WAG Most Valuable Specialist, offshoot thread

[profmom]

And they're basically competitive cheer teams. Which is fine. But it's not "acro" in the sense of USAG acro.

Yeah, I had wondered about that -- if it was some kind of ploy to up the women's numbers on the cheap. I wish they could cut around 20 football scholarships at D1s. That would make room for a lot of men's and women's gymnastics teams. Heck, even with some room for real acro!

 

[MILgymFAM]

Don't know how reliable it is, but according to scholarshipstats.com, there are actually more athletes competing acrobatics and tumbling in NCAA programs than male artistic gymnasts. I'm glad club opportunities seem to be growing for the guys, but geez.

Which means more opportunities for somebody but not acro (or rhythmic) or trampolinists. Power tumbling is obviously a part of t&t, but in our experience is the event that lags for most people. It's really a way to do cheer- my DD and I watched a team gym/acro comp and it was a trip. Cheer about 90%..

 

[tomtnt]

Less football scholarships wouldn't necessarily help women's athletics. It would mean schools can offer fewer sports scholarships to women's sport and still be in compliance with title 9. It would help men's gymnastics (and wresting and other less popular male sports)

Yeah, I had wondered about that -- if it was some kind of ploy to up the women's numbers on the cheap. I wish they could cut around 20 football scholarships at D1s. That would make room for a lot of men's and women's gymnastics teams. Heck, even with some room for real acro!

 

[raenndrops]

And they're basically competitive cheer teams. Which is fine. But it's not "acro" in the sense of USAG acro.

It is called Acrobatics and Tumbling, of which there is both.
Actually, there are 6 parts to it:
Event 1 – Compulsory - Each team competes identical pre-determined set of skills with a pre-determined starting value of 10.0.
There are four heats that include acro, pyramid, toss and tumbling.
Each heat can score up to a perfect 10, with the total combined event score of 40 points.
This is basically all of the events (compulsory version). You do what is prescribed, how prescribed.

Event 2 – Acro – In the acro event, teams compete in three different heats of 5, 6, and 7 element acro skills.
In the acro event, teams of typically 2-4 athletes will compete acrobatic movements demonstrating great strength, balance, technique and core from both the bases and tops.
Each heat may score up to a perfect 10 with a total combined score in this event up to 30 points.
THIS Event is kind of like Cheer Stunting.

Event 3 – Pyramid – In this event, teams compete in three individual heats of pyramids valued at up to 10 points per heat for a maximum of 30 points for the event.
Teams want to use as few athletes as possible to create the most unique and difficult pyramid. Each heat has a different requirement: inverted top, synchronized and open.
This is a little like a cheer pyramid… but when I see a girl in a tabletop on top of 2 other girls and a 4th girl does a press handstand on the knees of the 3rd girl, color me impressed.

Event 4 – Toss – The toss event is a high flying event with four athletes tossing a fifth athlete (top) high in the air, while completing flipping and/or twisting forward or backward.
Two of the three heats are solo tosses while one heat is a synchronized toss.
Each of the three toss heats may score up to 10 points each for a total maximum score for the event of up to 30 points.
Again, similar to cheer stunting.

Event 5 – Tumbling – The tumbling event shows the sheer power of each team.
Six heats construct the Tumbling Event with 10 points each for a maximum of 60 points for the event.
Athletes may compete in both the synchronized portion and in one solo pass.
In this event, tumbling combinations will feature difficulty, multiple flips, and twists in various passes with athletes tumbling both forward and backward.
This is straight up TUMBLING… They have to be synchronized on the group stuff (including stuck landings or step-out… which has to all be declared beforehand). Cheer, doesn't require you to tell them exactly what you will be doing and how you will land each skill.

Event 6 – Team Event – In this event, athletes perform synchronized choreographed skills in a 2 1/2 minute routine set to music.
Each team competes up to 24 athletes.
Routines are composed to showcase all skill sets that have been competed in the previous five events.
This event has a maximum of 110 points, making it extremely crucial to the outcome of the meet.
There is really no "cheering" to it, but I can see where people may get confused.

They get girls from the worlds of Artistic gymnastics (usually L8+), Acro gymnastics, T&T gymnastics, and cheer… but there are some girls with other experience (diving and track, in particular). For schools without a proper women's gymnastics team, this is a way for a gymnast to get a scholarship. They do recruit specifically for specialists, in addition to "All Arounders" in Acro and Tumbling.

 

[MILgymFAM]

There is really no "cheering" to it, but I can see where people may get confused.

When we watched my ODD had the takeaway of, "so that was cheer without cheering". It could be the one single comp that we watched, but the tumbling wasn't as nice as college gymnastics and there was a lot of stunting like we see in all star cheer... neither of us finished and said, oh that's another way of doing gym. We did say it would be perfect for one of my DDs' teammates but that's because she's mainly a tumbler, but also an all star cheerleader, and also does track and field.

 

[gymdog]

I think it's more like gymnastics. I actually know someone, a former gymnastics coach, coaching that. So I had gotten the idea they were kind of recruiting gymnastics people for this, but it probably also good for higher level cheer kids who don't do sideline cheer and don't want to in college.

 

[raenndrops]

I think it's more like gymnastics. I actually know someone, a former gymnastics coach, coaching that. So I had gotten the idea they were kind of recruiting gymnastics people for this, but it probably also good for higher level cheer kids who don't do sideline cheer and don't want to in college.

The website for it says they often recruit L8-10 artistic and L4-5 All Star Cheer in addition to acro, etc.

 

[josie55]

Here is a good video from a few years ago that shows the history of the sport and what it's about:

 

[raenndrops]

When we watched my ODD had the takeaway of, "so that was cheer without cheering". It could be the one single comp that we watched, but the tumbling wasn't as nice as college gymnastics and there was a lot of stunting like we see in all star cheer... neither of us finished and said, oh that's another way of doing gym. We did say it would be perfect for one of my DDs' teammates but that's because she's mainly a tumbler, but also an all star cheerleader, and also does track and field.

I have seen a few different ones.
I think the tough part on the syncro tumbling has to do with declaring the landing position.
In college gymnastics, they can stick the landing or finish in a lunge or take a small step to a finish position. This refers to one gymnast same pass, different meets.
In A&T, that won't do. And if a gymnast is having an off warmup (say, stepping back on a landing that is supposed to be a stick), you can't swap out for another gymnast.

I just think it is a cool way for girls that "aren't college gymnastics material" to get a scholarship and compete in college... Our high school team had a L10 that did HS this, her senior year, because she wasn't good enough (her words) for college gymnastics. She is a strong tumbler. She also has great balance. It would be perfect for her.

 

[tomtnt]

A&T team allows Oregon to provide 45 spots for women's athletic to count towards their Title IX requirements compared to 12-15 spots on a gymnastics team. In addition, the equipment and space requirement for training seems minimal compared to gymnastics where you would need all 4 apparatus, tumble track, pit, etc.

 

[FlippinLilysMom]

Most, if not all the University of Wisconsin satellite schools have gymnastics programs but not in Madison.

University of Florida is the only university in the state with a program.

Too many of the Power 5 conference schools do not have gymnastics programs. No excuse for that particularly in the age of Power 5 regional networks and digital media and large on campus facilities that are likely under-utilized.

We are huge Badger fans and were so disappointed to find out that Madison doesn't have a gymnastics program!! Maybe someday they will, my DD is only 10, so they have 8 years to get their act together!!

 

[twinmomma]

It's definitely impressive to me in the way that watching high level cheer competitions are impressive. But team tumbling and very cheer style stunts isn't the same as what I see our elite jr. trio acro team doing at all. I'm not dissing it at all. I think it's great fun to watch. But it definitely does seem to be another way for girls who either aren't on the cheer team or like another poster said not artistic college material. I would just love to see the T&Ters get some opportunities at the college level. They could even just add it to a regular gymnastics meet as another few rotations. Double mini can be amazingly impressive, and some of the sheer height of the elite trampolinists jumps alone would be a crowdpleaser.

 

[sce]

any good examples of JO gymnasts who are great at both? seems great bar swingers are tall/lean/Nastia body type while vaulters tend to be powerful/Simone body type.

Elizabeth Price

 

[sce]

Elizabeth Price

Sorry, just saw that you asked JO. She is college now and was elite. I love watching her college bars though, they differ from the many other cookie cutter routines. Her routine is creative and beautiful.

 

[bookworm]

I would vote for bars. I still think, even with the vault value changes, there is larger pool of kids who can reliably/consistently score 9.7/9.8+ on vault than can consistently score 9.7/9.8+ on UB.

I would agree with this, in part, AND I would add that anyone trying to be recruited for NCAA must remember that they always recruit you as an all arounder, and the school decides what gymnast competes 1,2,3 or all events. My other observation through all of this is that people will think beam and floor kids are a dime a dozen but good beam kids are not and a lot of times going to NCAA Nationals comes down to who stayed on the beam (Oklahoma) and who did not (looking at you, Utah and Georgia...) ...both Utah and Georgia have had teams with great vaults and bar workers but not staying on the beam and counting falls totally negates the value of any great vaults/bars and has cost these teams Super 6 appearances....

 

[vagymmomma]

We just had the privilege of seeing Elizabeth Price at a meet this past weekend. She competed floor, vault and bars -- all amazing. Take a look at her bars though -- the combination of speed and skills was a step above the competition.



It was a 9.95 in case you're curious.

 

[bookworm]

We just had the privilege of seeing Elizabeth Price at a meet this past weekend. She competed floor, vault and bars -- all amazing. Take a look at her bars though -- the combination of speed and skills was a step above the competition.



It was a 9.95 in case you're curious.

if she were in the SEC or at Utah, they'd be chanting "10,10, 10" , and she'd deserve it...how she doesn't get a 10 for this routine, when she hits it, baffles me..

 

[profmom]

I have always loved Ebee's gymnastics. She is awesome! But as great as she is at gymnastics, I very much doubt that she'll make her biggest contributions to the world in sports.

 

[twinmomma]

We got to see her vault early in her freshman season. She was amazing. And very sweet to my daughter when she met her after the meet.

 

[gasrgoose]

if she were in the SEC or at Utah, they'd be chanting "10,10, 10" , and she'd deserve it...how she doesn't get a 10 for this routine, when she hits it, baffles me..

Judging of college meets is unrealistic. 10's are giving to routines with small steps and 9.95's are given for stuck routines. I don't envy the judges' position. But anyone that knows a little about gymnastics will realize that all routines shouldn't score between a 9.775 and 9.95. But that is what regularly happens at a college meets. Meanwhile at the JO meet across town a former elite level 10 who's committed to a super six school will score a 9.675 for a stuck routine with higher difficulty. Ugh As a side note I would not be surprised if Maggie Nichols scores a 40.0, she is fantastic!!