Need some advice

[luvmygymnast214]

Sorry to repost this. I posted it in introductions and didn't get any feed back. I am new to this so please forgive me.

The gym we are currently at splits some of the levels up. For example one group of level 5s will practice 12 hours a week because they are more talented or because they have a better gymnast body type. The other group will practice about 8-9 hours a week. They all go to the same competitions and are "teammates" but they don't even practice together. Is this standard for most gyms? It tends to lead to some resentment on the part of the girls who are not supposedly as talented. Anybody have any opinions on this?

 

[Ingwe]

Hi, Welcome to Chalk Bucket.


I am not sure if it is common or not to seperate the girls within a level like that or not.
The gym my dd goes to does not seperate the girls within a level. The compulsories go 3 days a week (M, W, F 3-6) and then the optionals 5 days a week. (5-8:30) That is the only seperation at our gym.

It's not something that I would like. It doesn't seem like a very good message to send the the girls or to the team. All of our girls train together, whether or not some have been "deemed" to be more talented or have the potential to make it to the elite level.

 

[luvmygymnast214]

Thanks! That is how I feel too. My DD is not facing the separation of her level this year but competed against girls who trained 20 hrs a week for level 5 last year which was twice as much as the trained. They are all at the same gym. I just feel that every girl in the gym should be given the same opportunity. The 20 hour a week girls are home-schooled girls. Now they have added a new group that practices after school but for more hours than the "regular" compulsory levels. Just wanted to know that my feelings were justified.

 

[Pickle's Mom]

Hi and welcome to CB!

Pickle's gym separates some of the compulsory girls who are at the same level. It’s not officially by talent or ability, but it kind of works out that way. Right now, there are three separate teams of L5 and 6 girls, each with about 10 members. They have different lead coaches, although they trade back and forth on events.

My daughters group is the younger girls who are typically considered to be able to pick up skills faster. Because they do TOPS, they train a few extra hours per week. Consistency and form are the most important things to this group. Hours per week: 14-15

The second has mostly older girls who started gymnastics later. They don’t spend as much time on conditioning and perfecting form. Instead, they work more on getting new skills. A lot of these girls go onto HS teams or cheer/dance squad. While they may move to Optionals, that isn’t necessarily a goal. They are all great girls, but I’m kind of relieved by 8 yo isn’t surrounded by 14 year olds. Hours per week: 12

The last group is everyone else. They aren’t doing TOPS, but they are training towards being Optionals. They train the same hours as the group of older girls, but do more conditioning. Hours per week: 12

Workouts are somewhat staggered to make sure that there is enough time on equipment (remember, there are also L4s and Optionals using the same side of the gym and not everyone fits comfortably at once). At competition, they are all together.

All the girls know each other and I’ve never heard of any resentments.
Pickle’s L4 team was split between these three groups and it was kind of clear to each of us who would go where. She was sad to not be on the same team as her favorite teammate (who is 12), but I think the teammate is relieved to be in her own peer group.

 

[luvmygymnast214]

Ours is not separated by age. My DD is in a group with girls up to 5 years older than she is. She is actually the youngest in her group and the closest to her age is about two years older. I guess my problem is that girls in the same age group, from the same gym, will compete against each other without the same training. The girls in the new group are not in TOPS so their extra training is team practice. If any of them do TOPS that would still be extra time. It was very stressful for my DD to know she was going up against a group of girls her age that trained twice as much as she did.

 

[standsonherhands]

Our gym does not separate within levels. Our largest level only has about 12 girls, so the group is never too large. I know I would not like the strategy you are describing. The girls practicing less, will be disadvantaged at competition even within their own gym. Do other gyms in your area do split their levels too? Good luck!

 

[luvmygymnast214]

No. I believe we are the only ones who split like that.

 

[Pickle's Mom]

No. I believe we are the only ones who split like that.

I can see why you don't like it, but it's pretty common for larger gyms to have a Hot Shots group of girls who are pre-selected to move more quickly trhough levels or focus on different things. Even if the girls are the same ages as girls in other groups.

At Pickle's gym there are girls her age on other teams. And I think they use the "train TOPS" as an reason why we pay extra and have more hours, but honestly, so few girls actually test TOPS that it's a bit of a smoke screen.

Do you feel like your daughter isn't getting enough attention? Does she want more hours at the gym?

 

[luvmygymnast214]

She would love more hours. I do feel like we are pushed aside. If our group needs the floor and the other coach is not finished she will not move and our girls have to try to find another event to go to. There have been times when we haven't even gotten to do an event because that group is not finished. But if any other group is not finished and it is their turn to go to that event she will make sure they move on. Just really unfair stuff. We just really don't have another gym close enough to move to. I think that is the main problem...no competition for them. So everyone just stays and puts up with it.

 

[bpatient]

The gym we are currently at splits some of the levels up. For example one group of level 5s will practice 12 hours a week because they are more talented or because they have a better gymnast body type. The other group will practice about 8-9 hours a week . . . Anybody have any opinions on this?

Well, thanks for asking—I do have an opinion on this. Here it is:

It's quite easy for a concerned parent to feel that dd is somehow being slighted or overlooked by gymnastics coaches; seeing a child relegated to the “less intensiveâ€￾ group might sting. We all want what is best for our daughters. The important question is this: What is best?

Odds are that almost all of those level 5 girls at your gym will leave the sport within a few years, whether they now practice 12 hours each week with the “more talentedâ€￾ group or are relegated to the lower-intensity group and practice 8-9 hours weekly: On average in recent years there have been roughly 17,500 girls competing at that level, compared to the ca. 250 athletes who join an NCAA women's gymnastics team each year; about 85% of the girls who join the JO program leave it by 14 years of age. Accordingly it seems reasonable to try to make a child's experience in gymnastics as positive and enjoyable as possible—long-term success depends on many factors, and some of those factors are clearly beyond the athlete's control. Long training hours certainly increase the gymnastics skills of those rare athletes who survive the orthopedic elimination process and endure to compete at high levels, but I don't think that it's at all clear that, over all, long training hours really benefit the majority of JO competitors—in fact in some ways those long training hours can clearly be detrimental.

Seminal studies by the dean of “expert performanceâ€￾ researchers, Anders Ericsson, showed over two decades ago that long hours of resolutely-focused, deliberate practice sustained over years are the key to developing expertise, and that seems to be as true in gymnastics as it is in chess, mathematics, or music. (For example, the prize-winning young violinists Ericsson studied had by age 18 devoted twice as many hours to solo practice (the most rigorous practice for violinists) as those who grew to become violin teachers.) However, whether it is only a few years or ten or more years from now, your daughter will become a former gymnast, and her expertise in other fields will also depend on how much effort she exerts in those other domains. That raises interesting choices, since each of us is not really trying to produce a gymnast so much as to raise a daughter to become a healthy and happy adult.

 

[luvmygymnast214]

I do agree that most of them will leave. We have had several leave from her group over the summer. And I have seen that some of the girls who practice the longer hours end up quitting sooner than I believe they would if left with the regular group. I guess my point is that if they are better then they will be better with the same amount of practice as everyone else. There have also been some pretty bad injuries with a few of these girls. I don't think the other girls should feel inferior to them. What makes me sad is that our gym has not always been this way.

My dd will move the furniture in my house to do strengthening and oversplits and so on. She LOVES to be at the gym. She also loves school. She is a straight A student. She just works at everything she does very hard.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

We have recreational 5 and USAG 5. They don't practice together but they also do not go to the same meets. It seems odd to separate them if they are competing at the same meets?...I don't get it either.

 

[MamaofEnS]

My DD's gym does separate girls. The TOPS girls train more hours, and have some of their own coaches. They compete at the same meets as the rest of the "team". My DD is not in the TOPS group, so she definitely doesn't get as much attention as some of her other teammates, but she doesn't seem to care.

MamaofEnS

 

[hannahsmom]

My dd's gym separates some of their lower levels and, like Pickle's Mom said, we also have a "Hot Shot" type group. For example, we have a preteam that would be something like L3/4, then we have a L4 group (I think they were probably preteam last year) and then we have a "hot shot" type group that will compete limited L4 meets, but definitely practices more hours than the other two groups. Then they do something similar at L5 as well. But, I think once they get into compulsories, they are pretty much together. I think some has to do with strength, some has to do with maturity level/focus and then obviously some ability level/talent. At our last gym, they separated levels by age but the hours didn't differ.

 

[luvmygymnast214]

Thanks everyone! This has helped. Although it is not a concern this year for my dd it was last year. She is a POG this year but I don't know what next year will have in store for us. Just want to be prepared to do what is best for her. It was really hard for her last year to compete against girls who trained twice as much as she did. It helps me to have a place to talk about it where people understand.

 

[Panda-girl's Mom]

I can understand where you are coming from and why you would be upset. My daughers first year competing was really tough she was7 year old level 4 who only trianed 2hour 1Xx a week before she was placed on the team. Her hours were increased to9 3months prior to her first meet. Meanwhile girls were placed in her group that were older had a year of developmental classes which I believed practiced more prior to placing on th team but when they started competing they all went 9 hours. My daughter was not ready but I think because she was younger the owner felt she had the potential to move up faster. She ended up repeating level 4 anyway and the girls who more prepared moved up. It all worked out in the end and now I am happy how things have going in her gym they seem to group everyone fairly she practices the same hours as everybody else competing her level eventhough the move up some girls I can see it is definitley based on ability and talent and they girls with the more hours are competing higher levels. I would talk to the coaches or owner and express your concerns. I did do this back when it happened and now the younger girls do trian more before they start competing. I hope things work out for your daughter.

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

I do understand where you are coming from. My problem is not really with the fact that they are splitting up the girls by who they think is more talented but by the message it sends when the "less talented" group does not get the same practice time or practice quality. IMHO if I am paying the gym to train my DD for Level 5 I would want them to give her the same opportunities that they give every level 5 team member. Same hours and same quality of coaching. I would not care what group she was placed in but at least be given a fair shake!

 

[luvmygymnast214]

I do understand where you are coming from. My problem is not really with the fact that they are splitting up the girls by who they think is more talented but by the message it sends when the "less talented" group does not get the same practice time or practice quality. IMHO if I am paying the gym to train my DD for Level 5 I would want them to give her the same opportunities that they give every level 5 team member. Same hours and same quality of coaching. I would not care what group she was placed in but at least be given a fair shake!

Thanks! That is exactly how I feel. Could not have said it better myself.

 

[AGM78910]

This exact scenario happened at my DD's first gym. At levels 4 and 5 a group of girls was singled out and given extra practice days and extra coaching. (That gym did not do TOPS so that was not a factor.) We were all paying the same amount of money. It caused huge resentment on the part of the parents and the kids who were not in that group. Most of them ended up leaving because their kids were not "talented" enough or did not have the right body type.

Of the ones who left, about half quit the sport entirely (and you have to wonder if they were encouraged whether they would still be in gymnastics). The rest of them took their kids to other gyms that nurtured their talent and were surprised to find out that their kids really loved the sport and a lot of them are optional now (my daughter included). Most of them were late bloomers. Funny thing is most of the kids at that gym who were given extra coaching at the original gym are gone now.

My suggestion is that you talk to the owners and if you get no results, then leave. It is so unfair to the kid and the owners need to know that. The kids never felt like a team and there was some bullying on the part of the "chosen" kids. We ended up going to a gym that was over a 30 minute drive to get the coaching that my daughter needed. It is not worth paying for poor coaching. We had to do a lot of privates for her to get the skills she should have gotten at the first gym.

IMHO, some gym owners and coaches are in it for the glory and don't really care about the individual kids as long as they can get some kids on the podium for bragging rights.

 

[luvmygymnast214]

Thanks for the advice. We have seen a lot of the "chosen" ones leave. I think the over training makes them dislike the sport altogether. Especially when they are so young.