WAG Cross handstand, legs in split...new level 3

[twisting007bigflip]

Can someone define this for me? Does the split need to be parallel to the ceiling for it to count with no deduction? Or is this more of a "lever hop" where they can kick up to a partial handstand and never join their feet?

Also, after watching the American cup, the elites are no longer able to swing their arms to gain connection...does this rule apply to the jump series on beam and floor also in compulsories?? like this? Or no?

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Anyone know?

 

[2G1B]

our coaches are having the girls practice this and I don't think any of them can do it to parallel like in the picture. Instead they are going about as wide as they can. Not the same as not making it all of the way to the handstand - their bodies are perpendicular to the floor. the girls just can't get that far out to a split, while being on the beam, with their legs in the air. That sure would seem like an advanced skill for this level to this mom who really knows nothing...

So remember to take anything I say with a grain of salt.

 

[twisting007bigflip]

What about this:

 

[2G1B]

Again, this is just me as a mom observing what the coaches have been doing with my girls... but that looks more like what the level 2 AAU girls do to me. The coaches definitely have our girls taking that other leg further back so it is more like a split jump; but translated to a handstand.

 

[2G1B]

just for clarification, I have a DD currently AAU 2 and another currently AAU3. They are swapping to USAG next year and my older DD is working on her USAG current 4, new 3, skills.

 

[chalkbowl]

There is no split requirement in the level 3 handstand, so the legs will not have to be perfectly parallel to the floor.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

Our girls are learning it like the top picture, just not in a 180 degree split. They are also not supposed to bring their legs together at the top to make a handstand at all. Just up with the legs split some then back down.

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Ok - I am no artist, but...

Number 1 would obviously work,

Does number 2 work? Without hips over shoulders? Or...

Do their hips have to make it over their shoulders for them to get credit?

Previously (or currently) it is a partial cross handstand with feet joining, they do not have to handstand to vertical...basically, I just want to know of Rey have to obtain vertical with no split requirement, or if a partial cross handstand in a split with no angle requirement will work?

 

[iwannacoach]

I can't promise but I think a bit closer to the handstand than #2 will get credit. The drawing shows the legs tilted so far from parallel to the floor that the judges would have a hard time allowing credit, but they try to give credit when possible and deduct accordingly to reflect the the difference between the better handstands and the not so good handstands.

The good news is these things get a little better each week if you work at them.

 

[Gymmommy71]

A kid would have to be really flexible in the legs to pull #1 off (a 180 degree split in a handstand)...there wouldn't be as much momentum pushing the legs out like in a leap, jump or a split on the ground. I can't imagine they'd require that degree of flexibility for a Level 3 (essentially a current L4). It will be interesting to see it defined better though.

 

[onebusymama]

A kid would have to be really flexible in the legs to pull #1 off (a 180 degree split in a handstand)...there wouldn't be as much momentum pushing the legs out like in a leap, jump or a split on the ground. I can't imagine they'd require that degree of flexibility for a Level 3 (essentially a current L4). It will be interesting to see it defined better though.

I would have to agree. I think that not every kid is going to have it perfect (pic #1), but I think that is what they are wanting them to do.... But it does seem a bit tough for a lvl 3

 

[gymdog]

There aren't really 180 split requirements in level 4 except the split on floor (based on past cycles anyway) so I doubt it will require a 180 split. There hasn't traditionally been a "hold" requirement at this level either. The proposal specifically says "mark - no angle requirement" and I assume there will be clarification in the form of the specific deductions for major elements when the text comes up. My assumption is that they will have to show true inversion (so a donkey kick would incur a deduction).

 

[gralch1]

Am I the only coach who thinks this is a step back? Current Level 3 and 4 have a straight handstand. IMHO having a split handstand will compromise the straight body position in a handstand. Gymnasts will tend to arch to hold the split handstand. A straight body is important in all events (handspring vault, proper position in casting on bars, HS forward roll and BER on floor, etc.)

 

[AmandaLynn]

Am I the only coach who thinks this is a step back? Current Level 3 and 4 have a straight handstand. IMHO having a split handstand will compromise the straight body position in a handstand. Gymnasts will tend to arch to hold the split handstand. A straight body is important in all events (handspring vault, proper position in casting on bars, HS forward roll and BER on floor, etc.)

ehh... I disagree. I think that a split handstand reduces the fear a bit, as the front leg kind of keeps some weight on the front side of the handstand, making it easier to balance and less likely to fall over to the back side.

I feel like kids would be more likely to kick to a "vertical" (at least from the hands through the shoulders and to the hips) handstand in a split than they would with feet joining together. If they must touch their feet together, and they have a fear of kicking too hard/falling backward, they tend to close the shoulder angle, to avoid hitting true vertical. Eventually, they learn where vertical is, and how hard/far they need to kick to get there and not fall over, but for some kids, the closed shoulder angle remains a problem.

And I've always hated the "Partial cross handstand" in level 3 for exactly this reason.

 

[twisting007bigflip]

All I know is that I am having a heck of a time getting my kids who are used to doing cross handstands and touching their feet to do the cross handstand to "vertical" in a split (regardless of split angle) we have spent countless hours practicing and still I end up watching more of a lever hop or mule kick than a true handstand. This is why I am concerned about the actual requirement and what deduction my kids will likely incur at the beginning of the season. Like, even when we practice on floor they are either kicking too far and go over into a walkover or they don't hit "vertical" with a split.

 

[gymdog]

Am I the only coach who thinks this is a step back? Current Level 3 and 4 have a straight handstand. IMHO having a split handstand will compromise the straight body position in a handstand. Gymnasts will tend to arch to hold the split handstand. A straight body is important in all events (handspring vault, proper position in casting on bars, HS forward roll and BER on floor, etc.)

Neither level 3 or 4 currently has a straight handstand. They have a 3/4 handstand. Level 5 has vertical handstand. The goal of this is to get the children to kick the back leg to/past vertical.

As far as if the children can't do it...do not spend endless hours practicing this. Go back to conditioning, prep, and wall handstands. This does not take countless hours of prep...not an efficient use of time. If you need specific information on the preparation and prerequisite for this skill, I will be happy to provide a more detailed outline. I only intro handstand on beam when I am sure the children can go to vertical.

 

[twisting007bigflip]

I don't think I need a detailed outline, as I understand the requisite for the skill...and I'm not literally spending "countless hours"....just frustrated that I've spent the last 16 years training this age group of little ones to hit vertical and join legs, now I'm having to teach them to to remain split. Just having a hard time getting them to "get" it, which is why I asked in the first place if they needed complete inversion or if a partial handstand with nonspecific split degree would suffice.

 

[AmandaLynn]

All I know is that I am having a heck of a time getting my kids who are used to doing cross handstands and touching their feet to do the cross handstand to "vertical" in a split (regardless of split angle) we have spent countless hours practicing and still I end up watching more of a lever hop or mule kick than a true handstand. This is why I am concerned about the actual requirement and what deduction my kids will likely incur at the beginning of the season. Like, even when we practice on floor they are either kicking too far and go over into a walkover or they don't hit "vertical" with a split.

This may seem like a silly question, but are they able to do a split handstand on the floor?

 

[twisting007bigflip]

For the most part, yes, I suppose. They understand the concept, just can't hold it for any length of time bc 1, they haven't been doing them but for a couple of weeks, and 2, most of them still haven't found their "sweet spot" and either kick too hard and go into a walkover or don't kick hard enough and therefore can't hold it