Mental issues? Just plain frustrating...

[Deleted member D3987]

the kid is not done. as i said, hang on for the ride. she's probable going to be very good in time.

 

[flipflopcrystal]

she definitely LOVES gymnastics. she is at the gym everyday, her parents are personal trainers at the gym. she is always watching practice even if its on an off-day. she stays for extra practice, she always asks to work on things, like clear hips and back tucks. it just seems like something more like a personality trait.

we had a GREAT practice on thursday, she was responsive on clear hips and I even got her to correct her set for her back tuck and she did an awesome one by herself into the pit. Friday was a different story. just loose and throwing herself around the bar. her tumbling was flat footed and her set was straight backwards. we went to vault and did FHS over the level 4 mat sideways into the pit. she throws her head out because its hard and has a bad body shape. i try to explain to her that we do drills so the skills are easier. she just looks defeated and "gives up" like i said its almost like a tempertantrum. we have set her out before when she does it, we try to correct her, we have told the parents and they know, but are just being supportive of the coaches and of her and not intrusive, which is what I prefer.

It's just strange. Not to mention she could care less about her form. Has good form when she wants to. If you tell her to straighten her lefts on something as simple as a backwalkover, its almost like she "ignores" it, or rather "shuts it out" Just can't figure out to have her working more consistently like "Thursday" and not "Friday."

I could go on forever:
Does she understand what I am saying?
Is something wrong?
Is she confused?
Is she lost?
Will she ever understand that she needs to be tight to be safe?

I have come to the point that I don't want to spend too much time correcting her and then reinforcing the correction over and over because she is unresponsive. I don't want to take time away from other kids because it takes more time and potential to get her best effort.

I am sorry for the long post. Even in my head I seem all over the place, I just can't explain it. Just frustraiting I guess because she is talented! She does work hard sometimes, just want to see her best most days instead of some days.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

it's called 'difficult character'. just learn to ignore the 'stuff' and continue to coach. we've all had them.

 

[iwannacoach]

I believe that kids do the things they do, better or worse, for a reason. Sometimes we try to put a label on a child's behavior and end up getting it completely wrong, so be careful not to judge her as you won't be able to see the obvious reason right before your eyes, or hear it as she tries her best to communicate it with the limited ability a 10 yo child is cursed with.

I've been down this road more than a few times and know how frustrating it can be to work with a child who has "exotic sports car" physical gifts but is driving an "old clunker" when it come to the other characteristics that create a "gymnast". Here are some suspicions that may lead you on your honorable "quest" to "help" this child, and remember these are only suggestions:

She has her own agenda that makes sense to her...you have your's, and with-in that context, the battles ensue.

She can't appreciate her gifts as they have been there all her life. She may think everybody else is crazy for singling her out for advanced training.

She has "watched" a lot of gymnastics and has applied her own logic to the laws of physics that govern human movement, and much of what you say makes no sense at all. In her mental image she see's good where you see bad.

Her flashes of brilliance are only temporary deviations from the above possibilities, and her "exceptions" are the result of being "broken down". Fast forward to the obvious result of this reality.

She doesn't give a ^%$# sandwich about all the gymnastics corrections, she's just a common 10 yo who happens to have uncanny abilities and likes getting "flippy and twisty".


She's ADHD and can't think past what's happening right now that grabs her attention or interest. This is immensely frustrating for her as she feels constant criticism from all angles in every aspect of her life. It's very destuctive when you consider she is only taking in information that finds it's way to the forefront of her attention, and then only for that moment until something else facinating comes along. Please use that as information rather than criticism, as I can tell you have the best intentions at heart.


She just needs to mature and have fun in the process of learning "intermediate skills" until something clicks for her. I was this way because I started in High School with a "wanna-be football settled for gymnastics coach" who knew just enough to keep us from getting hurt, and nothing more. It took just one year with a coach in college to turn me into one of the best in the country on my favorite event. But those were the old days when a scale on the unevens was still in the code of points.

Try talking to this kid several times in the most "non fault" manner possible. Do not try to guide the discussion to her behavior, let her do that for you. Take her information as valid and credible, and then go make some sense out of it. You may just be opening the door for a child with exceptional physical talent, and remember that this talent should not be a liability and curse to her.

Hang in there, it's difficult to go through this, and I admire you for you effort, Just remember IMO you can't be the solution, you can only help her find one, if she wants one.

 

[Galadriel]

gee
i wish my son had an understanding coach
he was apparently talented (coach said he reminded him of a kid who at time was 15 but now is 20 and world medalist ) at that age
insanely strong, naughty, and wilful.
my son got kicked out of club.
since diagnosed with aspergers.
the discipline he actually thrived on, but dealing with other gymnasts and social skills were an anathema.
shame!

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

I believe that kids do the things they do, better or worse, for a reason. Sometimes we try to put a label on a child's behavior and end up getting it completely wrong, so be careful not to judge her as you won't be able to see the obvious reason right before your eyes, or hear it as she tries her best to communicate it with the limited ability a 10 yo child is cursed with.

I've been down this road more than a few times and know how frustrating it can be to work with a child who has "exotic sports car" physical gifts but is driving an "old clunker" when it come to the other characteristics that create a "gymnast". Here are some suspicions that may lead you on your honorable "quest" to "help" this child, and remember these are only suggestions:

She has her own agenda that makes sense to her...you have your's, and with-in that context, the battles ensue.

She can't appreciate her gifts as they have been there all her life. She may think everybody else is crazy for singling her out for advanced training.

She has "watched" a lot of gymnastics and has applied her own logic to the laws of physics that govern human movement, and much of what you say makes no sense at all. In her mental image she see's good where you see bad.

Her flashes of brilliance are only temporary deviations from the above possibilities, and her "exceptions" are the result of being "broken down". Fast forward to the obvious result of this reality.

She doesn't give a ^%$# sandwich about all the gymnastics corrections, she's just a common 10 yo who happens to have uncanny abilities and likes getting "flippy and twisty".


She's ADHD and can't think past what's happening right now that grabs her attention or interest. This is immensely frustrating for her as she feels constant criticism from all angles in every aspect of her life. It's very destuctive when you consider she is only taking in information that finds it's way to the forefront of her attention, and then only for that moment until something else facinating comes along. Please use that as information rather than criticism, as I can tell you have the best intentions at heart.


She just needs to mature and have fun in the process of learning "intermediate skills" until something clicks for her. I was this way because I started in High School with a "wanna-be football settled for gymnastics coach" who knew just enough to keep us from getting hurt, and nothing more. It took just one year with a coach in college to turn me into one of the best in the country on my favorite event. But those were the old days when a scale on the unevens was still in the code of points.

Try talking to this kid several times in the most "non fault" manner possible. Do not try to guide the discussion to her behavior, let her do that for you. Take her information as valid and credible, and then go make some sense out of it. You may just be opening the door for a child with exceptional physical talent, and remember that this talent should not be a liability and curse to her.

Hang in there, it's difficult to go through this, and I admire you for you effort, Just remember IMO you can't be the solution, you can only help her find one, if she wants one.

So much of this could be used to describe my dd. I have long thought that she is probably borderline ADHD or maybe is. I think the main thing that keeps it from being a huge issue is the fact that she has her gymnastics.

 

[emorymom]

I don't know that the coach has any reason to think she is ADHD or Aspergers. It seems that she just does not like to be corrected. I don't think there is any reason to kick her out of gym but it might be a good reason to hold her at the level she's at until she is ready to process corrections appropriately.

 

[flipflopcrystal]

yeah i'm not looking to diagnose it, i am just looking for ways (maybe for people who have seen this before) to address it, either through punishment, or whatnot.

like I said, sometime she does make corrections. but it's like every other day. and it depends on the skill.

she will have a great workout, then a "shut down" workout. it's just frustrating, and to me a waste of her time. she could be doing much better...

 

[SignHere]

What about just keeping her at level 6 until she is ready to be coached consistently, coaching her on the days that she is ready to work, and having her work strength or something "safe" on her off days?

You should not be wasting your time attempting to coach an athlete who is not willing to be coached. She is old enough to learn what she needs to do in order to move along. I find it incredibly irritating when people want to make excuses and exceptions for their children. What about all the other girls in the gym who are there, ready to work, and willing to take corrections and coaching? All this extra effort is just taking time and attention away from them.

 

[ZZMom]

People do learn differently so it is possible that focusing on the correction actually does make her forget how to do the skill.

Or, she could have insecurities that make it difficult for her to process corrections as positive. My little daughter is like this. She can shut down totally if she feels like she is being criticized. She is starting (at 6) to understand that a coach giving her a correction doesn't mean that they don't like her. I would hate to have anyone write off my daughter or keep her from progressing before exploring other alternatives to work with her.

Or she could just be a brat.

Best wishes,

ZZMom

 

[Kiwi]

yeah i'm not looking to diagnose it, i am just looking for ways (maybe for people who have seen this before) to address it, either through punishment, or whatnot...

Definitely not through punishment! Be very very careful how you interpret behaviour in children. Children have their own perspectives and they can be very different from adult perspectives. Do the parents have any insight into their child's behaviour? My DD can be very temperamental at times, although not so much at gym in the ways you are describing. My DD is very perfectionistic and extremely sensitive to criticism. She gets frustrated very easily and will sometimes cry and say things like "I'll never get it!". She went through a bad patch when she thought the coach was yelling at her.

I am in teacher training and the way we are trained to give criticism (and the way they give it to us as teachers) is to give positive feedback, followed by 'next steps'. So instead of telling you what you got wrong, they tell you what you got right, and what your next steps are to work on.

In the same vein, there is a wonderful coach at our gym who often begins sentences with "See if you can....". So if you are working on handstands, for example, he will start with only two or three tips to begin with (e.g. "See if you can spread your hands wide and push your shoulders to your ears"). Once you've practised those for a while, he will say "Good - now, see if you can also squeeze your legs tightly together". If someone is doing something badly wrong he will tell them to make them aware of it, but even then when he gives the correction, he will say "see if you can...".

Instead of coming across as a criticism, it comes across as a 'next step' or challenge to improve. Psychologically, it feels like you are making something good even better (positive), rather than trying to fix something bad (negative). I know there are some people who would disagree with this approach ("kids are too soft these days", etc.) but I believe it is good psychology and it generally works well, so it makes sense to me to use what is effective.

I also agree with the poster who said some kids need to feel it and just telling them isn't very effective. For example, some coaches use gentle prods to encourage tightness. Shaping them, getting them to make the shapes in an easier exercise, etc. The muscles need to feel how it should be.

 

[flipflopcrystal]

i think what I mean by punishment is when she outright "refuses" to do things correctly but purposely doing something like a "backward roll to push up" very wrong and is something I have seen her do many times correctly.

i am asking how to address that?

with new skills, i know it takes correct shaping and positions, which she is shown and frequently put in, and using positive, proactive comments when correcting her. with that, if she doesn't understand and purposely does her basics (i.e. when correcting her set for her backtuck, she "forgets" how to do a roundoff backhandspring") worse because she is "frustrated" that she is not able to make the asked correction. how can that behavior be addressed?

like I said, sometimes she will make a correction, the next day it could be completely different.

and every kid is different, so it's hard to explain. i'm just trying different ways to correct the behavior so that she is able to do the best she can everyday and feel good about it. i hope that makes sense.

 

[Kiwi]

It does make sense, just be very careful about calling something 'purposely'. It might look deliberate to an adult, but feel different from the kid's perspective. We've had an issue recently with DD and her coach that isn't identical to this but there are some similarities. I'm not an experienced coach, but I'd probably try calmly getting her to work on whatever the problem skill was. Rather than punishing her for deliberately doing it wrong, I would calmly say 'it looks like you need to work on your backward rolls today, until you can get your arms straight', for example. If she really is able to do it properly, she should be able to quickly move on once she's had her vent. If it is coming from frustration, it isn't personal, so don't make it personal in return. My DD sometimes cries in the gym from frustration and some coaches don't like crying. Her old coach used to yell at her to stop crying, which only inflamed the whole situation. I advised the coach to just ignore it, as once DD's had her vent, she will pick herself up and carry on. You also might need to accept you are not going to get her best from her every day.

I just thought of another thing, is she getting enough sleep? My DD gets far more temperamental when she is overtired.

 

[juststartingout]

My gymnast is 6yo and is being treated for anxiety and a lot of these behaviors sound like her. I'm not trying to diagnose her but just want you to know there may be reasons beyond her control for her behavior and what might seem deliberate may not be. One characteristic of anxiety is that these kids seem to be sensitive to corrections of any kind they will also tend to take things out of context. My daughter once stopped talking to her best friend because her friend named her baby doll after her. Instead of seeing it as a good thing she was insulted. Little minds work in mysterious ways. She could just be outright ignoring you but maybe not and it would be sad to give up on a kid who loves the sport and has talent. My daughter was queen of the clueless stare before she started her medicine. As far as how best to help her my best advice is that maybe when she is doing something incorrectly or sloppy purposely ignore her. Not just ignore the sloppy form actually turn away so she knows she is not getting your attention(obviously you can't do this if you are spotting her but on things she can already do herself). If you have her sit out she could shut down more and you are acknowledging her bad behavior.

 

[Rainee100]

I have to disagree with your assessment that she is "done." She might be, but it could also just be a personality/anxiety characteristic. My son can be the same way-if he thinks he did something wrong or disappointed his teacher, coach, or even my husband or me, he will effectively 'shut down,' just like this girl is doing. For him, it is related to some anxiety and perfection issues and we have been working on it since he was in 3 year old preschool. We have had repeated problems with teachers who think he doesn't understand them because he will absolutely refuse to answer with a kind of 'deer in the headlights' look. Now, when he gets like this, he will not answer any question, but this girl might because it is not drawing attention to her performance, who knows? My son is slowly improving, but we have worked with him pretty diligently and have even put him in a private school that works much better with his personality and that has helped, as has the increase in maturity as he has gotten older. I still also stay for his classes at the gym, so if I see this behavior with his coach, the first thing he has to do the following class is apologize, but he really can't help it in the moment and fortunately it doesn't happen often in gymnastics and on the rare occassions it does happen, his coach understands. Unless you havehad a child like tbis, it ishard to understand that they are not being little sh^#s on purpose, but because of how they are.

I agree with this completely. My daughter was notorious for this and she is a very high anxiety kid. I'm not a
coach, but the simple solution is to keep a flip camera or iPhone handy. Tell her you'd like to video tape her with the correction so she can see when she is doing it right. If she is doing it intentionally, she will suddenly shape up. If not you can show her what she is doing incorrectly.