WAG Level 8 Vaulting

[cbifoja]

What criteria are used in deciding to have a gymnast vault a tsuk versus a yurchenko? How early does a coach make a decision? How common is it for gymnasts to learn both?

 

[Quadqueen]

It depends on the gym, from what I've read here. Many gyms only train yurchenkos, presumably on the belief that it's a more "progressive" vault. Some do both. Sometimes it depends on the strength of the gymnast on one or the other vault. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's been said that the yurchenko is sometimes easier for the smaller/less powerful gymnast...?

At DD's gym, they tend to start training the tsuk for level 8, but most girls are doing yurchenkos for level 9.

 

[Fliptwisttumble]

DD learns both. She competes yurchenko timers in her "level" but will do a tsuk next month at our travel meet for L8. Like QQ said, it seems that the girls at our gym mostly switch to yurchenkos or front type vaults by L9, and the tsuk is an interim vault for L8s.

 

[lhmom]

At DD's gym, they usually teach the 8's the yurchenko vault unless the gymnast is really struggling with it. Out of the 5 level 8's there, one is doing the tsuk because she developed a strong fear of the yurchenko. The only other optional doing a different vault on the team is a level 9 who actually broke her elbow doing the yurchenko a few years ago. She now does a front type vault.

 

[Gymsanity]

What criteria are used in deciding to have a gymnast vault a tsuk versus a yurchenko? How early does a coach make a decision? How common is it for gymnasts to learn both?

I always train both. I hate Yurchenkos as they are as common as a front handspring, and have taken away from the variety of vaults, less I digress. Back on track, I like teaching Tsuks as it adds one more tool to the girls box, not to mention some just like it better and it fits them. By knowing and training both, if one of my girls Yurchenkos doesn't look that good at a meet, she can just throw a Tsuk pretty much with her eyes closed and keep her in the running. I think a lot of it has to do with what the coach is most comfortable teaching.

 

[cbifoja]

Is there a reason that a coach would inform an L7 gymnast that she will NOT be learning a tsuk but would rather concentrate on the yurchenko drills? Is it early to be making that call already or are there factors that make a tsuk undesirable for some kids?

 

[lhmom]

Well, it might be that her coaches feel it's best to work on the Yurchenko (a vault that skills can be added to to increase difficulty as the gymnast moves up in levels) instead of tsuk. At least, that's what I have heard at DD's gym.

 

[Gymsanity]

Is there a reason that a coach would inform an L7 gymnast that she will NOT be learning a tsuk but would rather concentrate on the yurchenko drills? Is it early to be making that call already or are there factors that make a tsuk undesirable for some kids?

I know several coaches that feel the Tsuk is no longer a viable vault for girls that they believe are going to be upper level optionals. So why spend time and effort learning a vault they believe won't be used down the road. They will teach it if the girls have problems or fears with the Yurchenko, or they don't believe they will go past level 8 or 9. As mentioned above, that is not my opinion.

 

[Gymsanity]

Is there a reason that a coach would inform an L7 gymnast that she will NOT be learning a tsuk but would rather concentrate on the yurchenko drills? Is it early to be making that call already or are there factors that make a tsuk undesirable for some kids?

I know several coaches that feel the Tsuk is no longer a viable vault for girls that they believe are going to be upper level optionals. So why spend time and effort learning a vault they believe won't be used down the road. They will teach it if the girls have problems or fears with the Yurchenko, or they don't believe they will go past level 8 or 9. As mentioned above, that is not my opinion.

 

[cbifoja]

I don't think our coach has that philosophy either as our top gymnast does a tsuk.

 

[iwannacoach]

I know several coaches that feel the Tsuk is no longer a viable vault for girls that they believe are going to be upper level optionals. So why spend time and effort learning a vault they believe won't be used down the road. They will teach it if the girls have problems or fears with the Yurchenko, or they don't believe they will go past level 8 or 9. As mentioned above, that is not my opinion.

I don't think our coach has that philosophy either as our top gymnast does a tsuk.

Maybe the coach feels the "top gymnast" lacks the sum of gifts required to learn a Yurchenko, so best option for the top kid would be a vault she *can* learn with a reasonable start value.

The timing of the coach's decision for your dear daughter is the way it is because Yurchenko vaults take longer to learn, and dedicating her vault time to learn a Tsuk will only increase the amount of time it takes to get from here to Yurchenko Land.

 

[htimcj]

OK. Could someone send me to good video of both of these vaults with labels ? I think I am confused as to which is which.

 

[cbifoja]

A tsuk is a half on followed by a salto before landing. A yurchenko is a round off entry, hitting the table like a back handspring before doing the salto and landing.

 

[iwannacoach]

OK. Could someone send me to good video of both of these vaults with labels ? I think I am confused as to which is which.

Here's a Tsukahara

Here's a better one

Here's some Yurchenkos

You can go directly to you tube and watch the last two in slow motion.

 

[CoachTodd]

I think the philosophy of push the Yurchenko over the Tsuk for upper level vaults is a bit odd. Last I checked, the Tsuk has a slightly higher value.
The main difference is the vaulter can generate more speed and turnover with the Yurchenko. It takes a bit more power to get the Tsuk going. If a coach is coaching to the gymnast and not to a list of skills, the gymnast may be smaller and could benefit from the added power of the round off.

 

[profmom]

My understanding of the reasons for Yurchenko over Tsuk for almost every gymnast in DD's gym are 1) the greater range of possibilities for upgrading the Yurchenko -- pike, layout, twisting, and embellishing thereon -- over the Tsuk, and 2) the Yurchenko's emphasis on finesse over strength. As I hear it, the Tsuk is fine for a typical L8, but if you want to get the higher start values beyond there, the gymnast has to have a lot of power coming off the horse to lay out or twist a Tsuk.

Of all of DD's L8 teammates (I think there are 15 or 16 of them), one is competing a Tsuk. Everyone else is doing a roundoff entry vault. They have, however, done enough prior work on Tsuks that when DD was training for a few weeks at another gym over the summer, she got her Tsuk off the springboard over the horse into the pit in three days. But they started working on their Tsuk and Yurchenkos drills when they were still L5s!

Edited to add: someone more knowledgeable can correct me if I am wrong, but I think part of the reason as well is that DD's coaches figure it's going to be slightly easier to pitch a girl for a scholarship if she is competing a nice full twist Yurchenko by the time colleges are looking at her.

 

[cbifoja]

My DD and her teammates have been doing drills for both vaults since last summer (after their L5 season) and my DD has even flipped some tsuks into the pit. That is why I was a bit surprised when she told me that her coach had emphatically said that she would not be doing a tsuk at L8, but rather the yurchenko. I came here to try to interpret the coach stressing that DD wouldn't be doing the tsuk.

 

[CoachTodd]

My understanding of the reasons for Yurchenko over Tsuk for almost every gymnast in DD's gym are 1) the greater range of possibilities for upgrading the Yurchenko -- pike, layout, twisting, and embellishing thereon -- over the Tsuk, .

You can do the same skills with a Tsuk entry that you can do with the Yurchenko. The standard college vault is the Yurchenko - Full or the full and a half.
Yurchenko is more technique than power though.
I keep waiting for FIG to down grade the value of Yurchenko vaults.

 

[profmom]

Cbifoja, I don't know about your DD, but I'm pretty sure the reason mine is going to be stuck with the Yurchenko she hates rather than the Tsuk she can do is that, because she is not and never will be a powerful vaulter, the Tsuk is kind of a dead end for her. She's pretty good at twisting, so if she ever does get the hang of the Yurchenko, she will probably have a much easier time upgrading it.

 

[cbifoja]

Yes, I was kind of wondering if power, flexibility, strength....all of those kind of things....played into the decisions that coaches make on this issue. My DD is small for her age, like all gymnasts. At 9 she is 50 inches, but she is pretty powerful.

I know that comments have been made about how damaging it would be for her if she under-rotated the tsuk (poor leg/achilles flexibility) and wondered if that played into it. But that didn't make much sense since she could just as eaily under-rotate a yurchenko.

I wonder if maybe because of size/power, her coach doesn't think she can generate the power to do a tsuk despite her being considered a powerful gymnast. Eventually, I'll ask the coach but until that time, I thought I'd come here and see various perspectives from coaches and the parents who have been there.