WAG I want to run

[Flipomaniak]

Hi!
So recently I decided to go on about 2 runs a week for at least 30 minutes. Semi gradually this increased and I find sometimes myself running for 2 hours or more. It has recently occured to me that the distance I run is sometimes up to a half marathon! And when I do, I'm tired but not winded (surprisingly). I enjoy this a lot, early morning or late at night. It gives me time to think and I feel it keeps me in shape and heathy, but I'm not sure it's helping my gymnastics. Like this Monday, I ran for about and hour and 45 minutes. I felt great on Monday, but yesterday I was slugish and winded and tired during practice. I also have a history of chronic shin pain, shin splints and stress fractures. If I wasn't a gymnast, I feel that I'd even take the running route, even though I don't have a "runner's body." I can't do both though! So I don't know what to do about this new found thing... Any advice?

 

[LizzieLac]

First of all, cardiovascular training is good for you - in gymnastics and in life! So, good job and being able to build up so much.

Second, the concept of a "typical" runner's body is hogwash. Anyone can run and have fair success if they train smart.

Being sluggish and tired a day or two after a long run is not uncommon. However, what strikes me as not ideal in what you describe is that you are running these long distances two times a week. Proper running training would say one long run, 2 mid-length runs, 1-2 short runs and the other day(s) are rest days.

So, if you are currently serious about your gymnatics, I think you should back off the long runs. You would be better off to run 2-3 days at moderate distance to keep up your cardiovascular conditioning. The long runs just may be too much right now, and you want to avoid any of the issues you mentioned. Good luck!

 

[Sasha]

Congrats on working so hard, and catching the 'runner's high'! Distance running has always been my sport. I also suffered from shin splints for years, and have been through physical therapy for multiple stress injuries (from all the marathon running training)....

LizzieLac is right that...
1) There is no such thing as a runner's body. Just go watch a marathon race and see people you would not imagine could run 1 mile pass you like you're standing still, and you will be convinced

2) Running training, like gymnastics, has optimal strategies for not getting injured or overly tired (i.e. not "overtraining"). A few shorter runs, and a longer (usually slower paced) run per week is a general formula for success here. I like to rest or have a very 'easy' short run the day after a long run. Avoid scheduling hard training after a long run. And if you are having the shin pain issues, you should probably ease off the long run altogether until you get that under control. Otherwise you won't get a chance to heal...

And also some things for you to research and consider...
3) Proper running shoes and, possibly, orthotic inserts if you have continued pain, are extremely important for the shin splint problem. If you are running in the Sketchers you wear to school, for example, you are not running in proper shoes, and this can truly and seriously contribute to leg pain. Most shoes under $80 are not proper running shoes for most high-mileage runners. You need the right support specific to your arch shape, foot shape, and your body weight. Go to a proper running shoe store that serves runners for a fitting if you are serious about keeping up this sport.

4) Stretching the calves well after running (along with your other leg muscles) for at least 10 minutes is needed for recovery and aiding in the shin splints.

That might all sound overwhelming at first, but really it just comes down to: get the right shoes for your foot and body, and don't train hard until your shins are improving enjoy running!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

get a bike...

 

[GymGirl's Mom]

DD started running and now she is SO TIGHT! Is this common? Ugh. Not sure if you are having a similar experience.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

get her a bike...

 

[Sasha]

get her a bike...

lol. This is what my orthopedic surgeon, podiatrist, and physical therapists all told me. Bike or swim. Stop running. Yeah, I didn't listen.

If running is in you, it's in you. Kinda like gymnastics ;-)

But I do respect that two sports at once (gym and running) are doubly-pounding on the joints, so overdoing it is a risk area here.

 

[kecks]

it also makes you slow. you get good at what you are doing often. running so many kilometers or miles every week trains your body to be good at long distance running (unfortunatly not at many other things - it has little carryover to biking or swimming and the other way round). for gymnastics you want to be fast and powerful (good at sprinting and jumping high). this is the *total* opposite of what you are training your body to do at the moment. i totally get the 'i love running'-thing and there is nothing wrong with it, but if you are serious about your gymnastics i would go running at best twice a week for 20 to 40 minutes, nothing more and get a bike .

 

[Short Balding Guy]

Training aerobic fitness is very different than training to perform gymnastics. At the extremes, an example of long/slow aerobic runs for elite gymnasts, studies have identifed a significant decrease in gymnastics performance. Muscles needed to extert maximal effort over a short, quick, duration see negative impact when they have trained as mentioned before.

Gymnasts need their muscles to co-contract/contract quickly over a small duration in order to be powerful. An excellent example is gymnasts working on higher speeds in vault runs, (creating more momentum), giving a higher downward force(on vault board) and resulting in a higher upward force (lift).

BTW: An excellent article reviewing physics and Newtonian forces in vaulting can be read here: http://www.theaftermatter.com/2012/05/physics-of-gymnastics-vaulting-and.html .

Aerobic fitness for elite gymnasts is needed. This is not controversial. Certainly not surprising as a FX routine and a BB routine have hard aerobic demands for a "longer time." It has been recently pointed out that the aerobic fitness can be done in the same workout time as the anaerobic (quicker muscle firing) training without negative side affects. That is good news as our workouts do not need to get any longer! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22492939 It is the level of aerobic fitness that is debated. It clearly is the answer "just enough" aerobic fitness. What is "just enough?" Most experienced coaches can answer it by watching their athletes train a FX routine.

The above said: I totally agree with other posters - Running is a GREAT lifetime activity. I have a couple of optional athletes who mix their spring/fall gymnastics with Cross Country and Track seasons. I, the coach, treat them for tibialus issues (issues like shin splints), hamstring issues and quad issues in our everyday training after their running workouts. Most of the time their running coaches and I coordinate so that we do not exceed the athletes ability to cope, recover and rest those muscle groups. When we fail in coordination, I am in the physical therapist role as a year around coach. My workouts change for those athletes dramatically and hence their goals are adjusted. Running can be an excellent lifetime sport/activity. I love to do it. I am the old short balding coach and yet six days a week I run and cycle. Even thru the northern US winters I run and cycle, although indoors thru the cold and snow.

To the OP I suggest the "moderation concept." Everything done in moderation. Based upon your weekly training loads and goals, running should be enjoyed. I would suggest visiting your coach and checking with your parents about what is "just enough," or moderate.

I hope I have contributed something to the discussion. Best, SBG -

 

[billise]

I run approx 35 miles a week. DD age 7 is a gymnast. She loves to go with me on my shorter runs (say 5 miles or so) and she does occasionally but GO told us parents a while ago at an informational meeting that while he encourages lots and lots of physical activity away from the gym, he would rather the gymmies run short sprints than distances because it's a different kind of training and can be counter productive to that fast twitch muscle development that gymnasts need.

 

[Short Balding Guy]

Specific sources: Excellent article from the USA-Gymnastics website here:
http://usagym.org/pages/home/publications/technique/1999/3/whygymnastics.pdf

The article penned by Bill Sands contains this from page 1; "
1. Gymnastics is an anaerobic sport.

Anaerobic means "without oxygen." Gymnasts tend to have middling levels of aerobic (with oxygen) capacity (13). However, gymnasts are among the strongest and most flexible of all athletes (27, 38). Gymnastics performances usually last under 90 seconds. The level of intensity of the activities is too high for long-term performance such as seen in endurance sport long duration events like the marathon.

Most sports are anaerobic in nature. Only the long term endurance sports such as cycling, swimming, and running are largely aerobic. Gymnastics is an "acyclic" sport which means that the same movements are not repeated over and over (6). There are numerous benefits to cyclic, long-term endurance sports but variety is generally not one of them. One of the major benefits of gymnastics activity is that it subjects the gymnast's body to a wide variety of stimuli. Repeating the same movement patterns over and over has recently been questioned (57). And, the generally assumed superiority of aerobic training has been shown to be illusory for many areas of fitness, particularly with regard to weight loss (5, 60). "


It is an article that I have cited to parents who have come to me asking about their gymnasts needing more running outside of the gym.

SBG -

 

[Short Balding Guy]

A bit of topic but, here is another different way to consider the importance of aerobic fitness:

Ranking abilities/characteristics that forecast Gymnastics success: Soviet writer Nabatnikova, working with the Russian Sports Federation, compiled a ranking system of abilities and characteristics, which are supposed to assist in forecasting the athlete’s success in gymnastics [8]. She divided all abilities into three levels of importance. The first level included Physical characteristics: total body proportions, body structure, body mass index and feet structure. The second level included functional abilities: mobility, vestibular, peripheral neuro-muscular system, audio analyzer, endocrine system, cardio-vascular system, respiratory system, metabolism and visual analyzer. The third level of important abilities and characteristics was locomotive abilities: coordination, mobility, specific endurance, explosive strength, speed, speed force, absolute strength, and relative strength.

This system included endurance (aerobics abilities), but its relative weight was very low. I have listened to former traditionally trained Russian coaches who used parts or derivations of the above system of athletic forecasting and when speaking about determining future athletes they never spoke to aerobic fitness issues. The above is an older system that can not be practically applied today. This older system derived from quality effort and research and can still provide basic sport knowledge today.

BTW: I attended a lecture that explained this system of athlete identification and nuanced the details. At the time it was explained to me it was an "old system." While I enjoyed the details of their thought, and research, like many I was skeptical of their ability to predict the human spirit. GO USA!

Source: NABATNIKOVA MJ, osnovi upravlenia podgotovki junih sporsmenov Fiskulutura I sport, Moskva (1982)

SBG -