WAG New Sexual Lawsuit Targets Nassar, the Karolyis, USA Gymnastics, et al

[Terry]

Sexual abuse goes on in every place, arena, activity, where adult men have access to young people from a position of authority and trust. So we see it in schools, among the clergy, in sports coaching. I suspect it's more prevalent in the medical field than has been acknowledged. It has NOTHING to do with gymnastics specifically. Nassar was the team physician.

 

[sce]

Sexual abuse goes on in every place, arena, activity, where adult men have access to young people from a position of authority and trust. So we see it in schools, among the clergy, in sports coaching. I suspect it's more prevalent in the medical field than has been acknowledged. It has NOTHING to do with gymnastics specifically. Nassar was the team physician.

First, not just men women abuse too.

Second, not gymnastics per se, but it sounds like there are issues within the national team system that made it more possible.

 

[LJL07]

Do not mistake it for being the sport. It isn't.

I know there are good and compassionate coaches, but there also seem to be a lot who have grown up in this sport, suffered from their own bad treatment, and now they are coaching. It's not good. Unfortunately it does seem to occur with more frequency in this sport than others. It is sad and discouraging.

 

[flowerchild]

So awful. It's nauseating. But I am seeing more and more the reasoning behind US Figure Skating Rules regarding child safety and coach interactions. For instance, my younger daughter is on a synchronized skating team. 2 parent volunteers are required to be in the locker room with the team. So not all the parents, but 2 of them, are present, so the coach is not alone with the girls. I wish USAG would adopt a similar policy. I'm not saying all coaches are abusive, etc, but, there needs to be more checks and balances .

 

[Terry]

First, not just men women abuse too.

Second, not gymnastics per se, but it sounds like there are issues within the national team system that made it more possible.

The number of women who abuse children sexually is minuscule. Yes, it happens. But it is overwhelmingly a male problem.

And yes, there are issues within the national team structure that make abuse possible. Just like there are issues within both public and private schools and church run institutions and college and High School sports etc etc that make abuse possible there.

Rather than blaming this on gymnastics, how about coming up with some common sense rules -- athletes never alone with coaches, PTs, team doctors -- and implementing them.

 

[Terry]

So awful. It's nauseating. But I am seeing more and more the reasoning behind US Figure Skating Rules regarding child safety and coach interactions. For instance, my younger daughter is on a synchronized skating team. 2 parent volunteers are required to be in the locker room with the team. So not all the parents, but 2 of them, are present, so the coach is not alone with the girls. I wish USAG would adopt a similar policy. I'm not saying all coaches are abusive, etc, but, there needs to be more checks and balances .

Totally agree. Some good, basic common sense rules would eliminate a lot of this.

 

[Gymmommy71]

So awful. It's nauseating. But I am seeing more and more the reasoning behind US Figure Skating Rules regarding child safety and coach interactions. For instance, my younger daughter is on a synchronized skating team. 2 parent volunteers are required to be in the locker room with the team. So not all the parents, but 2 of them, are present, so the coach is not alone with the girls. I wish USAG would adopt a similar policy. I'm not saying all coaches are abusive, etc, but, there needs to be more checks and balances .

Instead elite gymnastics has a system that forbids parents to even be at the facility where overnight stays are involved. That rule is what infuriates me the most about all of this, as well
as how all of it is so based on invitations and the opinions of so few.

Basically our selection process goes like this - "we think your very young daughter may have what it takes to eventually be on the national team, we'd like to invite her to come to our camps in the middle of nowhere. You are not allowed to come and she will stay in our cabins overnight (not in a hotel with you). We can have whoever we want there at this camp, but YOU, her parent and guardian, are not allowed to be around. In fact, we'd prefer you were not even in the state. Well do these camps multiple times a year for years, and she may or may not be invited back each time depending on how she does and if we think she still has what it takes. So basically, we can cut her at anytime if she or you get out of line, and she'll no longer have any other avenue into our elite system as long as we are in charge. And we are in charge indefinitely."

And people are surprised that such a system led to the abuse of young girls?

 

[3gymgirlsmom]

I am so glad my girls coaches are so upset by things like this, my ODD has a male coach and I trust him with all my heart, he actually coached my girls when they were younger and now with the high school team he is head coach and he is so great with the girls, he jokes and has fun with them , and my other 2 girls coaches I trust them as well and I will send my dd off for camps with her coach but also i have known her for years as well. I cannot imagine not being able to trust them.

 

[Sasha]

I am so glad my girls coaches are so upset by things like this, my ODD has a male coach and I trust him with all my heart, he actually coached my girls when they were younger and now with the high school team he is head coach and he is so great with the girls, he jokes and has fun with them , and my other 2 girls coaches I trust them as well and I will send my dd off for camps with her coach but also i have known her for years as well. I cannot imagine not being able to trust them.

Sadly, the trust and admiration you are feeling and have expressed here is exactly what people feel and say about these repeat predators right up until the truth comes out (and often, even after as there will be those who refuse to believe). These predators are enormously charming ("loved by all!"), and gain trust and admiration better than anyone. It is the reason they are able to repeat the abuse so long, as they are the last people anyone would expect.

 

[GymDad9.9]

The number of women who abuse children sexually is minuscule. Yes, it happens. But it is overwhelmingly a male problem.

And yes, there are issues within the national team structure that make abuse possible. Just like there are issues within both public and private schools and church run institutions and college and High School sports etc etc that make abuse possible there.

Rather than blaming this on gymnastics, how about coming up with some common sense rules -- athletes never alone with coaches, PTs, team doctors -- and implementing them.

Sexual abuse aside, the charges in this lawsuit also include verbal and physical abuse, intimidation and deprivation of sustenance, topics that get addressed with some regularity on this board and not exclusive to the Ranch. What struck me about the lawsuit was the alleged connections between the sexual abuse and the other abuses seemingly working in conjunction with one another. If those connections were true and can be made valid in a court of law, the sport of gymnastics is gonna get a huge black eye.

 

[gymdog]

Sadly, the trust and admiration you are feeling and have expressed here is exactly what people feel and say about these repeat predators right up until the truth comes out (and often, even after as there will be those who refuse to believe). These predators are enormously charming ("loved by all!"), and gain trust and admiration better than anyone. It is the reason they are able to repeat the abuse so long, as they are the last people anyone would expect.

If anything, it's even more common for abusers to be described as befriending families, joking with the kids, etc. That's how they groom them and identify potential targets for abuse.

Although I don't necessarily believe in not trusting anyone, it is important to be aware of the patterns of behavior predators engage in. Important to talk to the kids and tell them they should never trust any adult who tells them to keep secrets, and that they can say no to an adult.

 

[Aero]

Sadly, the trust and admiration you are feeling and have expressed here is exactly what people feel and say about these repeat predators right up until the truth comes out (and often, even after as there will be those who refuse to believe). These predators are enormously charming ("loved by all!"), and gain trust and admiration better than anyone. It is the reason they are able to repeat the abuse so long, as they are the last people anyone would expect.

This is the sad but true part of it all. But please! Don't let this stop you from loving and trusting your coaches!

 

[Faith]

I still think I'd also be suing the national body for osteopathy and the GMC for ever certifying "intravaginal adjustment" as a medical treatment outside of an ob/gyn office. So open to abuse. I assume males are still able to be treated effectively despite not having a vagina to adjust? So it seems at best unnecessary, at worst an opportunity for abusers.


I've said this on previous threads, but thought I'd say it again.

I do send my child to national camps without us. One of the main reasons we were given is that these kids are the ones they're hoping will be national squad, with international assignments. A big part of the camps is learning independence- so everything from making healthy choices from hotel menus, to packing their own cases, being responsible for their own stuff, and learning to work with other adults and athletes with no parents present.

DD has already had an international assignment. She went with the national squad to another country, confident that she knew the chaperones, national coaches, and some of her team mates. I can't imagine a child's first experience of staying with national team being such a big comp.

However. Our safeguarding is very different to yours in the US. The coaches are in the gym only. Outside of training they have chaperones, who are trained in child welfare. They do not have coaches phone numbers. They are not "friends" on social media.

What I did do though is refuse permission for ANY medical tests, drug tests, lactate tests etc, unless I was present.

I trust our system, I trust the coaches and the chaperones. However I do not do so blindly, I watch out for anything unusual or inappropriate. But again, our safeguarding rules in sport means if I have the slightest concern or worry, even if completely unfounded, I can take it up with a named, trained welfare officer who will officially record things and escalate to child protection if necessary- for example if they've had multiple reports of seemingly small incidents that add up to a bigger picture.

 

[flowerchild]

Faith, you have a very good point about the independence, etc. the only problem I would have with " chaperones" being designated by the National Organization, and not being parents of girls involved, is that a Chaperone, if employed by the gymnastics organization, may be influenced by his or her employer/ needing to keep the job.

 

[suds]

Individual gyms and USA Gymnastics currently have a choice:

Wise = Carefully and thoroughly updating policies and procedures and communicating these implemented changes out to athletes, parents, and coaching staff. This includes both: Proactive Policies and Procedures (ensuring many layers of safety for the child with the goal of prevention of abuse) and Reactive Policies and Procedures (when concerns are raised, ensuring that the follow up process meets current legal, ethical, and moral standards).

Unwise = Status quo.

It will be interesting to see which organizations choose what category over the upcoming months.

Antiquated policies and procedures regarding safety have no place in our gymnastics community.

 

[Faith]

is that a Chaperone, if employed by the gymnastics organization, may be influenced by his or her employer/ needing to keep the job.

Chaperones aren't employed by National Squad coaches or anybody running the national squad. They're employed by the National Governing Body. So they wouldn't be reporting their employer. British Gymnastics has a clear, written safeguarding policy (check its website). They are far more likely to lose their job, and the ability to ever work with children again, if they don't report.

 

[mariposa]

Hopefully USAG is really taking this all seriously, this is on their website as of today. https://usagym.org/pages/post.html?PostID=19437&prog=

 

[bogwoppit]

Nah, they are hiring someone to investigate them. That is never going to work. They need investigating by the FBI.

I am still wondering when charges will be laid.

 

[Mamabearof3]

That seems it will take FOREVER

 

[Jenny]

Nah, they are hiring someone to investigate them. That is never going to work. They need investigating by the FBI.

I am still wondering when charges will be laid.

absolutely agree this is just damage control before the real stuff happens.