how to handle attitudes in the gym

[shadow]

we have a major issue with attitudes with our girls in the gym. some of our girls don't like to be told no and they don't like to be told what to do... they get attitudes when us coaches ask them to try something that they do not want to do. for example i told a girl that she has to do 3 bar routines before she moves on to the other event. She did not like that at all because she told me that she did not want to do that and she also said that she WASN'T going to do bar routines. So, she purposely messed up her skills or did not complete them or wasted time until it was time to move on so she did not get them done. Another example is when i asked a girl to work on back handsprings on the beam without the pad being on the beam. this girl is 13 and she literally threw a fit because she didnt want to do it or because she "can't" do it without the pad. all i asked is if she would try them!!. i was even going to spot her and she wouldn't accept that. she started to cry and say that she was going to get hurt and it was going to be all my fault because the pad wasn't on there...

How do you handle these issues?!!! we've tried setting them down and not having them participate in the rotation but they think its a game and WANT to sit out. also, they would be sitting out more than they would be practicing and the parents have a problem with that. we have told the parents about their child's attitude and some parents listen to us and talk to their child about it and others don't because they believe that their child is perfect!!! We know that some of this comes from the parents and how they have no discipline at home because we have seen the way that some of these kids treat their parents and its not pleasant.. but we cant help that. but how do we handle the issues within the gym?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

throw 1/them out. once they see that SOMEONE is serious the others will fall in line.

and please...refrain from posting that i am being harsh. i know what gym this is and anarchy is taking place. i'm sorry for shadow. no support from the top...

 

[canadiangymnast_eh]

Hang in there! It sounds like a tough situation to bee in! We have a few of these types of girls at my gym, and boy are they frustrating!! Is there an older girl that they look up to? or one that has a good attitude? If so I would ask if she could sit down and have a talk with your group. I would also try to be very stern with them. Although I imagine you already are! Sometimes girls just need to get a kick in the but to understand and get going. I think It all depends on the kid as well. Some coaches may have the kid sit out untill they get the idea, and when they want to come back, they may have a compramize such as they can come back if they do the skill they had a fit over. Other coaches may just yell or ignore the kid untiill they get the idea. If it were me, I would ask the head coach to help or get another athlete to have a talk with the girls. Some girls at my gym are known to talk badly behind their coaches back. These are girls in the 7-11 year old range and can be VERY nasty at times. They will also tell their coach he is stupid or they dont want to do something for no reason at all. I heard them talking about their coach onetime, and I went over and told them that they need to treat their coach in a more respective manner and that he is a person and needs to be treated how they want to be treated. This seemed to get them to stop a bit but it didnt solve the problem completely. However, one of the girls in their group, who is an absolute sweetheart, did say thankyou to me after because she was getting frustrated with the other girls but didnt know what to do. Anyways, hope this may help some or at least give you some ideas. Girls can be nasty, so hope it gets better for you!

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

throw 1/them out. once they see that SOMEONE is serious the others will fall in line.

I support this method also. My previous gym did this only the child had to call the parent and explain why they needed to be picked up early. Next training there is a meeting and if it happens again, bans from training were put in place. Sounds harsh but about four times a year children had to go home early and from history I only know of two bans on training. The behaviour, enjoyment, results and productivity of that gym was far superior to the 'relaxed' gym I now work in.

 

[shadow]

i'm hanging in there the best i can!!^^ their are a few older girls that the younger ones can look up to but some of it comes from the older girls that have the attitudes. i think its because they are getting tired of the sport and only come because their parents are making them.. so their attitude comes out at practice and the younger girls see that and pick it up. actually, we have threatened to throw one girl out because of it and she calmed down a bit but its coming back... which with her, she is actually on medication for her behavior problems so theirs only so much we can do with that

towards the end of march and the beginning of april we are trying something else with our practice and how we are splitting the girls up for rotations. there will be 4 coaches at every practice and each coach gets a level to work with at every practice and thats the only level they coach during practices. it might not be the best solution but we're trying something different and seeing how its going to work out. the best thing for me is that i wont have to worry about 40 kids and what each of them need to work on for their routines but instead i will have my group of 5 girls and their routines. i think this might help because they girls act different to each coach. so maybe something good will happen. we'll have to wait and see!!!

 

[gymdog]

If they outright REFUSED to do bar routines for no reason? They get to call their parents and explain why they are not participating or communicating appropriately, and that since they will not do this at workout they may be picked up or sit down until they can be picked up. Then they get to have a meeting scheduled with their parents and the coach about the conditions for their participation in the program and whether this is what they want or not.

If they just have a general bad attitude, I remain unwavering and neutral. Don't meet fire with fire or give in. If they are taking too long to do the assignment because they aren't trying, cheerfully repeat that the assignment has to be finished before moving on, and move them to another piece of equipment if they are in the way. If they really have a bad attitude I will occasionally suggest in a very neutral tone that this is the assignment for that particular workout groups, however I have other workout groups that do an easier assignment if they would care to join one of those. This is without any trace of anger. It is completely their choice and I offer it as I would a choice. If they make the choice I would allow them to follow through, and the natural consequence is they won't improve very fast and will not get to participate in the "fun" advanced skills of the higher groups. But maybe they don't care about that and that is fine with me. I put in 100%, but I'm not going to force or coerce participation. Instead, I try to make my expectations clear and build a rapport so that they will be more likely to trust what I say and accept that I am trying, so the respectful thing to do is to try back.

If this is a pervasive problem, I would also suggest a team meeting involving all athletes and parents about the code of conduct and respect, and ask that all gymnasts and parents sign a copy outlining some guidelines (i.e. be respectful of coaches and teammates, 1st infraction will be a warning, repeated infractions will result in leaving for the day and possibly dismissal from the program). Explain that this is for safety and a healthy environment more than anything, this (higher level gymnastics) is a privilege and a situation that is to be respected, not a three ring circus where everyone is just doing whatever they want. Explain that the coaches are putting in effort into planning and coaching and not just doing whatever they want as well. Explain that if an athlete were to progress to the collegiate level of any sport, or even participate in high school sports, such conduct will not be tolerated and would result in losing a spot on the team, so you cannot in good faith allow your program to devolve into an environment where athletes feel this conduct is acceptable.

Edit: It goes without saying (but apparently not really) that this is for POOR CONDUCT only, and not fear when a child is legimately trying. It is generally pretty apparent the distinction. However I HAVE seen coaches make a crying child who could not perform some skill such as beam series or backwards tumbling call their parents and tell them to come get them because they SHOULD be able to do this, why are they being so weak, etc. If I were on the receiving end of such a call, I would be livid.

 

[cher062]

Set the ground rules with the parent and let them know that girls refusing to do what they are asked has become a big issue and If they aren't doing what they are supposed to be doing then you will call a pareant to come and pick them up to take them home. If they go home 3 times then they don't go to the next meet no matter what it is (qualifier, sectional, state etc). Once a parent is called to come pick up they will handle the "either do the work or you're done" conversation. No parent wants to pay for a child that isn't doing their best nor do they want to come to pick up for such drama.

 

[3rd_time_around]

3 routines is not a lot. My dd regularly does 7 bar routines in a row, and sometimes if a routine is a miss, they have to start over. That is bars. Beam is more like 7 or more hit routines in a row for everyone, and if one misses the whole group starts over.

On the attitudes, SEND THEM HOME!! Sounds like you need to write out the ground rules of practice, and hand them out. Have the parents and girls sign them as an agreement to abide by them, and if they are not followed, SEND THEM HOME!! Make them get dressed, call their parents, and go. If the parents are the problem, too bad, SEND THEM HOME!! Even if its the middle of the season, write up the rules, have them signed, and follow them exactly, no exceptions. Show the girls and parents that you are serious and that you are in charge.

If they threaten to leave the gym, let them. From experience I have learned that it is always better for the gym when these people leave, even if the girl is a good gymnast. They take all the drama and angst with them. It's better in the long run for everyone, and you don't have to deal with that stress any more. They will either learn to obey the rules, or go some place else where someone else can deal with their drama. And they will learn that good gyms don't put up with that crap.

 

[gympanda]

We had this exact problem and put a discipline (behavior) policy in place. We modeled it after what most kids have in school.
1st offense: Verbal Warning
2nd offense: Sit out of practice for 3 minutes
3rd offense: Sit out of practice for 10 minutes
4th offense: Call home to be picked up

We presented to parents first, with behavior expectations. The girls would do what was asked, ask questions respectfully, not roll their eyes, do the appropriate amount of work that was being asked to make a good faith effort to complete their assignment, and not hit the equipment when they were upset (which was becoming a problem.) When we presented to the kids we asked who had a discipline policy at school and everyone raised their hand. We explained each step by asking what their step was at school and it was right in line (10 minutes out of practice is pretty similar to detention!) We have had the policy in place for a few months and have had NO ONE get passed the 2nd offense. Since we put the structure in place, and presented the expectations up front, it has been so much easier to deal with problems. Our coaches are no longer frustrated, as they feel they have a very specific way to deal with issues, rather than having to make any sort of judgement call. The parents are happier because it doesn't matter who is coaching their child they know the expectations and outcomes will be the same when it comes to discipline issues. This has been particularly helpful for us as we have a few younger coaches and we do event coaching for team. It did take quite a bit of communicating up front, as well as a policy page with the steps and the expectations written out. But, it has literally changed the feel of practices in our gym

We will likely be updating this policy at the end of the season to eliminate one of the offenses. Since it has become obvious the change in behavior can easily be achieved with the first two steps, we will likely eliminate the 3rd step and head straight to calling home for removal from practice. But, this was our starting point and we weren't sure what we were going to see!

 

[shadow]

thanks everyone for your input. i know we do have an issue with enforcing discipline but we are too nice!! we feel terrible for making kids go home but i guess if they need it then so be it!! i will definitely talk to the other coaches about your suggestions. so thanks again!!

 

[emorymom]

As a parent I would support that girls, after about one warning a year, should be calling parents for pickup if they have attitude or worse. If it happens repeatedly, meeting or suspension from team. I don't want my kid doing it, I don't want my kids seeing it, and if the group gets undisciplined it's a safety issue. My 5yo son had to call me one time to pick him up. I don't punish them for stuff like that, but I do support the gym in doing it and I would remove my child from the group if it happened repeatedly.

 

[Mag_7_Fan96]

It's time to get a little tough. My mother is a piano teacher and has had to deal with teenage attitude many times. She simply tells them that if they are disrespectful they WILL leave and no longer have lessons. She has had to let go of a student for this. She was very talented but had a big attitude and my mother showed her the door. She didn't take her back even though her parents begged my mother. Now if a student give my mother attitude she tells them the consequences, they test her or ask if she ever had to let go of a student and she tells them that she has let a student go. They straighten up pretty quickly.

However, if they don't like to take lessons she flat out tells the parents that they are wasting their money and the kids don't like it. The parents always end up taking their kids out.

 

[Blazing15]

My daughter who is 7 is one that gets frustrated very easy and is very emotional. We went through a very rough patch where she wasn't listening to the coache's and telling them no. She was told she is to never treat a coach this way. We have had many long talks. I think it has helped her that one day she was warned numerous times and was very mean to a coach that she got sent out of the gym to go home. It broke her heart but man it helped send her the message that she is not to act like that.

Now onto working on her being hard on herself and not crying when she doesn't get the skill the first time. She tends to get mad at her self and shut down and stomp her foot. The coach has to tell her to calm down and count to 10 that getting an attitude is not going to help her get the skill anymore. She is one that when she gets mad she crosses her arms and shuts down. We haven't really had a moment like this for a while since I asked the coach to pull her aside and talk with her. She knows that even if she has the skills the coach will not put her on the team if her behavior does not get better.

I think sending them out will def. send a very clear message that either you come in and work or go home.

 

[3stars]

I'm going to go with everyone that said send them home too. You have more students who deserve your time than to be putting up with that. If they are not injured, there is no reason for them to be sitting out and they are just wasting everyone else's time.

 

[sportzmomov3]

As a parent, I would be MORTIFIED if I knew that my kid was being disrespectful. Sorry, but I'm on board with being "harsh" and sending the girl(s) home immediately. Forget this tiered approach with multiple chances to comply. The problem with the kids starts at home. Maybe the parents will wake up and understand that their kid is in need of some parental discipline - that's not the job of the coaches. If they're not going to practice, they're wasting the coaches time, and taking up another gymnast's opportunity for training. First time - sent home. Second time - off team. Period. These are girls who are old enough to understand and know better. And it seems from your description that they obviously don't care either way if they're on team/at gym so why give them chance after chance?

 

[shadow]

what everyone is saying is right. i know that we need to be more harsh on these girls and send some home because they are making coaching harder for us and they are wasting time for the other girls cause all we are doing is babysitting. its just our head coach/owner does not like confrontation at all. he gives us other coaches all these problems to handle and it could be any problems with the gym because he just doesn't want to deal with it. Ad i do have to admit, confronting those parents is scary. i had to turn down their team payment checks one time because they didn't pay the late fee when they turned them in AFTER the deadline and they get really mean... which parents should not have that much control over the gym what so ever. we are hosting the level 3 and level 4 state meet for Indiana this weekend and it has been a nightmare to put together because of those parents but i'm not getting into that.

the owner has basically told us by his actions and i think he told another coach that he doesn't want to do this anymore; this meaning gymnastics and everything that comes with owning a gym. he is having surgery next month and we are kinda hoping that he retires so we can take over the way practice is ran and we can enforce more discipline in the gym.

 

[10.0]

Can't add anything. I would send them home immediately as well but all the suggestions in the world won't help if the owner is not backing you.

I guess the only other thing you might try is getting some naughty chairs and letting them sit the whole class out if they are disrespectful, keep them in sight but out of the way of the respectful gymnasts wanting to work. Then it is just babysitting, the parents will complain and maybe take their $$$ elsewhere.

I personally understand kids struggles, for different ages and I work around that but there does come a time when the kid is not on board, the owner is not on board and the parent is not on board to just cut your losses. Those kids don't want to be in gymnastics, it is stupid to try and force it and really stupid of their parents to pay good money for it IMO.

 

[lilgymmie7]

what everyone is saying is right. i know that we need to be more harsh on these girls and send some home because they are making coaching harder for us and they are wasting time for the other girls cause all we are doing is babysitting. its just our head coach/owner does not like confrontation at all. he gives us other coaches all these problems to handle and it could be any problems with the gym because he just doesn't want to deal with it. Ad i do have to admit, confronting those parents is scary. i had to turn down their team payment checks one time because they didn't pay the late fee when they turned them in AFTER the deadline and they get really mean... which parents should not have that much control over the gym what so ever. we are hosting the level 3 and level 4 state meet for Indiana this weekend and it has been a nightmare to put together because of those parents but i'm not getting into that.

the owner has basically told us by his actions and i think he told another coach that he doesn't want to do this anymore; this meaning gymnastics and everything that comes with owning a gym. he is having surgery next month and we are kinda hoping that he retires so we can take over the way practice is ran and we can enforce more discipline in the gym.

I have to admit I am humbled by the mere fact that some kids in general are just going on a downward spiral as a whole and it isn't just a school related situation. I believe what you are describing is a societal problem, and the fact that some parents leave their parental responsibilities for others to handle is clearly evident. Everyone who comes into contact with a child has a role IMHO of helping to mold a child into a respectable, honest, and hard working child. There will come a time where tossing out every misbehaving child will not work. Soon those numbers will grow.
With that said, I too uphold to being firm and consistent with all children. Being 'wishy washy' only breeds more misbehavior. Personal story: Last summer, DD was 6. She was a very 'cute' 6 yo. Well, this 'cute' six yo had a bright idea with another 'cute' little teammate to squirt water all over another team girls locker. Needless to say, SHE had to call home! Kid was shaking in her boots when I arrived to pick her up. Mom does NOT play! I haven't had to deal with anything like that again. At 13.... I don't even want to think about what would happen with my child if at that age she/he decided to misbehave. My children's behavior is of my utmost concern. I have never spoken to coaches about 'gymnastics' related issues really. I however have always asked about ALL of their behaviors. THAT is what my ROLE is.
Unfortunately, some parents do not see it the same way. But again, simply removing all gymnasts who misbehave is NOT the only solution especially if they have parents who also do not give a darn. Those children need us to intervene. If gymnastics could be a way to turn a wayward child around then I say develop a more proactive measure to ward off disrespect. However, if the child really doesn't want to be there, well then "Good bye!" is probably in order. I hope I haven't gone off on a tangent!

 

[nevertooold]

Sending them home only works if the parents and/or your owner respect this method. In your case it may not be your best option.

My suggestion would be to speak to the girls privately and find out the "real deal" and together make a plan that will meet both your needs. For example:
Hey Susie, I've been thinking and I'm sort of confused what your goal is this year? What is your plan? What are you hoping to accomplish?
--I don't know.
Well do you like coming here?
--it's ok.
Do you like being on team?
--it's ok.
Well here's what I'm wondering, I'm wondering if maybe you're getting sick of gymnastics? Or maybe your parents want you to do this? Or maybe you hate me? Or maybe your just lazy? I don't know but if you don't tell me why you are refusing to do the assignments in practice I won't know how to help you. All I want to do is help you reach your goals, whatever they are. Maybe your goal is to get kicked off team so you don't have to come here anymore???
--no
Ok, then here's how it's going to go. I want 15 free hip to hs every practice. That's how many it's going to take for girls who want to continue to progress. But I can settle for 6 from you. Any less than that and you are putting yourself at risk of injury and I cannot let you do that. I understand if you just don't "want it" right now and am willing to accept less from you. But any less than my minimums and we cannot keep you on team here.

Then when you announce assignments give a range of numbers. No reason not to just lay it out there as an option. "ok girls we are going to beam. If you love it love it love it, can't get enough of it, go to these two beams, stick ten acro series in a row and yell your numbers out as you go. If you're feeling tired, lazy, hate me or just don't care go to the back beam and make 7 total."

We have had some success with offering a range in our assignments. The "this is what I want vs this is what I have to have" concept. "20 v-ups ... But if you really really want to you can do 25".

Most of all, just be real with them, let Em know you get it, they don't want to do what you are asking for, and you understand, but that they have to meet you in the middle, do what is necessary to remain safe and not disrupt the others.

Good luck.

 

[emorymom]

Sending them home only works if the parents and/or your owner respect this method. In your case it may not be your best option.

The owner obviously needs to be on board, but the parent doesn't have to. There are very few parents in the world who will not do something about frequent pickups partway through practice. The parent does not need to think that child needs home discipline. The parent can just decide that gyms are horrible, unreasonable places and go find a tennis pro.