Does this make sense?

[gym law mom]

Ok, maybe I'm missing something here, but I just don't get what is being suggested for my gymmie and am increasingly frustrated with the coaches. Child competed last season as a L8. The team had 2 coaches--1 did floor/beam, other did vault/bars. They knew nothing about what the gymnasts were doing on the events they didn't coach( team had 6 girls). Left my kid literally alone at the state meet because she wouldn't tell them what she needed them to do??? Meet was at former gym which held many negative memories. They both admit they "gave up trying to coach."
Ok, during the summer, gymmie was kept in their training group. One of the coaches had blown up at her right after states telling her she would repeat L8, but then denied it. Sorry coach, I remember my child coming home in tears that night and then heard all about the "yelling at the bars" from other parents. That group had fewer practice hours than a group that was going to compete 6/7! So, she did work on all of her L9 skills over the summer---got most of them with beam being the challenge, but even a big step up there. We asked to have her moved to the other training group with different/more experienced coaches--no sorry not going to happen. Her current bar/vault coach has never coached L9 yet was teaching L9 vaults/bars skills.
Fast forward to skills eval. She doesn't make it to L9. Will be kept with same coaches from last year. I expressed my concern that this will not work as gymmie has no confidence in them after the disaster at L8 states. So, they tell her they will let her warm up L9 skills(like her back 1.5; double back on bars, step in/toe shoot) in the timed warm ups at her L8 meets so she can get "experience doing L9 skills in a meet setting." HUH?????? Isn't the purpose of timed warm up to get used to the equipment, warm up the skills the gymnast WILL be competing? I think this is being thrown out to try and pacify us, but to me its just a plain stupid idea.
Thoughts from you folks would be greatly appreciated.
BTW--Changing gyms--- not an option. Getting her to try anothe sport---forget it, I've been trying.

 

[bogwoppit]

No insight on what the coaches are thinking. BUT, having her warm up her L9 skills when she will not be competing them sounds like a recipe for disaster. Not safe and totally bizarre.

Have you had a sit down meeting with the owner? This situation sounds painful

 

[Linsul]

No it doesn't appear to make sense. How old is your DD? What made them 'give up on coaching' and blow up at States? Did you talk to them or the owner after? Also have you ever talked to the more experienced coaches about your daughter? Are the more experienced coaches only doing levels 9 and 10, or is there a level 8 group working with them that she's not in?

 

[emacmommy]

If you don't mind me asking, where are you located. Can be general if you don't want to give specifics. I don't want to throw speculation out there and offer advise without more facts. What other Levels or competitive options are in your program there. How old is she, etc. Sounds like you have gym hopped before and are not able/willing to look at other options. Who is the owner/director, meaning are they a coach in the program or just run the gym? Are her current coach(es) ex-gymnasts at that calibre of gymnastics? I'm wary when you say there are other more experienced coaches in the gym and yet she is training Level 9 skills. It is very appropriate in my book to train level up skills and compete at a lower level while they train to be more competitive at the higher level. Maybe a compromise can be reached to find one Open meet and allow her to compete the new skills at an Open or even a Prep Optional meet to allower her to prove her worthiness. Sometimes a judge can be brought in to the gym during a Sat morning, or whichever, and an intrasquad can be held to evaluate the worthiness of being able to compete the next level up. I get a sense from you statement that there are other underlaying issues within the gym's program structure and gymnast/parent "gym culture". More facts and I might be able to explain some reasoning or logic, if there is any, to their coaching assignment choices.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

what a clustermess. more info before i pipe in. ^^^

 

[gym law mom]

Ok, more info---thanks to all in advance for even reading my rather long post. Gymmie is 13(8th grade), Did pre-team and compulsory at the only other gym in the area---left because of extremely negative coaching. Was called a "loser", told she would never make it to L8 and on and on. That was 2 yrs ago and to this day the few girls that are still there and know my gymmie will not talk with her.
L8 states ended up being held in that former gym. She had no problem competing at meets where the former gym was competing---even did pretty well at their big optional invite. It was coming back to that building---all the bad memories came flooding back and she was the only one from our gym in that session/former gym had 5 girls competing. I told the coaches this would be the toughest meet of her life---they blew it off and never talked with her before the meet about how she was feeling. Day of the meet, she looked miserable. After 1st rotation we noticed both coaches were sitting and chatting and gymmie was off sitting by herself. Continued like that for the rest of the meet. Yes, we did ask about it and the coaches said since gymmie wouldn't talk to them or "tell them what she needed" they "stopped trying to coach." I've never seen her cry after a meet until this one.
Ok, the optional girls at our gym are in 2 training groups---they do not train as teams. 1 group has a couple of L8s, repeat 9s and 10s. The other has some 8s and new 9s. The other training group also has 2 coaches---HC(very good vault coach) and a fantastic coach especially when it comes to refinning technique, but she's very good on all 4 events.
No prep op here. Rec league of some sort, but I can't see gymmie wanting this because they don't do double backs off bars
We have spoken with the HC, but he works with the other training group and doesn't really seem to know what my kid is doing. There are 3 part owners---2 coach and the other defers to them on any team related issue.
When we asked about move up at a scheduled meeting with the coaches about 5 wks ago, they said no rush because of her age(lots of time according to them) and she was healthy(not true--chronic knee pain).
I found out last night from gymmie that her teammates that moved to L9 all did quite a few privates with a coach that comes to the gym to sub, do choreo for fx and beam. All the girls she mentioned are in her training group, so obviously other kids felt they weren't getting the type of coaching they needed.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

wow! some gym programs are really screwed up. i'm speechless. especially the part about the coaches empathy-less in regards to your daughter going back to her original gym to compete. most coaches i know take extra measures to make sure gymnast is comfortable in that context.

the change in code for level 8 is causing alot of problems for coaches also. no c's at 8 yet not up to code to have 10.0 start values for level 9. they end up inbetweeners.

you've got to speak with someone there that makes decisions.

 

[gymdog]

The team policies at this gym seem to be getting even more disjointed and non-sensical. There appears to be some serious communications breakdowns. If you stay I would expect this to continue, because there appears to be little motivation for whatever reason on the part of whoever is making decisions. It's going to take more problems and serious loss of business apparently.

I would just encourage your dd in L8 at this point honestly. Even if she were to move to 9, it sounds like there would just be a lot of problems and possibly resentment, although I don't know, I guess that depends what group she goes in. Maybe in L8 the coaches attitudes will be a little better because she will be so successful. That's terrible, but with the situation laid out, it seems like the best we can hope for. I would try one more time to get the group change, for what its worth, even if the likelihood seems slim, and hopefully past this year there will be some sort of staffing change. Is the HC the owner? I would try to talk to whoever has the most pull - if there's a different owner, talk to the owner and express the problems you're having with their business.

 

[emacmommy]

Wow. I agree with GymDog on all his points. I'm dumbfounded as to why there would be a need to definitively split and mix groups as such, and at the higher levels. It would make more sense to me, in terms of progressions for all, to keep like levels together. i.e. L7's & L8's, and then L9's & L10's, and if there was such a mix of all optional levels in both groups to then keep the coaches rotating amongst both groups to make sure developmentally all were getting what each of the other coaches are expecting. It almost sounds as if they are encouraging, knowingly or not, two different programs with two different expectations within the same gym.

No easy answers as to how to be an advocate for you and your gymmie. If the owner of the business isn't around, I would try to find out how to directly talk to them directly so maybe at least they could shed some more light on the pecking order of coaches there. If you are feeling neglected that is not a good thing.

I do hope she/you (but especially your gymmie) has taken the one thing they did answer to you and tried to make a change. Although it sounds like they were rather insensitive about the way they communicated it, I will agree it is important to communicate feelings and needs to your coach(es). I'm in that position time to time with some of my preteen/young teen gymnasts here. If they don't speak I can't read their minds when things are wrong, bugging or nagging, therefore it's interpreted in their minds that I don't care or am not going to help, or they have to be "tough". There are few things that are more frustrating as a coach than to find out after an athlete needs help that they are crying in the hallway because there is a problem I am unaware of. My oldest son (almost 12) is the same way. Often times they are afraid to admit a problem because they don't want to disappoint, but if the problem goes unattended it inflates and soon feelings are hurt and coaches feel there isn't much they can do. So, keep that in mind. Encourage her to be open with her coaches, maybe they will take the ball and run with it.

 

[gymch34]

Their idea to warm up her L9 elements and compete L8 makes no sense at all, and sounds very dangerous. Are warm ups timed where you are? If so she would not have time to warm up both sets of skills.

Yes, they are trying to pacify you with this plan.

I'm not sure WHY they feel they have to lie to get you to accept what they have decided for your daughter. W/ the L8 changes, there are LOTS of kids who are in betweeners- and unfortunately, I think these kids will end up quitting earlier b/c of the stupid changes. (Im sorry, they are REALLY stupid.) SOMETHING is going on- I cant imagine why they would ignore your daughter at states, then lie about her plan for this year. I wonder if would be best for you just lay it on the line w/ them ask them to be totally honest w/ you & be willing to accept the answer.

 

[T.Gymnastics]

Whoever Is the boss of the coches needs to hear about every single part of this. nothing about this makes sense. sometimes you can see part of the reasoning... but i dont see any here.

 

[gym law mom]

Thanks to all for your feedback. To clarify on the state meet, I talked with the coaches when we got the session schedule and saw gymmie would be competing by herself. They just said it would be fine, they would take care of her(both knew the history with the old gym). The week before the meet, I really expected 1 of them to take her aside and see "where her head was at", but it didn't happen. I think they felt ignoring the issue would make it go away. You didn't have to be an experienced coach, parent, child psychologist to see something was very wrong with her the day of the meet. We were sitting with parents from other gyms and cheering for each other's kids and when she walked to her 2nd event, they all noticed something was VERY wrong---didn't know if she was sick, injured, but something was wrong. The coaches acknowledge they knew it too, but since gymmie wouldn't talk back, they gave up. BTW---this was told to gymmie in a routine end of season talk and she was told it was HER fault.
One of the posters mentioned it seems like a 2 different programs being coached with the grouping and boy that is quite right---hadn't really thought of it like that until now.
As for change, right now, they have more girls on team than they've had in 6-7 years, so just us complaining isn't going to make much of a dent.
Gymmie knew she was up against it as far as moving up, but then felt when it came to being evaluated by these 2 coaches, she would have to perform like a L10 to make L9. I didn't know they would keep the training groups the same and having her train with these coaches as a L9 would be a disaster and I feel very bad for the girls that will have to go through it. I don't know how many bad meets it will take until someone steps in and says things need to change.
Kid keeps saying(and has told the coaches) she wants to do gymnastics in college--Div 1 or 3---doesn't matter too much. Now she(and we) are really doubting the training they can offer that would get her there. She also told them she wanted to do 2 yrs as a L9---didn't mind being on the low end of scoring this year, so next year she would be ready to rock it. I did ask her what she was told about her testing and she said, "routines weren't competition ready." She has all the skills.

 

[T.Gymnastics]

Thats horrible. what do they mean not competition ready??? if she has every skill IN THE ROUTINE how is the routine not ready? to me it also sounds like these coaches dont care whether they do anything for the girls, they just want everything for themselves. they'll see it when karma comes to kick em in the butt.

 

[Linsul]

Whole lot of strangeness going on! Since you can't leave and your DD still wants to do gymnastics your options are to say something and stay put. As far as what to say, I'd come at them in a sense of here is my daughters ultimate goal, what are you doing long and short term with that interest in mind. Ask them how her current level, training schedule, and group makeup are aiding her in this. Then ask them to explain the long term plan.

I'd mention that your DD still loves gymnastics and is very enthusiastic about her team. However, the short term has got her down because she doesn't understand fully how what she's doing currently fits into the overall plan of her gymnastics career, and the ultimate goal of a scholarship. Get that in before they start to talk, because I have a feeling they will mention her shutting down at the meet as a concern. Regarding that, I don't know what was going through her mind at the time, and neither do her coaches apparently! I can tell you what would get my sympathy and understanding as a coach though if it were said to me; and if it makes sense then use it at your talk.

Something along the lines of 'My daughter is still young, and like most optional level gymnasts does what she's told with minimal hesitation. When it comes to knowing that that 4 inches of beam will be beneath her feet when her legs go over her head, she is sure. People aren't equipment though, and have the ability to confuse her. When those people are her coach(es), or for instance her old gym staff and team, that puts her in a place where she's not sure if she should say anything even though she wants to. Her confusion leads to frustration, which makes her second guess more, which makes her shut down rather than talk. Please feel free to engage her, let her know it's okay to ask questions or talk about things feelings that are impeding her ability to train or compete the way you would like her to.'

Maybe they had never seen her like that before and didn't know what to do. They honestly may have been caught off guard. Rather than fix it though it sounds like they went into denial and shut her out. Further they may have made a snap judgment of her ability to handle pressure. If you give them something to go on, and permission to get her to open up, they may try harder in the future. Hopefully that's the case! If you can't switch gyms then you have to get to the heart of the matter at your current one. Good dialogue focused on goals and your expertise as a parent are always a good start!

 

[socko]

You say that changing gyms is "not an option" but is that because your daughter won't move or there's nothing in your area (I drive my daughter an hour and 15 minutes each way) but I don't know how you define "area"? I can't imagine staying in a toxic environment like you've described ..and paying for it!!

When my daughter moved gyms, it was my decision after looking at everything that was (and was not) going on there. I finally said, "we're done, we're going elsewhere because it got to be better than what's happening here"..and I can tell you, it was scary. We went to a big , well known gym that we'd heard stories (from our old misinformed coaches) about and my daughter has absolutely thrived there. The commute to the old gym was 20 minutes and now it's well over an hour on a good day (and I do pass many gyms on my way there) but it was definitely worth it.

I don't think that at this point talking to the coaches and/or the owner will help...their mind is made up about what their plan is and you're not going to change their thinking. They might pacify you for a bit but in the long run, I think you are going to need to seek out alternatives to this gym. The toughest part is watching what it does to your daughter.. and for that reason alone, a change might need to be made.

 

[gymnut29]

As a coach I would hate to work in an environment like that! I wont even begin to try and understand what is going with the management and coaches at the gym.

You mentioned that some of the parents had their daughters do privates to be able to get to level 9 and you assumed it was because they werent happy with the coaching. Have you talked to them? I dont advocate ganging up on coaches or owners but sometimes its your only option if they wont listen to one they may be more likely to listen to a larger group of parents. I wouldnt go to her coaches either I would go above them to the head coaches and owners. They need to know how their coaching or serious lack of coaching is effecting your daughter. Who makes level decisions? Head coach or her immediate coaches? Maybe you can request another eval or private lesson with a head coach?

Its got to be tough to see her love a sport so much and have bad attitudes from coaches get in the way of her love and talents!

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

So, they tell her they will let her warm up L9 skills(like her back 1.5; double back on bars, step in/toe shoot) in the timed warm ups at her L8 meets so she can get "experience doing L9 skills in a meet setting."

That just might be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I can't imagine what these coaches could possibly be thinking.