WAG Making Money On A Team Program?

[AmandaLynn]

Don't know exactly what the meaning is behind the above post, but gyms are in business because of the gymnasts that pay tuition. In addition, many girls start gymnastics at 3 and stay in their gyms until they graduate from high school. That is about a 15 year stint.

I know that this is a bit of an off topic comment, but I can assure you that most gyms are not making much (if any) money on their team programs. Most of the kids that stick with gymnastics through high school are team kids, paying a drastically reduced (per hour, compared to a rec kid) tuition rate with coaches that are paid a drastically higher salary than rec coaches.

Just had to kind of put that out there.

 

[Muddlethru]

I know that this is a bit of an off topic comment, but I can assure you that most gyms are not making much (if any) money on their team programs. Most of the kids that stick with gymnastics through high school are team kids, paying a drastically reduced (per hour, compared to a rec kid) tuition rate with coaches that are paid a drastically higher salary than rec coaches.

Just had to kind of put that out there.

I am fully aware that the hourly rate paid by rec kids is higher than team kids. Note however that rec kids get full supervision the entire hour and the ratio of coaches and gymnasts in rec classes are also lower than that of the team at least in my personal observation. We had two full time coaches for our team of almost 60. Rec classes sometimes had two coaches if there was more than 6 gymnasts. Maybe you are right in that "most" gyms make very little off of their team program. But that may be because "most" gyms do not have a successful competitive team. I believe we are talking about competitive gymnasts in this thread and not rec gymnasts switching gyms. So, a competitive team of 50 gymnasts who pays a tuition of $400/month brings a revenue of $20,000/month or $240,000 a year. It may not be as much as what the rec kids bring in an hourly basis but it certainly is not jump change either. But this is not what the thread is about. I wish most gyms operated with the mentality of which Aussie_coach speaks.

 

[krisnkids]

I am fully aware that the hourly rate paid by rec kids is higher than team kids. Note however that rec kids get full supervision the entire hour and the ratio of coaches and gymnasts in rec classes are also lower than that of the team at least in my personal observation. We had two full time coaches for our team of almost 60. Rec classes sometimes had two coaches if there was more than 6 gymnasts. Maybe you are right in that "most" gyms make very little off of their team program. But that may be because "most" gyms do not have a successful competitive team. I believe we are talking about competitive gymnasts in this thread and not rec gymnasts switching gyms. So, a competitive team of 50 gymnasts who pays a tuition of $400/month brings a revenue of $20,000/month or $240,000 a year. It may not be as much as what the rec kids bring in an hourly basis but it certainly is not jump change either. But this is not what the thread is about. I wish most gyms operated with the mentality of which Aussie_coach speaks.

I'm not sure where you are but 60 kids for two coaches is insane. Our gym is small and we have 2 full time coaches. As for tuition bringing in 400/month, what gym is charging 400 a month for compulsory gymnasts? And what is a successful team? I would venture to say that most gyms are successful if they have girls who got to meets that compete successfully, progressing through the levels as they acquire new skills.

 

[Muddlethru]

I'm not sure where you are but 60 kids for two coaches is insane. Our gym is small and we have 2 full time coaches. As for tuition bringing in 400/month, what gym is charging 400 a month for compulsory gymnasts? And what is a successful team? I would venture to say that most gyms are successful if they have girls who got to meets that compete successfully, progressing through the levels as they acquire new skills.

My post clearly indicated 60 kids in the competitive (not compulsory) team. That would be levels 4 through 10. I know several gyms in our area that have competitive teams that only go up to Level 6 or 7. Then the kids leave after that. I would not say these gyms are not "successful" but it is limited. There are maybe 10 gyms in our area and I can honestly say, there are only 2 gyms, maybe 3 I would consider having my daughter train at. Your definition of a successful team works for me too. Success is relative. i guess the best definition I can give is a successful team is one that can keep a great majority of their gymnasts happy. A place where progress, results and contentment go hand in hand. I rounded off tuition at $400 because rates change depending on levels and number of hours practiced from $360 to over $400. Elites even go higher. I may be on the higher end of tuition. We are in a high end rent area.

 

[krisnkids]

Re: How Confidential is a Visit to Another Gym?

I know what competitive team is. I still think that 2 coaches for 60 kids is insane. It may be fine for you in your situation but I prefer a lower ratio. Team girls are different in that they can work on their own with greater success than rec, but they still need supervision and correction.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using ChalkBucket mobile app

 

[AmandaLynn]

I am fully aware that the hourly rate paid by rec kids is higher than team kids. Note however that rec kids get full supervision the entire hour and the ratio of coaches and gymnasts in rec classes are also lower than that of the team at least in my personal observation. We had two full time coaches for our team of almost 60. Rec classes sometimes had two coaches if there was more than 6 gymnasts. Maybe you are right in that "most" gyms make very little off of their team program. But that may be because "most" gyms do not have a successful competitive team. I believe we are talking about competitive gymnasts in this thread and not rec gymnasts switching gyms. So, a competitive team of 50 gymnasts who pays a tuition of $400/month brings a revenue of $20,000/month or $240,000 a year. It may not be as much as what the rec kids bring in an hourly basis but it certainly is not jump change either. But this is not what the thread is about. I wish most gyms operated with the mentality of which Aussie_coach speaks.

i think that your ratios are higher than average and your tuition is much higher than my area, as well. We tend to have two coaches with each team training group. I admitted that I was completely off topic when I typed my response, though. I just have a hard time when I feel like people don't understand that team does not pay the bills in most gyms, despite the fact that they pay a much higher total monthly tuition than rec.

Most coaches and gym owners are not in this to make millions. They expect to be able to make a living, but they do this because they LOVE gymnastics and they LOVE the kids. So, in an attempt to circle this conversation back on topic, Some gyms become overbearing and overprotective and take things a bit too far sometimes, but I don't think that most of the have bad intentions, ya know? I think that they are just being protective (yes, to a fault in some instances) of the program that they have put their heart and soul into. And, just for the record, I am not in the habit of kicking kids off of team for looking at other gyms, before it is insinuated that I am trying to defend my own actions.

 

[JBS]

There are gyms charging $400/month for compulsory gymnasts...and there are gyms making money on team. Is this most gyms?...no.

 

[SGMOM]

I think gyms do make money with their teams, although for some it may be indirectly. A successful, happy team is proof and advertisement that a gym can and does coach gymnastics well. We have several gyms in our area, and whenever a parent on one of our neighborhood message boards asks which one their kid should start at, the size and success of the team is always a factor. I know many kids join our rec program because they knew a team gymnast, saw a team gymnast doing something fun on the playground, or just hopes to be on team. At our gym now, I know 6 kids who joined rec because they are friends with my daughter.

 

[wallinbl]

So, a competitive team of 50 gymnasts who pays a tuition of $400/month brings a revenue of $20,000/month or $240,000 a year.

Rent on a 20,000 sq ft warehouse will run $6-8+/sq ft or $120,000 to $160,000+. Figure in insurance, electricity, front office staff, quality coaches, etc. You'll need scores of rec students to get to profitability. I've done the math on a few local gyms (at one point, I thought it might be fun to buy one), and it's not lucrative. Many, many jobs pay more than gym owner. They're doing it because it's their passion, not because it's a big money maker.

 

[Muddlethru]

Rent on a 20,000 sq ft warehouse will run $6-8+/sq ft or $120,000 to $160,000+. Figure in insurance, electricity, front office staff, quality coaches, etc. You'll need scores of rec students to get to profitability. I've done the math on a few local gyms (at one point, I thought it might be fun to buy one), and it's not lucrative. Many, many jobs pay more than gym owner. They're doing it because it's their passion, not because it's a big money maker.

To clarify, I never said team income alone can sustain a gym. But income derived from a team contributes to maintaining a gym and more substantial that one might think. And as SGMOM indicated, rec kids, aspiring competitive gymnasts will look for gyms with strong teams, one that does well at meets. Because that is our only means of judging a team. Hence, larger enrollment.

 

[Muddlethru]

I know what competitive team is. I still think that 2 coaches for 60 kids is insane. It may be fine for you in your situation but I prefer a lower ratio. Team girls are different in that they can work on their own with greater success than rec, but they still need supervision and correction.

It is not fine for our situation. That is why we are no longer in that gym.

Amandalynn, yes, the ratio is probably higher, the tuition is higher, but that is why we are no longer in that gym. When you have a large compulsory team and then a mass exodus happens when they start doing optionals, there is a problem. But I agree with you that coaches are not in the business to make money but are in it because they love the sport. Their passion is what drives a team to be successful. I merely mentioned numbers because I feel many people discount the importance of a team in the income of the gym. I respect coaches, at least those that love the sport. I know my daughter's former coaches love gymnastics and they do give whatever is left of their heart and soul into it. I also understand why many may take it personally when their athletes leave. But some can be vindictive and vicious about it I think there should be no place for that in any business.

 

[kayjaybe]

I don't pretend to know the finances of our gym, but I would guess, like with many gyms, it is the rec kids that keep the gym open and make money for the owner. I think we have a successful gym - team is L5-10 and we have gymnasts in all of those levels. The ratio for team gymnast to coach doesn't seem overly high (usually they are in groups of 8-10 gymnasts per coach). Our rate is also not anywhere near $400/month. At L6, we pay $170/mo and I think the L10s pay maybe $200 or $210.

 

[wallflower]

Most rec kids no very little about team and generally choose a program based on other factors.

I think when you are talking about team kids you have to realize that yes they make money, but they generally don't make profit for the gym. There is a difference. I'm sure there are gyms who may make a small profit, but that isn't the norm. Rec, tumbling, etc are the big profit makers.

I'm a little jealous of y'alls tuition rates. I pay $460 for level 7! But dd also has coaches that this is their full time job. We have been at gyms where it's a college kid, a person moonlighting as a coach. I'm happy to pay that amount so we can have a salaried coach who gets benefits, paid vacation etc.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

Oh wow, I just realized how expensive it is to do gymnastics in US. In my club level D (similar to level 6 in US) gymnasts
pay 300 euros per season. So it's something around $80 a month.

Rec kids pay 145 euros / season for one hour class a week.

The Gymnastics clubs (or any other sports clubs) are definitely not making any money here!

 

[Quadqueen]

I don't pretend to know the finances of our gym, but I would guess, like with many gyms, it is the rec kids that keep the gym open and make money for the owner. I think we have a successful gym - team is L5-10 and we have gymnasts in all of those levels. The ratio for team gymnast to coach doesn't seem overly high (usually they are in groups of 8-10 gymnasts per coach). Our rate is also not anywhere near $400/month. At L6, we pay $170/mo and I think the L10s pay maybe $200 or $210.

That is REALLY low tuition for these parts!!!

 

[catou]

Wow, 400$ a month is really expensive! I'd say here we pay a maximum of 200$ a month for 12 hours a week, including meet fees. I'd say thats the number of hours level 7-8 are doing. Girls in levels above that are usually in what we call sport-études. They train 24 hours a week and I have no idea how much it is. A couple of years ago, they were in a seperate club, training at the same place as us, but it wasn't working financially and they fused their club and our. We usually have a ratio of 1 coach for a maximum of 8 gymnasts.

It's definitely not the competitive teams that allow the club to stay open. We have a lot of rec classes (40) and more than 500 kids in these classes. Our club is small (about 6000 square feet).

 

[Muddlethru]

To reiterate, yes I agree rec classes bring in the bulk of a gym's income. However, in my daughtee's old gym, believe it or not it is not the case. So, I can only speak of what I've personally experienced. My daughtee's old gym had only one or two rec classes in the afternoon and maybe one in the morning, 6 days a week. The classes had no more than 10 gymnasts paying $350 for 16 one-hour classes (roughly four months). I am very familiar with the rec schedule because I looked into rec classes for my youngest daughter. See the math below:

three classes a day with say 10 students each for 6 days equals 180 (30 students X 6). Multiply that by $350 is $63,000 and divide that by 4 months brings the gym an income of only $15,750. Our team of say 55 at $400/month brings in an income of $22/month. I guess that explains why our ratio of team coach to team members is so high, And that many of our rec coaches have never even done gymnastics. Note the gym owners/head coaches are not business people. We did not even have a sign on our door, no advertising, etc. In contrast, I checked Chow's gym and he has what seems like 32 classes A DAY, 6 days a week. He appears to have a very selective team of 40. So clearly in this instance it is a no brainer, the rec classes are the bread and butter of the gym or even the sole money maker.

Actually, I don't know where this post is going and why I am even involved in the thread.:-D. I really could care less one way or the other because it does not even concern me. I guess it is just my argumentative side.

 

[Coloradogymmie]

We pay $190/mo. for pre-team @ 3 hours per week. When my dd moves up to the next level pre-team it will be $300 for 6 hours a week. It's pretty expensive. Our gym starts competing at level 5 and the girls go 12 hours per week, and I have no idea what that costs. I know that the level 10 girls and elite girls rate is $600 per month though. So glad that we are a couple years away from competing!!!

 

[Gymmommy71]

Most tuition around me averages around $20 a month per weekly hour of team gymnastics...so yeah, for a gymnast going 20 hrs/week it can approach $400 month...however, most of our gyms don't do that many hours until at least L7+...(there are a handful that start w/ the crazy hours in L5 though). I'd say a 1:8 coach to gymnast ratio is the norm, but I've seen it slightly higher and lower...I've never seen anything like 1:20...(I'd find that unacceptable, especially if I was paying $400/month ).

I can believe that rec programs are the bigger money maker for gyms (cause I bet those kids pay significantly more than $20/mo per weekly hour, and there are a lot more of them ), but I also understand that the team gymnasts serve as a showcase to attract rec kids...so they kind of go hand and hand .

FWIW, my DD dances in addition to doing gymnastics, and the per hour tuition rate for that is much, *much* higher!

 

[JBS]

It all depends on the business model that each gym is running. Anything is possible if the gym is in the right location. Certain business models definitely do not work in all locations.

Have fun with this...

http://usagym.org/pages/home/publications/technique/2003/5/businesstip.pdf

http://usagym.org/pages/home/publications/technique/2003/6/businesstip.pdf

EDIT: Keep in mind that these are from 2003...so add 10 years of inflation to the numbers.