WAG Getting to NATs/NIT from regionals - rant

[beamer]

my4buffaloes has the answer!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yes, that would be a solution but would add an extra day/session on to the meet. it seems like were already there for a year anyway. what's another day...

 

[Gymkateer]

Yes it would be regardless of region. Just rank all the kids by score (who didn't make it) and let a set amount in. But then do they go to NATs or NITs?

Get rid of NIT. Right now there's the Nastia Liukin series which ends in a televised meet before the American Cup. Why not shift the series so it happens later and turn the Nastia Liukin Cup into the Level 10 all around championships that happens at JO Nationals which would stay as it is, age groups and all except it would only be a team meet. Athletes who want to compete in the JO Nationals all around would have to qualify at whatever meets are in the Nastia Liukin series. Maybe the various regional meets could be part of the series too so athletes could still try to qualify for the JO Nationals all around at their regional championship.
The regionals would still be used to determine the members of the teams. Athletes could compete in both the team and all around at nationals if they qualify to both.

I can't decide if the JO Nationals team meet should also be one last chance for athletes to qualify to the JO nationals all around if they haven't all ready. I can already hear the bellyaching if some gymnast has the meet of her life at the team championship but can't compete in the all around. Or if they only qualified for the all around but improved after regionals and can't compete in the team competition.

I don't know if there should be age groups or not for the all around. The Nastia Liukin cup doesn't have age groups that I'm aware of.

How many gymnasts? Maybe allow the same amount that get to NIT. Anyone gets in with a 37. Tie break somehow if there are more. If there are not enough gymnasts with a 37, start filling in from places that aren't represented already. For example, if those top 12 states manage to qualify three quarters of the gymnasts to the all around championship with 37s, The last quarter should be filled with gymnasts from the other states who got 36s. When the 36s from those states run out, you can go look at who got 36 from the top 12 and fill in based on who has the least qualifiers already. Say Texas had 20, Florida had 19, and California had 18. The next three spots would go to California (2) and Florida (1). If the top 12 states get every spot, I guess that's tough luck for everyone else.

 

[bookworm]

Get rid of NIT. Right now there's the Nastia Liukin series which ends in a televised meet before the American Cup. Why not shift the series so it happens later and turn the Nastia Liukin Cup into the Level 10 all around championships that happens at JO Nationals

Uh no....the NIT is not the Nastia Cup and those who qualify for the NIT likely would not qualify for the Nastia Cup to begin with. The Nastia Cup (which gyms have to pay a big entry fee to call themselves a Nastia Cup Qualifier to host) already has their qualifying system in place and to me, has no place meshing with the JO/NIT system.

The 8 Regional Meets that take place in April ARE the qualifying meets to JOs and NIT.....

 

[gymmomtoo]

Why not keep Nationals the way it is now--top 7 of each Region qualify, but make NIT top however many of the rest of the 10s--regardless of age and regardless of region. That way you get the best of each region at Nationals, but the best of the nation can still make NIT. And we're not adding another day onto Nationals

 

[gracyomalley]

I like the idea of adding (even if it takes an extra day) the athletes who score a certain score, irregardless of region and leaving the rest alone. That would be like the Great Compromise that set up our 2 house system (just studied this with DS the younger) and meet the needs of small and large states/regions!

And just to add a twist, I will say that DD team has had 2 L10s go to Nationals in the last few years. One girl repeatedly with 37s...so bonefide no matter where she came from - but the other twice with 35-36s...

BOTH girls are competing members of their D1 college gym teams as we speak. Both spent years being the only or one of less than 3 level 10s on their team (and actually within 200 miles).

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Keep the ideas coming and email them to Shane .

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

This is how it is done in Canada. It works and makes sense.

I am going to preface this by saying I think I know what I am talking about but I might not, so feel free to correct me please.

JO level 10 is like National Open, correct? If so, it's not done like that but it is done by province to get to Nationals. They compete for a spot at Nationals at the provincial championships. If they do not make nationals, they can go to either Easterns or Westerns.

So, as DND has mentioned in the past, her province had 5 girls in National Open. So they all get to go to Nationals, but don't have a lot of competition among themselves. Then in Ontario, there were 30 girls in that level at provincials, and only the top 6 or 8 get to go.

Easterns/Westerns is like the consolation prize of National Open, where it is a huge accomplishment for the lower levels that don't go toNationals.

And the argument I see in this thread would be comparable to have Quebec split in half and have them compete against the maritimes for a "title" and the chance at nationals, have the other half compete against Saskatchewan, split Ontario and do the same with Manitoba, etc. it wouldn't make sense for competition purposes.

Yes, we are in Ontario, yes, we know that it will be harder for girls here to make it to the next level. But more competition means more gyms, higher quality coaching (in some cases). It's just the reality.

 

[bookworm]

JO level 10 is like National Open, correct?

.

I think the difference here in the US is the number of level 10s vs the number of gymnasts in Canada that would be eligible for the National Open...

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

I think the difference here in the US is the number of level 10s vs the number of gymnasts in Canada that would be eligible for the National Open...

But my point as that there are more girls in some areas of the country vs. others, so in some areas girls will make Nationals with a lower score than in Ontario where they have more girls. But changing things to spread the girls more evenly sounds kind of ridiculous IMHO.

 

[bookworm]

But my point as that there are more girls in some areas of the country vs. others, so in some areas girls will make Nationals with a lower score than in Ontario where they have more girls. But changing things to spread the girls more evenly sounds kind of ridiculous IMHO.

Oh now I get it...and I agree with you

 

[Gymkateer]

Uh no....the NIT is not the Nastia Cup and those who qualify for the NIT likely would not qualify for the Nastia Cup to begin with. The Nastia Cup (which gyms have to pay a big entry fee to call themselves a Nastia Cup Qualifier to host) already has their qualifying system in place and to me, has no place meshing with the JO/NIT system.

The 8 Regional Meets that take place in April ARE the qualifying meets to JOs and NIT.....

Please re-read my post.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Here are is what I am concerned about.
Region 1 has 253 level 9's, Region 2 has 111
Region one has 225 10's region 2 has 49
All going for around the same number of spots give or take. It just doesn't workout. (joke)

This is the thing. Level 10 has 8 age groups, with 7 spots to go to Nationals. If an entire region only has 49 level 10s, they all get to go if they meet the very low minimum score.
Now, over to Region 8, which has 5 times the amount of level 10s, with Jr A and Jr B each having their own session because of the high number of athletes, with each of those sessions having almost the same amount of Level 10 gymnasts as the ENTIRE Region 2. Only 7 from each group gets to go. Heck, my daughter would have gone every year in R2, even with a fall each year!
This is what upsets people. In R8, you almost had to score a 38 to get to Nationals, and a 37 to go to NIT. There is a definite advantage in a small region for a decent gymnast, while the same gymnast wouldn't even stand a chance of going in a larger region. All those girls in R8, R5, etc, look at the scores of the gymnasts going, scoring 2-3 points (not tenths) lower, while they sit at home. And the some of the ones going to NIT even have higher scores than the 1st place gymnasts.

 

[bookworm]

Please re-read my post.

I have read it and my response to it is still the same....

 

[Gymkateer]

I have read it and my response to it is still the same....

-the NIT is not the Nastia Cup and ...
I did not say it was. My first paragraph is about getting rid of the NIT and replacing it with an all around competition which gymnasts would qualify to through the Nastia Liukin Series. If you're going to have a meet where the best gymnasts go, you need a way for them to qualify. Something about everybody qualifying in their own region just doesn't work for me.
-those who qualify for the NIT likely would not qualify for the Nastia Cup to begin with.
Perhaps not but I mentioned that the new all around competition would have the same number of athletes as the current NIT. There are more athletes than compete at the Nastia Cup. 192 athletes vs. 38.

-The Nastia Cup (which gyms have to pay a big entry fee to call themselves a Nastia Cup Qualifier to host) ...
Things change. The Nastia Liukin cup did not even exist a few years ago. If the meets were turned into qualifiers for nationals who knows what other changes would also be in the works.

-'The Nastia Cup' already has their qualifying system in place and to me, ...
Which is exactly why it makes sense to snatch it up whole and repurpose it.

-'The Nastia Cup' has no place meshing with the JO/NIT system.
Why not? Nastia Series and Cup is for Level 10s. JO is for level 10s. Folks are looking for a way to get more of the best level 10s a spot at JOs. If that ever becomes the case, why have two different series for level 10s? Sure, you could qualify from just one meet based in the regions but why not have more chances to qualify. Also, to have a championship at the end of a series seems more exciting to me.

-The 8 Regional Meets that take place in April ARE the qualifying meets to JOs and NIT.....
I didn't say they weren't. I said the Nastia series should be used to qualify gymnasts to the all around championship but the regionals could be considered to be part of the series so gymnasts could still qualify to the all around from regionals along with the other meets in the Nastia series. By that I meant that Regionals wouldn't become just a qualifier for teams. It would be a qualifier for both teams and individuals.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

This is the thing. Level 10 has 8 age groups, with 7 spots to go to Nationals. If an entire region only has 49 level 10s, they all get to go if they meet the very low minimum score.
Now, over to Region 8, which has 5 times the amount of level 10s, with Jr A and Jr B each having their own session because of the high number of athletes, with each of those sessions having almost the same amount of Level 10 gymnasts as the ENTIRE Region 2. Only 7 from each group gets to go. Heck, my daughter would have gone every year in R2, even with a fall each year!
This is what upsets people. In R8, you almost had to score a 38 to get to Nationals, and a 37 to go to NIT. There is a definite advantage in a small region for a decent gymnast, while the same gymnast wouldn't even stand a chance of going in a larger region. All those girls in R8, R5, etc, look at the scores of the gymnasts going, scoring 2-3 points (not tenths) lower, while they sit at home. And the some of the ones going to NIT even have higher scores than the 1st place gymnasts.

==
Please send in an Email reiterating this. Thank you. here is the link to Shane , he is accepting any and all emails. http://www.region-one-gymnastics.com/board/board.html Also feel free to CC your regional rep and ask your parents to do the same.

 

[midwestgymcoach]

A 37.075 is 10th place in R5 Sr. A...

Unfortunately, that's typical Region 5. So many great gyms in Michigan, Illinois, Ohio, etc....I'm also willing to bet there were probably some former elites that dropped back to L10... But still, wow...

I bet Regions 1 and 3 had similar situations.

 

[bookworm]

-the NIT is not the Nastia Cup and ...
I did not say it was. My first paragraph is about getting rid of the NIT and replacing it with an all around competition which gymnasts would qualify to through the Nastia Liukin Series.

-
.

Gymkateer you are missing the whole point...the Nastia Cup is a series of fundraising meets for Nastia Liukin's charity endeavors and not everyone goes to one of those meets or is eligible by geography to do so (because not all gyms hosting meets want to pay the Nastia fee to be one) . The JO Nationals process is long standing through USAG and should be kept separate from the fundraising meets of the Nastia series.

If you don't "like" qualifying through regional meets, once you are out of compulsories, you are in for a long haul, because that's how it is....

 

[Gymkateer]

Gymkateer you are missing the whole point...the Nastia Cup is a series of fundraising meets for Nastia Liukin's charity endeavors and not everyone goes to one of those meets or is eligible by geography to do so (because not all gyms hosting meets want to pay the Nastia fee to be one) . The JO Nationals process is long standing through USAG and should be kept separate from the fundraising meets of the Nastia series.

If you don't "like" qualifying through regional meets, once you are out of compulsories, you are in for a long haul, because that's how it is....

Yes, Nastia Cup is a series of fundraising meets now but the idea is to change it so that it's a qualifying series. Yes, It's true that not everyone goes to those meets now but if they became qualifying meets that would change. Even if it didn't, Regionals would still be a qualifying meet. Yes, it's true there is a fee for invitationals to be part of the Nastia series now but if it became a qualifying series they could do away with the fee since it would no longer be a fundraiser. No, it doesn't matter how long standing the JO process is. Things can change. There was no Nastia series a few years ago. There were no level 10s competing on the American Cup podium a few years ago. Things changed.

I don't dislike qualifying through regionals. I was just thinking of a way to make sure all athletes with 37s get to Nationals while at the same time not taking anything away from those athlete with 34s or 35s who qualify now.

 

[txgymfan]

Its an interesting idea but I don't think Nastia would agree to giving up he wildly successful event/fundraiser because some people think the JO qualifying needs modifying. Not to mention changing the agreements with the American Cup, sponsors etc.