line for her - she'll get frustrated and want to leave. Which would be a huge shame because the benefits are so numerous.

Thanks for any insight.

 

[AmiaRay]

I think it really depends on a gyms philosphy towards xcel, available coaches, amount of girls, etc how many hours they get. I know that my gym will offer you to practice with another similar level if you are in that skill area and willing to pay for the hours.

 

[NutterButter]

My bigger concern is if she needs to do a 3rd year of Silver. Sounds like she is scoring well. Is the gym able to progress them on skills?

 

[MaryBrooke]

My bigger concern is if she needs to do a 3rd year of Silver. Sounds like she is scoring well. Is the gym able to progress them on skills?

Good question. This was only her second year of competing. Part of me is concerned that no, they can't progress them. She doesn't have her back handspring. I've talked to the xcel manager (briefly) saying she wants to get it, she's talked to her coaches... but the coaches never stay the same for xcel. It's really starting to feel like xcel is the ugly duckling afterthought, even though they SAY they are using it as a vehicle to progress kids to level 6 who are like my daughter, and missed out due to covid.

I looked at the one other gym in our area and they only do 9 hours as well (based on the website) so maybe my expectations are unrealistic. But I don't understand why a group of second year silvers are being downgraded in terms of hours? How will they progress and advance?

 

[Dahlialover]

The quality of The hours can be more important than the quantity. I know gyms that do more gymnastics in 10 hours than some gyms do in 20 hours.

 

[Kylie]

I’m a level 7 and at my gym we practice 12 hours a week in summer because there are only 4 of us. So yeah, quantity over quality!

 

[WV Gym Mom]

Our silvers have always done 8 hours - gold 12 - platinum 13ish. I would be more concerned about a third year of silver, especially after training 12/hrs per week. is your gym uptraining? Working with your daughter on what she needs for the next level?

 

[MaryBrooke]

Our silvers have always done 8 hours - gold 12 - platinum 13ish. I would be more concerned about a third year of silver, especially after training 12/hrs per week. is your gym uptraining? Working with your daughter on what she needs for the next level?

I don't think they make the decisions about levels until end of summer, would that make sense?

Quality vs quantity puts my mind at ease. Now, how to ascertain if the Quality is there...

 

[Coach Kate]

Our silvers and golds did 5. The diamonds and sapphires were 9. It's a low hours gym but we have multiple state and regional champions every year.

It's concerning to me to do two years of silver and still not have a back handspring. I might explore some other options.

 

[MaryBrooke]

So it sounds like the back handspring is the red flag I suspected it was. She did pretty much have it her first comp summer season, but that (brilliant) coach left and it's been a series of not great fill ins since then.

I'm frustrated, but don't know if my frustrations are warranted because I don't know the politics of the sport. There's literally only one other gym in our area that has a comp team, and they are very intense (not in a good way) from what I've heard. And she doesn't want to change gyms anyway.

And then of course there is also the possibility that I'm not getting the full picture from my daughter. That thought just occurred to me.

Maybe we should have tried violin when she was a toddler, lol.

 

[estamey21]

I agree with others that three years on Silver is a red flag. My gym does 6 hours /week Silver and that is more than enough time to have a solid competitive season as well as prepare for Gold. About 75% of our gymnasts do one year on Silver and the other 25% do two years. A well-run 12 hour / week program should not see a lot of repeats at lower levels.

While it’s possible that your gym is offering low quality instruction, it’s also possible that your daughter is not putting in the work. For example, many of our two-year Silvers are what I characterize as “low effort gymnasts”: they are easily distracted, cheat on conditioning assignments, take a lot of breaks, etc. Some kids with these kinds of issues sincerely believe that they are working hard because they haven’t yet developed the skill of self reflection and personal accountability.

I obviously don’t know anything about your gym or your daughter, but I just wanted to suggest another potential interpretation of what you’re observing.

 

[MaryBrooke]

I agree with others that three years on Silver is a red flag. My gym does 6 hours /week Silver and that is more than enough time to have a solid competitive season as well as prepare for Gold. About 75% of our gymnasts do one year on Silver and the other 25% do two years. A well-run 12 hour / week program should not see a lot of repeats at lower levels.

While it’s possible that your gym is offering low quality instruction, it’s also possible that your daughter is not putting in the work. For example, many of our two-year Silvers are what I characterize as “low effort gymnasts”: they are easily distracted, cheat on conditioning assignments, take a lot of breaks, etc. Some kids with these kinds of issues sincerely believe that they are working hard because they haven’t yet developed the skill of self reflection and personal accountability.

I obviously don’t know anything about your gym or your daughter, but I just wanted to suggest another potential interpretation of what you’re observing.

Thank you! I do appreciate that, and it suddenly dawned on me this morning that perhaps that is what is happening. I am confident she puts in strong effort for conditioning because I've observed it and she's a Hella strong kid. But maybe the lacking skills are fear so she's avoiding the work.

I appreciate the validation and suggestions, it really helps

 

[estamey21]

But maybe the lacking skills are fear so she's avoiding the work.

Yes, this is another good example of behavioral issues slowing down the progress of a gymnast. One of my students struggles with fear, but she’s not quite ready to admit to herself that she has a problem. This fear manifests as a lot of procrastination and half-baked attempts at working on the fear. Gymnastics training requires brutal honesty (internal and external), and some young athletes need more time to develop this skill.

The last thing I want to add is that the XCEL division is designed to be flexible. This is a blessing and a curse because it can result in a lot of mixed messages from a parent’s point of view. (It can be even more confusing if management and coaches change from season to season.) For example, competitive success is not necessarily a good indicator of growth potential; routines are tailored to the athlete’s strengths, so athletes will often score well regardless of their raw athletic abilities. Furthermore, XCEL programs tend to be more inclusive to a broad range of abilities. Some gyms with more rigorous or exclusive programs might prohibit repeating a level too many times. So instead of kicking your daughter off the team, your gym might be “downgrading” her to a lower hours track based on their assessment of her potential.

These are just my thoughts from a coach’s point of view. Regardless, you should definitely trust your instincts if you think the quality of training isn’t serving your daughter’s gymnastics goals.

 

[MaryBrooke]

Yes, this is another good example of behavioral issues slowing down the progress of a gymnast. One of my students struggles with fear, but she’s not quite ready to admit to herself that she has a problem. This fear manifests as a lot of procrastination and half-baked attempts at working on the fear. Gymnastics training requires brutal honesty (internal and external), and some young athletes need more time to develop this skill.

The last thing I want to add is that the XCEL division is designed to be flexible. This is a blessing and a curse because it can result in a lot of mixed messages from a parent’s point of view. (It can be even more confusing if management and coaches change from season to season.) For example, competitive success is not necessarily a good indicator of growth potential; routines are tailored to the athlete’s strengths, so athletes will often score well regardless of their raw athletic abilities. Furthermore, XCEL programs tend to be more inclusive to a broad range of abilities. Some gyms with more rigorous or exclusive programs might prohibit repeating a level too many times. So instead of kicking your daughter off the team, your gym might be “downgrading” her to a lower hours track based on their assessment of her potential.

These are just my thoughts from a coach’s point of view. Regardless, you should definitely trust your instincts if you think the quality of training isn’t serving your daughter’s gymnastics goals.

Very insightful and I appreciate it!

I have no problem if she's being "downgraded". I just wish it was communicated instead of letting us sit and wonder.

 

[Mthegymqueen]

I would definitely agree with trying to look at other options in a gym that wont have her compete another year of silver.

In my experience, I was on xcel silver for 4 years (granted, one year was during covid, so everyone was held back), and from getting bored in silver at my old gym, and growing, I started to become more afraid of upgrading and learning new skills to points where I had to ask for spots on skills that I competed since my first year as a bronze.

 

[NutterButter]

One other thing you can do to help sus out the quality vs quantity is to look at mymeetscores and see how kids progress through your gym. Things to look for are how many L9/L10s are there? Are they homegrown or did they transfer to your gym? Do see any kids going from Xcel to L6 like they told you they want to do (and if this is a newer policy, how often did kids repeat the lower levels).

I also find it concerning that she doesn't have a BHS after 2 years and with mid-high 9's on all events she clearly has good form even if she isn't competing the most difficult skills allowed in Silver.

PS - your comment about not starting her on violin as a toddler made me LOL and I can relate!

 

[Coach Kate]

PS - your comment about not starting her on violin as a toddler made me LOL and I can relate!

Off topic but when I was a really young coach, I had someone (7y) in beginning rec class for a full year who was still afraid of doing forward rolls down the cheese. I was asking my boss for advice (yet again) and she said "Have you suggested art class?"

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

Thank you! I do appreciate that, and it suddenly dawned on me this morning that perhaps that is what is happening. I am confident she puts in strong effort for conditioning because I've observed it and she's a Hella strong kid. But maybe the lacking skills are fear so she's avoiding the work.

I appreciate the validation and suggestions, it really helps

Equally the coaching situation may be contributing to poor motivation. She had this great coach and had some skills, coach is gone and some of the skills too.
Training should be supervised and structured in a way so she is working on bits of skills and not able to just avoid skills.

If the reduction in hours will mean have good consistent coaching then that is a positive change - but hard for you to know if that is the case or if it will stay that way.

 

[raenndrops]

Regarding not having her back handspring ... We have had Xcel Golds without a back handspring before. One girl ended up getting her back tuck and never did get a back handspring, even after 5 years of drills and spotted ones.
We currently have a girl that has an aerial, but no BHS.
In both of these situations (and others), they compete a front handspring step through to roundoff and their choice of 2nd pass.

 

[MaryBrooke]

Regarding not having her back handspring ... We have had Xcel Golds without a back handspring before. One girl ended up getting her back tuck and never did get a back handspring, even after 5 years of drills and spotted ones.
We currently have a girl that has an aerial, but no BHS.
In both of these situations (and others), they compete a front handspring step through to roundoff and their choice of 2nd pass.

Oh awesome, good to know! We were just discussing this in the car - she thought she for sure needed it for gold.