WAG Conditioning as Punishment: Yes or No?

[profmom]

If my kid is fooling around or not paying attention, I would like for the coach to implement some kind of consequence. I don't think excessive conditioning should be used, but no one ever died from a rope climb (or more than one for optionals) or 25-50 pushups. I have no real stake in what precise technique is used to maintain order and respect (pushups, hollow rocks, sending a kid out, scolding, whatever); it's more about how the coach handles it for me. If pushups or rope climbs or whatever happen all the time as a result of losing a contest or as part of a conditioning set, I don't think it hurts at all for them to be used as a discipline technique. If, however, the only time they ever happen is for discipline and they are used inconsistently, then I'm more likely to have issues as a parent. I also don't have issues with group consequences for the most part unless they are excessive. A good team should have members who hold each other accountable for doing their best.

And obviously a coach should be treating a pack of rowdy and hormonal optionals differently than a pack of six to seven year old L4s.

 

[skschlag]

If my kid is fooling around or not paying attention, I would like for the coach to implement some kind of consequence. I don't think excessive conditioning should be used, but no one ever died from a rope climb (or more than one for optionals) or 25-50 pushups. I have no real stake in what precise technique is used to maintain order and respect (pushups, hollow rocks, sending a kid out, scolding, whatever); it's more about how the coach handles it for me. If pushups or rope climbs or whatever happen all the time as a result of losing a contest or as part of a conditioning set, I don't think it hurts at all for them to be used as a discipline technique. If, however, the only time they ever happen is for discipline and they are used inconsistently, then I'm more likely to have issues as a parent. I also don't have issues with group consequences for the most part unless they are excessive. A good team should have members who hold each other accountable for doing their best.

And obviously a coach should be treating a pack of rowdy and hormonal optionals differently than a pack of six to seven year old L4s.

Exactly. Our boys play a stick game, where if they stick a standing back tuck, everyone else does a burpee. If they don't stick, they do 2 burpees. Stick a standing back pike, everyone else does a rope climb, miss it, you do 2. Stick a standing back lay, it is sit ups, and stick a standing back full, it is v-ups. (only one coach can do a standing back full). it is just a part of their games. Goofing off can result in rope climbs, burpees, vups, etc. but not in a punitive way. It is more of a "I can see you need more to do" way.

Anytime something is overly punitive, or not connected in some way to the event, it is going to backfire

 

[CoachMeg]

Thanks for all the replies. Some of you have horror stories (400 pushups/rope welt burns), that I was in no way referring to. The conditioning "punishment" was more for instances like Suzie not pointing her toes when landing her leap on beam 10 times in a row after constant correction. Suzie is perfectly able to point her toes, she does not have a physical disability. FINALLY after you get on her, Suzie points her toes. Once she *thinks* you are looking away, Suzie practices 5 more leaps landing with a sloppy back leg/foot. Granted Suzie is only 8, but she knows what she's doing wrong and how to fix it. "The next leap you do with a flexed foot, you're going to do 10 push-ups". Magically, Suzie does every single leap with a pointed toe the rest of the workout. Sometimes just the warning alone fixes it. But the next day when Suzie tries to pull the stunt with you and does sloppy leap landings.....no. 10 pushups off the bat. And voila, perfect leaps the rest of the day.

I will say, fast forward to today and this particular Suzie has beautiful looking leaps on beam

 

[CoachMeg]

And to further clarify, "punishment conditioning" at my gym is not used daily, or even weekly for that matter. Hardly even monthly. BUT, it is used occasionally (as in my instance above). My question was more, conditioning OR sitting out the rest of that event/get sent home? Which is more preferred. I think conditioning sometimes can work equally as well. And if it doesn't, well, you're being sent home. 1st strike warning, 2nd strike either conditioning/sitting out, 3rd strike sent home.

This thread makes my gym sound like we have a lot of behavioral problems, lol...we don't! Just a thread I haven't seen posted. When I was reading a thread earlier about a gymnast purposely landing on her bottom after tumbling, someone commented "have her climb the rope!", and it sparked my interest on other gym's take on the subject.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I am going to give a different take on this. Both of my kids have ADHD and SPD. I will not debate it, I live it. We have been going to OT for 2 years. 1 recommendation that we were given by OT was to do big muscle exercise. So we incorporate conditioning when the kids are getting out of control. They understand it is to help them focus and calm down. And it works! S doesn't work,.

You are confusing the activity with the purpose.

Conditioning is good on many levels and for many reasons. What we are against is as punishment.

For your kids it's therapeutic, that's not punishment.

For a bad skill on say beam, saying lets do this (conditioning) drill, exercise to help the skill. That is not punishment.

It's not oh you all are giggling so do a bunch of pull ups, that's punishment.

 

[gymdog]

Thanks for all the replies. Some of you have horror stories (400 pushups/rope welt burns), that I was in no way referring to. The conditioning "punishment" was more for instances like Suzie not pointing her toes when landing her leap on beam 10 times in a row after constant correction. Suzie is perfectly able to point her toes, she does not have a physical disability. FINALLY after you get on her, Suzie points her toes. Once she *thinks* you are looking away, Suzie practices 5 more leaps landing with a sloppy back leg/foot. Granted Suzie is only 8, but she knows what she's doing wrong and how to fix it. "The next leap you do with a flexed foot, you're going to do 10 push-ups". Magically, Suzie does every single leap with a pointed toe the rest of the workout. Sometimes just the warning alone fixes it. But the next day when Suzie tries to pull the stunt with you and does sloppy leap landings.....no. 10 pushups off the bat. And voila, perfect leaps the rest of the day.

I will say, fast forward to today and this particular Suzie has beautiful looking leaps on beam

I don't really know if that is "punishment" to me, however in this example Suzie would be doing 10 back leg drives with pointed toes for me after each unacceptable leap, not push ups. But usually I have it structured so they have one chance to show me. If their foot is not pointed I say "point your back foot! Try 10 more!" and move to the next person. If I notice they are not practicing or being ridiculous, they know I'll skip them when I make the next round. When they finish the menu of routine skills and drills for the day, they get to work on the next level of acro skills, so they don't want to be skipped or have to repeat.

 

[fuzi]

My gym has a rule against conditioning as punishment, and I think that is a good thing. We want our kids to like conditioning, or at the very least, to understand its importance and appreciate how it helps their gymnastics.

If a gymnast is repetitively struggling with part of a skill, it is usually because they don't understand or they don't yet have the physical ability or coordination. I might give them an exercise to do to help them achieve the skill, but it is not framed as punishment. It's something like, "I can see you are struggling with making your kip because you are not quite strong enough in your stomach muscles to pull your toes to the bar. After you do two spotted kips with me and then try one by yourself, I want you to add in a station where you do 5 leg-lifts and then a 5-second toe-to-bar hold."

If someone is upset or unfocused, I will ask them to calm down, go get a sip of water, and come back when they are ready to work. Very rarely (I think I can think of twice in the last four years), I have had a group of gymnasts who were just being way too silly to the point that it was unsafe. Then it became, "I can tell you are not focused enough to do beam right now and it is unsafe to be practicing these skills when you are not focused, so we are going to go do conditioning instead today." Still, it wasn't crazy punishment like 10 rope-climbs or 400 push-ups. They have a periodized conditioning program with lists that change throughout the season. They simply went and worked through their list because it was a productive use of time and they were not in a mindset to safely do their event work.

 

[CCGymbug]

Idw4mlo, I am sorry I do not think my point got across. Conditioning can be used as a therapeutic tool for all children and if we change our mindset that it can help a child mentally as well as physically it isn't IMO considered punishment but more of a reset. My answer was in response to lack of focus, playing around.

 

[eucoach]

I would never ever use conditioning as punishment for something that is not directly related to it. I don't think making a kid condition for not paying attention, talking or goofing off will lead to anything. I'd rather try and figure out how I can prevent them from doing these things.

IMO there is only one scenario that justifies conditioning as punishment. I have a gymnast who always breaks her falls with her arms when she overrotates something. She knows she's not supposed to do it because it's dangerous but she has a very hard time remembering it (she's stubborn). I told her that she needs to get her arms a lot stronger so she won't break them and have her do 20 push-ups whenever that happens. You can imagine that it's a lot easier for her to remember not to reach behind her back now. ;-)

 

[Musicmama]

Regarding situations where children aren't paying attention, when I've taught larger (music) classes before, it's been helpful to have the group of children follow directions that get them moving - put your hands on your head, do ten jumping jacks, etc. - in order to get their focus back on listening.

So, that's the context in which I was thinking of conditioning being used to bring goofing off children's focus back. Not to have them do difficult or disliked exercises or at all in a punitive way, but to have them do something physical that requires they follow directions in order to pull their attention back to the teacher (or coach).

It has worked for me in other situations and hasn't been seen as punitive by the children, but I could very well be mistaken that it would work or be beneficial in a gymnastics setting.

 

[AmandaLynn]

I would never ever use conditioning as punishment for something that is not directly related to it. I don't think making a kid condition for not paying attention, talking or goofing off will lead to anything. I'd rather try and figure out how I can prevent them from doing these things.

IMO there is only one scenario that justifies conditioning as punishment. I have a gymnast who always breaks her falls with her arms when she overrotates something. She knows she's not supposed to do it because it's dangerous but she has a very hard time remembering it (she's stubborn). I told her that she needs to get her arms a lot stronger so she won't break them and have her do 20 push-ups whenever that happens. You can imagine that it's a lot easier for her to remember not to reach behind her back now. ;-)

I don't do push ups or ropes for this, as it is a serious safety issue that needs to be corrected with reinforcing the correct way to fall when over rotating backward. If I have kids that break their fall by placing their hands behind them, they do a straight TON of candlestick jumps. The number varies by level/ability. I don't have it happen often.

This reinforces the motion that they should be using to break their fall. In cases like this, it isn't usually a conscious attempt to do something incorrectly, but merely a natural instinct that must be broken.

Technical errors usually get assignments that include a bunch if repetitive drills (which sometimes look like conditioning, if I am being honest).

Stubbornness, disrespect, or goofing off after being warned to knock it off usually get rope climbs, leg lifts, or occasionally push ups.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Idw4mlo, I am sorry I do not think my point got across. Conditioning can be used as a therapeutic tool for all children and if we change our mindset that it can help a child mentally as well as physically it isn't IMO considered punishment but more of a reset. My answer was in response to lack of focus, playing around.

I get it. The question was conditioning for punishment yes or no.

Therapeutically it is not punishment.