Coaches Boy repeating L4 or going for it to 5??

[munchkin3]

Any coaches out there....My son is 8 and competed L4...He did fine scored in the 50s.
Coach wants him to do L4 again with bonuses....My Son is really adamant about getting to L5....
He has 4 months left and coach said that in order to get to L5, he must get his GKip and muscle up unassisted...but he finds it unlikely that he will get everything in time......they go for 9hrs a week.....

Should I just be quiet and let coach run the show?? Or should I find a way to help my son achieve his goal ....I have never wanted to get involved with the ever so private coach/gymnast/gym environment, but........

If he went to L5, there would be 2 or 3 existing second year L5s. Only one new L4 would be left....Is this a strategy call?

What is a realistic time frame to get the glide kip, and muscle-up? should I push it with some privates?? I am afriad he will loose drive and confidence if he stays back....

 

[BlairBob]

In 2007, I came to a gym taking over as a boy's coach. One of the boys was 9 and competed in 2008 as a 10 year old. He had one year of level 4, and less than a year in gymnastics when I got there so he was very raw. Boys did 7.5 hours a week besides his 1-2 days of open gym that he stopped when one of the boys quit. He also did trampoline 2 days a week for an hour or two.

In the 2007 season, he did very well getting low to mid 50's and lots of medal and doing well at state. I still wouldn't say his basics were solid and he had flexibility issues. So looking at the 2008 season, it was either do another year at L4 or go L5. I didn't really think about having him just train. This probably would have been a pain in the butt to keep him motivated especially if I was going to compete the other 5 boys doing L4/5. Most were young, but one was returning for his 3rd year at L5 ( however he missed summer/fall due to football training and was not ready for L6 ).

After the end of the season, I ended up getting a lot of flack from his mom about the fact that he never scored 50 as a L5. He got a 48 or 49 and probably could have done 50 at the last qualifier for state and maybe even got into the state meet for however many boys they were accepting. Mom and I decided not to go to state with him because it 3.5h away and the costs and unlikelihood he would make state.

Honestly, looking at where his basics were at the beginning and end of the season, I didn't predict a 50. He actually got some medals for his really good High Bar routine eventually usually getting bonus for kip cast. His other events were all over the place.

He also suffered from problems I believe of not eating enough and it really aggravated me. He got quite a few of headaches or just would not have enough energy to complete workouts or workout at all.

His first meet I spotted him on his ROBH just for safety. He eventually competed this himself. He eventually got his BH pretty much by himself from working in his trampoline team class, getting used to a lot of backwards skills like peanut roll and back drop to handstand.

He did not have consistent circles the entire season so he got killed on his mushroom score. I don't think he had 2-3 circles in December, but eventually he got 2-5 by Spring. However, the spindle was tough on him.

He still was very leery of swinging to HS on PB. His handstands were fairly poor in general from his basic HS, to his pirouette to his front handspring. His headspring was good though.

While he had a decent enough L4 pommel routine, his swing was still poor for false scissors and scissors. Eventually, it got decent when he learned to be patient but this was a boy forever plagued by not eating enough. It eventually got to the point, that I would check on him eating before practice, at snack time and after practice by keeping PB&J in the fridge and cheese.

His rings could be good once he learned to be patient. However, he was taught a piked inlocate before me by the optional guy and this plagued him a bit.

As for vault, he had a decent front tuck on tramp but he was a fairly uncoordinated kid. However, his vault score could be in 9's but it was typically a mess to the board. I called it " the runaway train. " This was from a kid from a family of dancers. However, he was known to be uncoordinated when he first got into the gym.

This was also a kid who had his eyes on collegiate gymnastics. He is a real bright kid who is a hard worker. He did not want to do L4 at all, though we could probably have won some team trophies like they did in 07'.

I ended up taking back the returning L5 who was a real pain to him, since he got to being a jock in football. He was scrawny, barely big enough, but he was rambunctious. I wanted him back to challenge this new L5 because there was no other boys to look up to which was difficult on him when our L7/Elite in training left the gym due to a family dispute from a sister who was a L5 and the girl's coach.

This year, I don't know if he will try L6 or just not compete, so he can do L6 next year and focus on training skills. Our goal for him was to get him out of compulsories as fast as possible to L10 by his junior year. He didn't really care too much about competing for trophies and that aspect as he really wanted to go to BYU ( like Guard Young since he was Mormon ) and compete in college.

That boy did end up getting his kip on high bar which isn't a glide kip but a long hang kip. Quite easier. He was still having a tough time with glide kip on PB and single rail due to pike compression. However, simply working a lot of leg lifts and V holds and assisted muscle up, straight arm jumping supports/kip machine got him his kip in time. In fact, because he was patient and smart he got a decent kip cast versus the returning L5 that was never patient and also bent his legs and arms in his kip.

Unfortunately, he did not get his MU and back lever on rings or strict press on floor. Lack of hip flexor compression didn't help him but he was very close to it. He never developed a lot of strength in the dip portion of the muscle-up and I think this was partially in fault due to a lack of protein and energy in his diet. He did get a pretty good L sit on rings for 30 seconds and he had decent pull strength but not push strength. It also showed up on his support during swing on pommels.

 

[BlairBob]

Wow, that's going to be a long read.

It would also be easier on the coach to take 2 boys to L4 instead of just 1. It was a real pain to only take 1 level 5 to meets during the season.

Btw, I did make that boy team captain and he was older than yours ( and from a big family and being a middle child ). Originally I wanted to pass team captain around every 2 or 3 weeks but the other boys were just too young and immature. Eventually, I was accused of favoritism because he was hard working and frankly, I tend to put more effort and time into harder working kids.

I also had more of a conundrum of him being a new L5 and the other boys being returning L4( even if they were young ). 2 of the L4's were new as well, one only being 5/6, the other going on 9 ( and he only trained 1 day a week and got a 50! though he was lacking in strength and time and it showed - I did allow this due to his schedule and let him and his mom know that if he wanted to excel, they would have to put more time in. )

 

[munchkin3]

thanks for the long insight....now I will get more specific!

I spoke with the coaches and we cleared up a lot of things and decided to keep my Son in L4 again. Let me give you some history....

My Son started in 2006...with a very negative coach...he would swear at them, he would allow older boys to pick on the little guys....a really negative place for him and when I found out, I removed him from there right away.

We got to a new gym, very professional, with boys the same age as my son (different levels) and a very good Russian coach. He said my son had mastered very little at the old gym and had many holes. He could do a back Hip Crcl easily and a pullover, but not an easy back roll.
So he started him from scratch ...So as far as the coach is concearned, my kid has been on a real team for 1 year. (even though my son feels 2 yrs).

For this season most kids will remain at the same level as last year. My kid gets along better with the level 5 and 6's. He is better friends with them. The 2 level 4s are a problem for him. One kid 7 yrs old, has turned into a gloater. Everything he does is better than everyone else....even though it isn't...This has begun taking a toll on my kid...he is doubting his ability and is comparing.
The other L4 is a tiny 8 yr old with severe attention issues. He is constantly sidetracking my son, who also does not have very good attention or focus.

I spoke with the coaches, brought my concerns to them....They agree on the kid with behavior problems, and did not realize the other kid was cutting everyone down....

I told them my kid gets discouraged easily, and just to try and keep him focused on small feats...maybe daily ones vs. monthly ones....
Keep the distractive kid away from mine. The rest is their business...

The coaches also told me that for every kid there is a moment that the begin to realize gymnastics is not a sport with quick results.....not even results per year, but results over many years....this is tough for kids to handle.
Also the Russian way of coaching is all or none.....there is no 'almost mastering the skill'....

The L4' will do all of their bonuses, and are working L5 skills for next season....
I guess this is better in the long run...
Thanks for your input!!

J

 

[jes.the.gymnast]

when i was in level 5 my team and i were going really well and winning almost everything went went to but our coach made us do level 5 again at the time it was anoying and we didn't understand why. it was the best thing i could have done. It was a big step going up to level 6 and having alot of the skills already and doing them well helped ALOT

 

[BlairBob]

That 7 and 8 year old sounded like the other 9/10yo I had. He was actually supposed to be ADHD as well and on meds. Football only inflated his ego and while he did have some talent, there was a lot of slop in his technique in gym.

I was actually trying to split the group into a 9 and above and 8 and below group. Numbers didn't let it happen. I prefer age grouping, especially with boys compared to leveling.

That's another thing, with the kids I got I really had to a lot of babysitting and coddling. Honestly, I prefer to train my kids to be very intrinsic and not so much about admiration and congratulation. That is also my mindset, though. With the uber 7yo I had, I think he just got too much admiration and congratulation due to the fact he was the little child in a big fam, and an adorable lil bugger in the gym compared to many of the other kids. At school, we was Mr. Super Awesome and IMO it got out of hand.

There is something to be said about doing 2 years at a level especially for L4. However the 10yo in question was 2 years older than your 8yo. Big difference between an 8yo and 10yo boy, especially one with collegiate ambitions. Especially if I could get him in the gym 15-20hours a week easily.

 

[munchkin3]

We deal with our kid very matter of fact....x+y=z....
We also have passed the point of gymnastics being cute for a little boy...
The little 7 year old is treated VERY ...hmmmm....inflated....but that comes from home mostly....His parents tell him he is the best and will go to the Olympics....he needs SO much approval from coach!!! (poor kid)

The 8 yr old with ADD is very new....his mom is aware that he causes problem to others so at least that's good.....I think things will change in him a bit after his first competition.....who knows.....

As a parent I need to make sure MY kid is ready to train, has energy, is happy, and eager....and keep an eye out for problems .......the rest is for the coach.....I brought my worries to him and now I must butt out.......( I always will keep a watchful distant eye on my boy though!)

thanks alot for your input, It makes a big difference to us parents talking to coaches like you all....it keeps me in my place!...J

 

[BlairBob]

Mom was pretty cool but an ex-cheerleader. However, it really was the other gym kids that perpetuated it. Mom tended to be hard on him because he would try to whine or play the cute or talented card a lot.

My whole point of training from the earliest ages for them to be tough is more so that they can be useful children and people later in life. If they are tough, they will last longer and train harder. That lil bugger always hated conditioning, but I used to have boys that would torture themselves to set a new record or beat coach.