WAG Discussion of abuse in USAG - Nassar

[sce]

http://eng.gymnovosti.com/scherbo-im-used-to-getting-what-i-want-from-women/

The overall sentiment in this interview from both Scherbo and his mother is just disturbing and honestly a picture of what is a huge part of this pervasive culture!! Just....gross.

That is awful! He owns a gym and he and his wife are both coaches. That is not a person I would want coaching my kid. Vitaly may be a decorated gymnast but I care about character too. Kids spend a lot of time with their coaches, his attitude about women and his ego are awful!

 

[amiandjim]

Agreed. Gutsu’s accusation aside (although I tend to believe her), that interview alone would be enough for me to pull my kid immediately.

I know it’s been harped on, but I will re-emphasize...sexual abuse NEVER leaves you. I was abused by a very close family member at age 5-7 and although I have a very happy family life, it has and still does affect my view daily. It’s just not something you ever “get over or forget”. EVER.

 

[coachmolly]

Regarding child abuse prevention:

Coaching staff deciding if parents should be “Allowed”, or not, to watch their own (minor) children practice sports is an outdated concept from several decades ago. The world has moved on, and current expectations are certainly much different.

When parents are “Allowed” unlimited access to their children (i.e. made welcome to watch any and all practices, visit with their children at training camps, etc.), then a few things happen:

1. We think coaches aren’t trying to hide questionable interactions with our children.
2. Credibility of the system increases exponentially because of openness.
3. We can sense much quicker when something isn’t right with our own child.
4. Most parents would not watch practices most of the time.

In gymnastics, it also makes it much more likely that we will “Allow” a gym to coach our children.

I almost never watch practices. I intermittently (rarely) do spot checks. However, I need to know that I can check up on my child’s environment – anytime, without notice.

Sometimes HC and I talk about how nice a "no team parent's allowed" policy would be, but I know we'll never actually go through with it because of these reasons. We don't love parents that sit and scrutinize every minute of practice, but we also don't want parents to feel like we are hiding something. So children aren't allowed to talk to parents during practice, but we allow them to be there. And most parents are responsible in their viewing habits. And really, being annoyed by a select few parents who abuse that privilege is a small price to pay for ensuring safety of the kids.

 

[raenndrops]

My problem is every gymnast that has trained for years and made it to an elite level and comes in the top 5 at nationals probably deserves a chance to compete on the world level. To be left home because another gymnast has one good event is not really in the spirit of sport.

When we can only send 2 to AA finals, and 2 to each event final, it does actually make sense to maximize medals.
Especially when sometimes, the top 3 AA are all US gymnasts.

 

[AlijahsMom]

But that's part of my point. Having the no parents policy sets them up to be groomed as a "what happens in the gym stays in the gym" type of situation. Also, as previously mentioned, I was abused sexually for years as a child by my uncle. The first thing he always said when he was done was not to tell anyone and that it was our secret. I was 2 when it began, but the telling me it was a secret came later. And what did I do? I kept it a secret because at the time, I had no clue what was going on anyway. When I did try to tell my mom, she laughed it off because like most abusers, it was called a "game" or "wrestling." Same with Nassar, it was "treatment." A gymnast going home saying they received a treatment from a doctor is not necessarily going to set off alarm bells in a parents head.

On a side note. I have to mention that a big issue with this is also how prude our country truly is. People are afraid of their kids even knowing abuse is a possibility or knowing the anatomical names for their genitalia. My daughter is 2 and I don't refer to them as anything but penis and vagina and that's what they are. There's nothing gross about them. Also, if a child uses the correct name a predator is more likely to back off, they prefer the innocence. Also, in court, if a kid says "john touch my muffin" they guy can walk free because it's not an accurate description of what happened.

 

[raenndrops]

But that's part of my point. Having the no parents policy sets them up to be groomed as a "what happens in the gym stays in the gym" type of situation. Also, as previously mentioned, I was abused sexually for years as a child by my uncle. The first thing he always said when he was done was not to tell anyone and that it was our secret. I was 2 when it began, but the telling me it was a secret came later. And what did I do? I kept it a secret because at the time, I had no clue what was going on anyway. When I did try to tell my mom, she laughed it off because like most abusers, it was called a "game" or "wrestling." Same with Nassar, it was "treatment." A gymnast going home saying they received a treatment from a doctor is not necessarily going to set off alarm bells in a parents head.

On a side note. I have to mention that a big issue with this is also how prude our country truly is. People are afraid of their kids even knowing abuse is a possibility or knowing the anatomical names for their genitalia. My daughter is 2 and I don't refer to them as anything but penis and vagina and that's what they are. There's nothing gross about them. Also, if a child uses the correct name a predator is more likely to back off, they prefer the innocence. Also, in court, if a kid says "john touch my muffin" they guy can walk free because it's not an accurate description of what happened.

I get what you are saying about proper terms, but technically, shouldn't it be penis and vulva since the vulva is external?

 

[Seeker]

This sentiment has been making rounds lately, and as the father of two girls, it's really shaking me up. Can it really be true? How can it exist for so long? I can't wrap my head around the idea of it.

I guarantee you it’s true. It’s a sobering reality, but it is the absolute truth of where we’re at in this country at least (obviously many others as well). I am a rather high placed professional in a male-dominated industry. I have stories. Lots of them. I now have a reputation of being someone not to be messed with and while I’m pretty proud of that, I should not have had to ‘earn’ that.

Having an awareness of the landscape helps.
Having self-awareness helps.
Having self-confidence helps.

But it’s a jungle out there and it hasn’t gotten much better in the 20+ years I’ve been working. I’m not as much of a target as I was at 25, but things still happen that shouldn’t. I am pretty sure the scenario hasn’t changed much at all across the younger demographic. Unfortunately, every new group of people you meet either personally or professionally is another potential scenario to navigate. It hasn’t ended or really changed much at all honestly — I’m just much more skilled at avoiding or handling these things. It’s still a boys club pretty much everywhere.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

When I think of the term “gentleman,” I in no way associate it with “gentleman’s club.”

I am raising three boys, and I am raising them to be gentleman. My husband and I are teaching them an others first mentality, to treat others with respect and kindness, and to respect those in position of authority, as well as holding a door open for a woman and allowing ladies to go first. My husband also sets a good example for our boys in the way that he loves and helps me. Children learn by watching.

And since they learn by watching, I am not sure that we should really be surprised by how some men treat women with the prevalence that pornography has in our culture. Hollywood also isn’t doing us any favors by objectifying women. If you want to raise boys that grow into men that respect women, a good start would be to keep them away from the screens and tbe filth out of your homes.

And while the Women’s March may have seemed great in theory, what did it actually accomplish? What piece of legislation empowering or advancing women did it help to pass? Did it bring any actual tangible benefits? The money spent on hotels rooms could have been used to buy a struggling single mom groceries. Or all the time and traveling and marching could have been spent calling and writing and lobbying our representatives to pass meaningful legislation that could actually bring change. To me, that would have been a much better use of time and resources. Because I don’t think demanding respect while marching in the street topless or leaving trash all over the streets in DC made quite the impression or difference that was hoped for.

 

[RTT2]

When I think of the term “gentleman,” I in no way associate it with “gentleman’s club.”

And while the Women’s March may have seemed great in theory, what did it actually accomplish? What piece of legislation empowering or advancing women did it help to pass? Did it bring any actual tangible benefits? The money spent on hotels rooms could have been used to buy a struggling single mom groceries. Or all the time and traveling and marching could have been spent calling and writing and lobbying our representatives to pass meaningful legislation that could actually bring change. To me, that would have been a much better use of time and resources. Because I don’t think demanding respect while marching in the street topless or leaving trash all over the streets in DC made quite the impression or difference that was hoped for.

So much I'd like to say, but in this forum I'll choose to stay moderator compliant.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

So much I'd like to say, but in this forum I'll choose to stay moderator compliant.

I didn’t think my post was really that political but if it can be taken that way, I’ll delete it.

 

[Texasmomof3]

I think teaching boys that females are lesser and weaker, such that they need protection, doors opened, etc. is a big part of the problem. I taught my boys that women are people. Period.

If someone, male or female, needs help, help them. Treat everyone with respect, and part of that respect is recognizing that they are fully capable humans in their own right.

These old fashioned attitudes of male dominance are what created the historical discrimination, mistreatment and subjugation of certain classes, races and genders of people. Why would anyone want more of the same, unless they like how things used to be?

 

[duyetanh]

I held the door the other day for a man who was going into the gym as i was coming out. He said thanks, and i went on my way....

 

[Sasha]

I think teaching boys that females are lesser and weaker, such that they need protection, doors opened, etc. is a big part of the problem. I taught my boys that women are people. Period.

If someone, male or female, needs help, help them. Treat everyone with respect, and part of that respect is recognizing that they are fully capable humans in their own right.

These old fashioned attitudes of male dominance are what created the historical discrimination, mistreatment and subjugation of certain classes, races and genders of people. Why would anyone want more of the same, unless they like how things used to be?

^ ^ ^ ^ Preach. ^ ^ ^ ^

This whole association of the word "gentleman" with the concept of holding doors (among other things like carrying packages and paying for things) for the implied 'weaker, more delicate, less capable female' needs to end. Abruptly.

 

[John]

^ ^ ^ ^ Preach. ^ ^ ^ ^

This whole association of the word "gentleman" with the concept of holding doors (among other things like carrying packages and paying for things) for the implied 'weaker, more delicate, less capable female' needs to end. Abruptly.

Maybe not. Maybe any sex human with hands full should be helped by another human regardless of the helpers sex? I'd surely appreciate any help.

Humans must stop using sex to sell things and to gain advantage in any situation. We should base rewards and success on merit. Doing the previous opens doors for predatory action.

 

[chalkbowl]

As a female I hold doors open for any human being walking in through that door behind me, because I think it's rude to let a door slam in someones face.

 

[Seeker]

Maybe not. Maybe any sex human with hands full should be helped by another human regardless of the helpers sex? I'd surely appreciate any help.

Humans must stop using sex to sell things and to gain advantage in any situation. We should base rewards and success on merit. Doing the previous opens doors for predatory action.

You basically re-stated exactly what you quoted. Help someone who needs help (ie because their hands are full, as in your example). People don’t inherently need help because of their gender.

 

[John]

A humans sex like their race should be ignored. Be kind to all that deserve kindness. Arguing questionable at best.

 

[CoachMeg]

Because I don’t think demanding respect while marching in the street topless or leaving trash all over the streets in DC made quite the impression or difference that was hoped for.

You seem to be missing the point entirely.

 

[sce]

A humans sex like their race should be ignored. Be kind to all that deserve kindness. Arguing questionable at best.

See, I disagree about ignoring race and gender. We are all unique people and our race a scgdnder are part of our identity. But those things should not have anything to do with how valuable any person is.

 

[John]

You are always entitled to your own point of view. My point was simply helping someone should be based on the need for help and nothing more. I see nothing wrong with a man helping a woman or a woman helping a man or two women helping each other no matter the race Etc. Race does indeed contribute to who we are. But maybe all races should attempt to learn more about eachother. Don't judge until you have walked in someone else's shoes.