WAG L4 mobility score

[Deleted member 18037]

What I am worried about is a kid who was doing very well and talking about trying for L6 next year until she got her first set of scores, then decided she was no good because she didn't qualify for states and score out of L4 at the in-house meet and then started performing poorly at meets to prove it. And half her team seems to be in the same boat, so it's not just her. That is why I think the 34 requirement is counterproductive. Yes, I know the sport is 90% mental, but the mental challenges should be about the skills and not some stupid score. When it was all about the skills during summer training she was coping just fine.

Scoring out is part of the process. And if they have the skills, the scores follow they just do. And it’s a maturity/mental thing. If a gymmie is giving up based on a first of season set of score they are surely not ready to go on, mentally.

My kid tanked her first bars this season this season. Worst score ever. She knew her skills needed work. They have improved and her score has jumped significantly. It was the skills she had to work on. She knows that. A 34 is a reasonable score for competence at L4

 

[Deleted member 18037]

With that said as a parent, I would prefer my DD to be a level 6 versus level 5 as it seems being able to build routines around her stronger skills leads to safer gymnastics. I would also be interested in a true matrix on the reasons girls retire. My feeling is Fear and Blocks that aren't overcome. Love of something is usually not lost overnight.

Having a daughter who has done both. And was placed in 5 because she needed stronger skills. Having also spoken with multiple coaches when it happened.

L5 has many things to build skills for the future. Perhaps coaches can correct me if my thinking is off.

The reason it tends to be skipped is there is no way to avoid the required skills, which makes the scoring at meets incredibly hard. So many gyms want to avoid the level.

My daughters gymnastics is better for having done 5. And she is starting to edge ahead of some of the kids who skipped 5 and did 6.

The reasons girls retire are many. Coachp has some excellent posts regarding that in the somewhat recent past. Social, middle school, puberty and fears and blocks among them.

And it appears I missed profmoms response sorry, I could of just said I agree.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

When I joined Chalkbucket it was to find out about scoring out of Level 4 and 5 as my DD was coming for USAIGC. I personally think any move up meet score goes against the coach gymnast relationship and the purpose of sports in general. Gymnastics is a journey between an athlete and a coach. Should the Gymnast struggle on a back extension roll and vault but excel on many other skills, should that gymnast's journey end? I believe a coach with good standing in the USAG should have the final decision on the level his or her athletes compete. The score is arbitrary and does not indicate the future ability or work ethic of a gymnast.

For the record, DD attended a summer meet and scored out of Level 4 and 5 within the same 3 hours. My point is not about my daughter but about the girls at the meet that were unsuccessful in their attempt to score out of whatever level they attempted. The drama and stress caused by the desire to meet a mandatory score in a beginning level of gymnastics seems unhealthy.

I understand the point you are making and I think the majority of coaches can be trusted to make the correct call. However, all you have to do is look at Instagram to know that there are some coaches who are pushing younger gymnasts to higher levels before they are ready all for the sake of bragging rights. And some of these coaches are also Moms. It’s better for their accounts and “instafame” to have seven year olds training level seven and show fast progression and big skills, even if the child isn’t ready.

I think a higher mobility score is a safeguard put in place to protect young girls from the few over ambitious coaches and parents in the sport. And with all that has happened recently, I’m ok with extra safeguards in place to protect the gymnasts, even if at times it’s frustrating.

 

[kipnastic mom]

I have personally seen some coaches doing this. The parents don't really know much about what is going on; but the coaches come in and tell them how talented their kid is and want to "fast track" them. They skip kids ahead that were super stars at lower levels and really are great on two or three events; but they aren't ready (usually on bars or vault). These kids then go to their competitions at the higher levels, never having seen anything below a mid 9, to suddenly see not only 8s; but 7s and sometimes 6s. I have seen several kids quit because of being pushed ahead like this and it has absolutely come from coaches (though sometimes there is parental pressure too).

This is what happened to us. My daughter won state as a level 3 and was literally the only girl who had her kip. The summer after her level 3 year, they told me that they wanted her to skip level 4 and move directly into level 5. She had no level 5 skills yet, that they had to fast track her learning of. Her first meet as a level 5, she literally had gotten the last skill the day before and no connections at all. She went from scoring 9+ in all events to 7's and 8's and was devastated. Her 2nd meet was much of the same. Her last 4 meets weren't as bad, but, she still struggled the majority of the season, especially on bars. Her confidence in herself after last season was the horrible and that has lead to some challenges this year. Her vault, beam, floor scores are great and she is placing high there. Her bars, although she performs well in practice, she gets to the bars at the meets with no confidence and has issues. The same coach that was all about this young girl fast tracking, is now telling her that she isn't sure what she wants to do with her next year since her bars aren't where they should be. If I could go back in time, I would fought harder to keep her in 4. I think she would be completely different. I think the next few meets should be better, based on what I am hearing out of the gym. If she doesn't I am not sure my daughter will stay with it.

 

[tpMom]

Scoring out is part of the process. And if they have the skills, the scores follow they just do. And it’s a maturity/mental thing. If a gymmie is giving up based on a first of season set of score they are surely not ready to go on, mentally.

My kid tanked her first bars this season this season. Worst score ever. She knew her skills needed work. They have improved and her score has jumped significantly. It was the skills she had to work on. She knows that. A 34 is a reasonable score for competence at L4

I'm with you, if a child can't put together 4 routines at level 4, then it's not going to be easier to do it at 5. My DD found the 34 score out to be intimidating, and it was stressful, especially because she only had one meet to do it (and it wasn't just a score out meet

This is what happened to us. My daughter won state as a level 3 and was literally the only girl who had her kip. The summer after her level 3 year, they told me that they wanted her to skip level 4 and move directly into level 5. She had no level 5 skills yet, that they had to fast track her learning of. Her first meet as a level 5, she literally had gotten the last skill the day before and no connections at all. She went from scoring 9+ in all events to 7's and 8's and was devastated. Her 2nd meet was much of the same. Her last 4 meets weren't as bad, but, she still struggled the majority of the season, especially on bars. Her confidence in herself after last season was the horrible and that has lead to some challenges this year. Her vault, beam, floor scores are great and she is placing high there. Her bars, although she performs well in practice, she gets to the bars at the meets with no confidence and has issues. The same coach that was all about this young girl fast tracking, is now telling her that she isn't sure what she wants to do with her next year since her bars aren't where they should be. If I could go back in time, I would fought harder to keep her in 4. I think she would be completely different. I think the next few meets should be better, based on what I am hearing out of the gym. If she doesn't I am not sure my daughter will stay with it.

This was EXACTLY what I was worried about when they had my DD score out of 4 this year. They could be the same kid based on what you wrote. The difference was that when she took 1st at state at level 3 she already had a (low, scary) robhsbt, and an (extremely inconsistent) bwo on beam, to go along with a pretty rough kip. She worked all summer to clean up the skills she already had and to get literally everything else on bars. Her mobility meet was November, she got her clear hip and baby giant in September and her flyaway the week before the level 4 meet. Her first level 5 meet went okay but she had her first ever fall on floor (on the back extension roll of all things) and a "fall" on bars ( she missed her long hang kip and had to do an extra tap swing to get the baby giant around... or something like that). She actually placed well despite everything, mostly because her beam score was almost .75 higher than anyone at the meet, but it was stressful for sure. We have her 2nd level 5 meet this weekend and I'm just hoping that she can be proud of herself no matter what her scores. I think she actually has the ability to place in all events, although her vault needs much more time, but level 5 is HARD! I figure that this is a great chance for her to learn how to have good meets and bad meets. Which is definitely a skill she's going to need to have if she stays in gymnastics!

 

[kipnastic mom]

This was EXACTLY what I was worried about when they had my DD score out of 4 this year. They could be the same kid based on what you wrote. The difference was that when she took 1st at state at level 3 she already had a (low, scary) robhsbt, and an (extremely inconsistent) bwo on beam, to go along with a pretty rough kip. She worked all summer to clean up the skills she already had and to get literally everything else on bars. Her mobility meet was November, she got her clear hip and baby giant in September and her flyaway the week before the level 4 meet. Her first level 5 meet went okay but she had her first ever fall on floor (on the back extension roll of all things) and a "fall" on bars ( she missed her long hang kip and had to do an extra tap swing to get the baby giant around... or something like that). She actually placed well despite everything, mostly because her beam score was almost .75 higher than anyone at the meet, but it was stressful for sure. We have her 2nd level 5 meet this weekend and I'm just hoping that she can be proud of herself no matter what her scores. I think she actually has the ability to place in all events, although her vault needs much more time, but level 5 is HARD! I figure that this is a great chance for her to learn how to have good meets and bad meets. Which is definitely a skill she's going to need to have if she stays in gymnastics!

It hasn't helped my DD that she was in the youngest age group both last year and this year! Last year it was 9 and under at all her meets and she was hoping that meant this year at 10 she would move up in age group, but no, all of them have been 10 and under!!! This age group in our area at least is always the toughest to place! Good luck to your daughter!!!!

 

[tpMom]

It hasn't helped my DD that she was in the youngest age group both last year and this year! Last year it was 9 and under at all her meets and she was hoping that meant this year at 10 she would move up in age group, but no, all of them have been 10 and under!!! This age group in our area at least is always the toughest to place! Good luck to your daughter!!!!

Mine is 9 too! She doesn't mind being in the youngest age group, or the youngest on the team, but she's still kind of intimidated by the older girls. At our last meet it was all level 5s and level 6s 14 and older and it felt like the older girls were GIANTS compared to my DD. Of course, she wasn't a level 6 so they weren't her competition but she kept a close eye on those teenagers just in case

 

[gymnastmom05]

Having a daughter who has done both. And was placed in 5 because she needed stronger skills. Having also spoken with multiple coaches when it happened.

L5 has many things to build skills for the future. Perhaps coaches can correct me if my thinking is off.

The reason it tends to be skipped is there is no way to avoid the required skills, which makes the scoring at meets incredibly hard. So many gyms want to avoid the level.

My daughters gymnastics is better for having done 5. And she is starting to edge ahead of some of the kids who skipped 5 and did 6.

The reasons girls retire are many. Coachp has some excellent posts regarding that in the somewhat recent past. Social, middle school, puberty and fears and blocks among them.

And it appears I missed profmoms response sorry, I could of just said I agree.

Our gym just had our Level 5’s score out this year. First year our gym has ever “skipped” level 5. There were a few reasons behind it, some were for Gymnastics and others were for money. While I, as a parent, agree Level 5 was good for my daughter in many ways, I still think a gym can use 6 the same way, it just has to be expected that you might not place as well as girls performing lower skills (beam especially) but will be better for their progress in the long run. Our gym found the number of competitors at meets in Level 5 were dwindling and most of our girls were reaching that funky age when Gymnastics becomes harder but middle school is looming or upon them. After spending 3 years in compulsories (Level 2,3&4), the excitement and fire was definitely there with the thought of finally being out of compulsories (though that was just a reaction, didn’t play into any decision). From a business standpoint, it saved money. Drop a level means that’s a session you don’t have to pay yet another few coaches to attend (and all that goes into that- food/travel, etc). I think if used correctly (read: means you might have to sacrifice high placements to still have a higher skill standard for the long term benefit) it can work out ok. My DD did 5,6 and now 7 and I’m so glad 6 was there so she didn’t have to do another year of 5. But, 2 years at 6 doesn’t sound awful if necessary (though more expensive for the parents, the plus side is no compulsory music!).

 

[RTT2]

Is doing 6 instead of 5 the same as skipping a level? I thought most gyms did one or the other but rarely both. Our gym competes 5, but not 6, but I wasn't thinking of it so much as skipping a level as choosing one over the other.

 

[gymnastmom05]

Is doing 6 instead of 5 the same as skipping a level? I thought most gyms did one or the other but rarely both. Our gym competes 5, but not 6, but I wasn't thinking of it so much as skipping a level as choosing one over the other.

I think it just depends on the gym and the area. Our area doesn’t have a fall season so the girls finish up mid/end of March and then train for the next season (usually a fairly good idea of where they will be is known in Late summer) I know some areas have a fall season and then have over a year to train before the next competition (and some jump right into the spring and are ready to go). Many gyms we know have done 5&6 with those completely ready after 5, going to 7. Our gym used to repeat 5 or go to Xcel until they were ready for 7 (before new level 6 was added). I think gyms have been working with what’s best since the level addition came (however many years ago it was now) and it’s still an evolving thing.

 

[GYM0M]

When DD was a L4, she had the whole deck stacked against her. She could barely vault and that was only if the table dropped to or below “0”. The routines were brand new so interpretations were all over the place on the small things that judges ‘tenth’ to death. She was in the Jr A division in a very competitive state. And even with all that, I’m pretty sure she got close to a 34 AA at the first meet of the season. Just checked, 33.875, 7.9, 8.2, 9.0, 8.725. Also, a low score does not necessarily mean that a gymnast is not proficient or safe. Sometimes it just means the gymnast had a rough day. It’s these rough days that THEY have to learn to live with. This is the mental side of the sport. There will be more than one or two of these kinds of meets/days and even more than one or two of these kinds of weeks/months. Better to learn how to deal with these kinds of things now for lots of reasons. That being said, I’ve also been on the parent side of the confidence issue. Not fun, and you not only feel helpless, you are actually in fact, helpless. @mommyof1 Your gymmie needs to learn to believe in herself and to trust her body. IMO, that’s an important part of competing that’s never scored. But once she learns those things, the score will come. @tpMom & @kipnastic mom Sounds like you both have super talented gymmies!! A good coach knows what a gymnast needs to get a great score. A great coach knows what their gymnasts need to have successful careers. For some gymmies, compulsory level skills come really easy & its easy for these kinds of gymmies to stay on top. But when these gymmies are faced with struggles, they have not developed the proper skill set to get through them. Learning they can get through their struggles, achieve their goals, and work their way up are also pretty invaluable skills in gymnastics. The smile and sense of achievement they have on their face when it’s all said and done is well worth all the mommy worrying we’ve been through.

 

[Pigeon]

Our gym typically does a full year of level 4, then a limited year of 5 where they do a couple of meets to score out and a fun travel meet. They don't do states, they spend the rest of the year preparing for the optional levels.

Now, for what this is worth, I attended our regional congress as a coach and one of the USAG "higher ups" was asked a question in a somewhat off-the-record way (before the session she was leading started) about skipping levels. Her response was that she felt level 5 was the most important compulsory level for developing strong basics, and that's the level that should really be focused on.

 

[LindyHopper]

decided she was no good because she didn't qualify for states and score out of L4 at the in-house meet and then started performing poorly at meets to prove it.

Where did the pressure come from that the 34 had to be achieved at the in-house meet?

We host a meet very early in the season that most gyms use as a score out meet. Even though it is a sanctioned meet, our girls have been taught to think of it as almost a practice meet (it is their first of the season). They think of it as a way to see what the judges think and where they need to improve throughout the rest of the season.

I really wonder what the coaches are saying, and the kind of pressure they are applying if the girls felt that they had to achieve the 34 at their first meet of the season or they were "no good". If it's half the team, I would tend to think the coaches are applying pressure about the score requirement, rather than the score requirement itself causing the issue.

 

[mommyof1]

Where did the pressure come from that the 34 had to be achieved at the in-house meet?

From inside her own head and nowhere else. Up until the in-house meet, she sincerely believed she was a rock star this season. She had made so much progress in terms of skills, form, and presentation that she set a personal goal of skipping L5 and going to L6 next year (without having discussed this with her coach). At the in-house meet, Tink did objectively fine given her preparation and capabilities and actually scored at or above the median on every event except vault. There was room for improvement, but she still looked like a completely different kid and everyone was blown away. But the scores did not match up with how phenomenally well she believed she had been doing, which destroyed that newfound confidence and has since prevented her from making the small improvements that could really bring those scores up.

It is just killing me to watch her do this to herself. I am absolutely sure there is zero pressure from the coaches, based on what Tink tells me as well as my own observations. The coaches have only ever had positive things to say and the girls are forbidden to set score-related goals. The L4 coaches are the perfect match for her and have done so much to bolster her confidence, but in the end it's up to her.

 

[LindyHopper]

Is doing 6 instead of 5 the same as skipping a level? I thought most gyms did one or the other but rarely both. Our gym competes 5, but not 6, but I wasn't thinking of it so much as skipping a level as choosing one over the other.

Short Stack competed L5 last year, and her highest AA scores were in the upper 34s low 35s. I think she'd be really bored repeating 5, especially since I think she has shown proficiency.

On the other hand, her FX is nowhere near L7, nor are her bars.

She is competing L6 this year, and I am thrilled. She is happy because she is an optional gymnast with her own routine. I am happy because she won't be bored, and she also won't be competing above her ability.

My favorite part of it is that they can continuously tweak her routines as the season goes on so that as new skills become competition ready, they can be incorporated into her routines.

 

[LindyHopper]

From inside her own head and nowhere else.

The joys of the perfectionist type-A personality of some gymnasts. ...sigh...

Hoping that she gets out of her own head before the season is over. Hugs to you mama.

 

[John]

Everyone has there own opinion on gymnastics. Every child's journey is their own. Optional Gymnastics allows for a very individual journey.

DD's Gym does not skip levels. They start competing at Level 3 and do every level after. DD showed up there 7 months ago with a set of skills. The Head Coach gave her a tryout accepted her to the team. It was/is his plan that she is currently following. He could have asked her to compete 4 and 5 and 6 but wanted her to compete where "she belonged". She scored out of 4 and 5. I believe DD is changing the culture of the gym.

My point is a quality coach can keep gymnastics safe and fun. DD and all her optional team members do basics every time they practice, their coach would except no less. Point is you don't have to be a level 4 to work on basics.

If you attend a meet and you see gymnasts on your gymnast's team doing things that just look terribly dangerous it is time to question what you see.

Lastly, if the USAG didn't feel it was appropriate to skip levels the ability wouldn't exist.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Lastly, if the USAG didn't feel it was appropriate to skip levels the ability wouldn't exist.

No one skips, they have to score out. Hence this thread.

 

[John]

Score out compete once, correct, excuse me.

 

[LindyHopper]

Lastly, if the USAG didn't feel it was appropriate to skip levels the ability wouldn't exist.

I don't think there are a lot of us who think that scoring out of and/or skipping levels is necessarily a bad or unsafe thing to do. (Short Stack skipped L3).

Please Excuse the novel ahead.

I can only speak for myself... I am totally fine with scoring out of levels. If the gymnast is proficient (as your daughter has proven to be), fantastic--more power to that gymnast. Everyone should be able to compete where they are challenged, yet also have some success.

I happen to be a supporter of the new mobility score of 34. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a gymnast to attain an average of 8.5 for each event during one meet through an entire season. Even if the gymnast scored a 7.75 on one event, a 34 is still attainable for a proficient gymnast. If a gymnast can't do that at least once throughout an entire season, she needs to continue uptraining, and compete at least one meet as a 4 the next season to show that she is proficient, then either move up to five, or attempt to score out of 5 and move up to 6, or even 7 if she is ready. (I don't feel that it would be necessary, or even right, for every gymnast who didn't achieve the mobility score to repeat an entire season of 4).

I think the concern many (including myself) have is that if the mobility score for L4 was too low, gymnasts who weren't truly proficient at L4 were able to easily achieve the mobility score, (a 7.75 on one event... fine. An average of 7.75 on all four events... not sure that shows proficency for such an important level) then that gymnast might be training/competing 5 before she is safely able to.

And I totally agree with you that the coaches who allow gymnasts to compete where it is unsafe for them should be taken to task, it is a subjective sport. And what one coach or judge might deem unsafe, another coach or judge may not.

Again, IMO, if the gymnast is truly proficient, the 34 should be no problem, and if the goal is to score out and move up, great!