WAG Question for judges

[GymGirl's Mom]

A couple things I saw/noticed. Her run doesn't accelerate and actually seems to slow down as she approached the spring board- that's a deduction. The spring board appears way too close to the mat stack (probably why she went over the line). The mat stack IS low... is that a Level 2 thing? She doesn't keep tight and keep her feet together and pikes a bit.

Does she have a "number" she runs from? I didn't see her check the runway. The number is the distance she runs from- it should be the same at practices and competition. I think it would help her run to have a number she runs from. It helps her find her steps to her hurdle and helps the vault all come together. I didn't see her check her number-- but that's not to say she didn't, or doesn't have one. Sorry for the laymen's terms on this-- that's all I am a mom who hears her daughter talk about vault and listens when the coaches explain to us parents what vault is all about-- sorry if I am using incorrect terminology.

What makes me most sad in all of this is her gym is not going to let her move up without a 34 AA. Sigh... DD can't even WATCH videos of her first year competing (7 y/o old Level 3) terrible! Everything! She has blossomed into a good solid gymnast over the years. I don't think performance/scores in L2 (old L3) has anything to do with determining future success or gymnastic ability- it sure didn't for ANY girl on DD's team- they all were terrible! They all are NOT terrible now- and none of them repeated!!!

Just wanted to add a disclaimer that I am not a judge and I am aware your thread asked for judge's advice/opinions. Your DD is adorable and deserves a chance to move on!

 

[gymdog]

Sometimes it is harder to get them to run from a number at this stage than to just work on adjusting from various points. Obviously as they become more advanced then they need to measure the correct number of steps, but at level 2 I wouldn't necessarily find not doing that a red flag.

 

[MaryA]

lol...she is cute isnt she lol...i find it hilarious when she picks the wedge, cuz she aint got no shame in that lol...

This does not stop when they're little and cute. Go watch the optionals. They do it too.

 

[gothgymmom]

Thank You GymGirl's Mom! I feel so bad for her because last year she was L3, and she didnt make the score then either to be moved up to the new L3 (old L4 i think) and was the only one from her team who got held back. She has improved immensly from last year, but it doesnt seem like its enough. I was reading the USAG website about what scores are needed for each level to move up, and on there it states there is no score, but i guess it depends on the gym if they want to have them reach a certain score before they move up, or even allow them to be able to test to move up.

I know she will feel horrible if she gets held back again, and im not sure what to say to her if they do .

 

[2G1B]

Have they suggested the possibility of excel and then moving back on to jo at 4 when she is ready? Being completely honest, I watched the videos and the scores seemed appropriate for the routines that she did. She is missing a good bit with form. Maybe doing excel would give her the chance to do something new while fixing the form issues.

 

[gothgymmom]

They have not mentioned anything like that...i have noticed her form sucks, but as a parent what can i do other than suggest to her coaches to try to correct it? If i say anything to her she says" im trying, i do my best", or " i know" but really doesnt try to fix it...you think camp can help with that? shes going to igc this summer

 

[Quadqueen]

I would not expect any major changes/improvement in one week of camp. Camp is great for the fun experience they'll have, but to expect new skills and/or a big improvement in form is unrealistic.

As far as the score requirement to move up....I haven't seen her other events, but what was the highest AA she scored this year? If this is her second year at this level, I would think the gym might try to give her a chance at the next level, because like others have said, these low compulsory levels don't necessarily mean she can't succeed at the higher levels. But I know your gym has some kind of exact AA cut-off.

Not knowing her exact abilities, strengths and witnesses, her coaches may be seeing something that is making them think she should not move up, regardless of her scores. Some kids can produce so-so scores, but their coaches see potential in them that a parent can't see (and vice versa - coaches are not seeing the potential, and a parent is blind to that).

 

[gymmiemom]

They have not mentioned anything like that...i have noticed her form sucks, but as a parent what can i do other than suggest to her coaches to try to correct it? If i say anything to her she says" im trying, i do my best", or " i know" but really doesnt try to fix it...you think camp can help with that? shes going to igc this summer

I would not count on camp helping. Some of her form might come with age. Is this her first year competing? It took my DD a while to really get what "tight" meant and the fact that she had to stay tight on everything. Gymnastics requires a lot of body awareness at a very young age and if it isn't something that comes naturally then it can take a while to click.

Fingers crossed for your DD that she gets that score!

 

[2G1B]

Hmmm. I don't know what the answer is there. In general, I think move up scores at level 2 are dumb. I can understand something like a 34 for level 3. BUT... normally the girls who are on their second year of one of these low levels, at least around here, go on to have an AMAZING second year. Are her scores a lot better this year than last year? I just think that level 3 does have some decently big stuff that level 2 didn't have. Obviously the has the level 3 dismount down. How close to a ROBHS is she? FHC?

If her scores were about the same last year, then I'd really ask to talk to her coaches. (I know that a lot of coaches on here are cringing.) I'd talk to them about that she is still struggling with form and ask what their plan is. I'd come right out and ask if Xcel is an option.

I'll be honest with you again - we had a girl on our old team who had struggled at old level 3 last year; but it was her second year at the level. I don't know if she ever got over around a mid 33 that second year. The gym let her go ahead and move up this year to new 3. She really struggled. The judging is much harder at new 3 than old 3/new 2. She ended up quitting gymnastics. I really do think that if she had been able to move over to Xcel that she would have stuck with it for at least a few more years. She knew that she wasn't the best gymnast out there; but she loved gymnastics. But two tough seasons at old level 3 followed by an even tougher season at new 3 and that love was gone.

On the flip side, my older DD had a moderately successful old level 3 season last year - a couple of 35s, mostly 34s; but also one low 32 and one high 31 (but it turned out that she was sick, so I imagine that was why she had the 31). She went on to swap from spring old level 3 and started new level 3 in August and still managed to have a somewhat successful season - much better than the year before. So it *is* possible to struggle some at level 2 and go on to be successful at level 3; but a switch has to be flipped that gets the girl to start focusing on the straight legs and pointed toes along with the body position.

How old is your DD? I'm sure that you have said at some point; but I don't remember. Age does make a difference in them getting that body awareness. But she also has to be having the corrections from her coaches. And what really seemed to help my girls this year was that their coaches would video them using coach's eye and then go over the videos with them. That made them really SEE that they were piked on the vault or that their legs were NOT straight, toes were NOT pointed, legs were NOT together, etc. But the coaches really have to be helping here some too, not being like, "it is just level 2. Don't worry about it.". (Because if they have that attitude; but then require move up scores... well, that isn't very fair. Not saying your DD's coaches are like this; but just saying.) That spring board was crazy close to those matts. And if those matts were lower than what she normally practices on, then that is going to make it tough for her. Do the coaches often overlook stuff like this? Because if so, then I'd be concerned. If it was a one time thing, then I wouldn't think much of it. (Everyone makes mistakes - last year younger DD's main coach told the other coach to have DD only vault on 3 matts. But DD was going after a few tall girls who used 4 matts. The coach for some reason decided that DD could probably do OK on it. Um, she didn't. The coach didn't make that mistake again and I didn't get all upset about it. It was a mistake.)

 

[MaryA]

Lordy, I have zero memory of the scores my daughter got at that level. She repeated it too (old level 3). I don't think her scores were ever very high, even the second year. It wasn't till (old) level 4 when some degree of body awareness set in and she started looking like a gymnast. Now she's a level 8. She'll repeat 8 next year, but this will be the first level she will have repeated since that long-ago level 3. I'm just saying, don't worry overmuch about it. Your DD will take her cues from you. If you're fretting about scores and move-ups, she will too. If you are just thrilled that she's healthy and active and having fun, and trust her coaches to make the right decision regarding move-ups, she will pick up on that too.

 

[gothgymmom]

her highest AA score this year was a 33.875..she actually got 1st in AA at that meet.she is doing very well this year compared to last year...last year her AA scores ranged between 29 - 31. this year they are all between 30 and 33, so she has improved. She competed old level 3 last year, and since she didnt make the score to test she got held back (new level 3 which is level 2). she will be 8 years old in april. I was trying to talk to her about keeping form and keeping her body tight, and she just kept saying the judges were mean lol. I dont think she has that awareness yet. she can do a decent ROBHS, but needs to work on her FHC. I will see about asking for xcel. anything to help my lovebug. I try not to let her see me get upset at meets, i will walk outside after an event so she doesnt see me..i keep all of my opinions outside of little ears about moving up and scores and such. sigh..

have alot of judges even done gymnastics before? or did they just decide they want to judge them? i can really start seeing truth in the movie "stick it" lol..

Have anyone seen the movie "perfect body"? I asked my HC about when i could let my DD watch it, she never saw it so i let her borrow it, and she said never. what do you all think? as of right now i refuse to let her watch it, but was wondering if later on in life it would be ok.

 

[bogwoppit]

It may be that your gym is just not that good at coaching good form. That happens. If all the girls score around that as second years then chances are the coaches do not sweat the small stuff.

Ballet would help with some of the presentation and dance, but real ballet not some show studio ballet.

Another gym might help too, once where coaches are pickier, though they may put her back a level or hold her back.

Also on a side note, allowing her to think judges are mean is a very bad idea for your DD. She needs to understand that judges are trained to look for faults, faults might not be worth a lot but they add up really quick. Allowing her to believe that she has no control of this is really a terrible disservice to her. At 8 she should understand basic math and subtraction. Perfect is 10 and it is all downhill from there.

You getting upset at meets will not help her either, you going outside will be noticed by her. You need to learn to celebrate the successes and not let your perceived failures bother you. She will feed off that. Some kid always has to come last, that is the nature of gymnastics. Mine have many times, how would tears have helped that?

For me do the meet, move on and buy ice cream no matter what the outcome.

She is 8, she needs more time, that is fine. Some kids never get past L4 in a long gym career, it is all in the way you sell it. Scores and meets are only a very tiny part of gymnastics. As her mom you have a huge amount of control of how she feels about gym.

 

[cbifoja]

Ballet would help with some of the presentation and dance, but real ballet not some show studio ballet.

This is such an important distinction. So many studios don't teach ballet, they teach the recital dance. You need to find somewhere that she can take a true ballet technique class, not learn to sway on stage carrying a cute umbrella while wearing a duckie costume.

 

[purpleleomom]

Have anyone seen the movie "perfect body"? I asked my HC about when i could let my DD watch it, she never saw it so i let her borrow it, and she said never. what do you all think? as of right now i refuse to let her watch it, but was wondering if later on in life it would be ok.

I definitely wouldn't have her watch it at 7-8. I have an 8 yo and I don't want her getting ideas at this age. I don't even allow us to use "fat" to describe a person in our house. I may sound paranoid, but EDs are no joke. I'm not even sure about later. I guess it depends on how impressionable she is and if you think she might be insecure & get ideas.

 

[Jenny]

Agreed and there are so many better books and films for her.

 

[purpleleomom]

I just want to add to the book comment: those Perfect Balance books by Dominique Moceanu have a character with an ED. It straight up talks about the girl throwing up after eating. Just a heads up to anyone else who might be concerned about such things because the stories seem pretty appropriate otherwise.

 

[gymgymgymnast08]

I just wanted to add that in level 4 I never scored higher than a 29 and in my first year of level 5 I came in dead last at states. But by level 7 I started to be in the middle of the pack and by level 8 and level 9 I was actually the highest scorer on my team most meets. Of course I never went on to win the Olympics but I think I did pretty well especially if you look back to see me doing back-head-springs in level 4 and that one meet where I got a 4 on level 4 bars.

 

[kandkfunk]

I just wanted to add that in level 4 I never scored higher than a 29 and in my first year of level 5 I came in dead last at states. But by level 7 I started to be in the middle of the pack and by level 8 and level 9 I was actually the highest scorer on my team most meets. Of course I never went on to win the Olympics but I think I did pretty well especially if you look back to see me doing back-head-springs in level 4 and that one meet where I got a 4 on level 4 bars.

This sounds a lot like my DD, especially the back head spring. LOL. I wouldn't recommend that technique.

 

[emilykatherine]

Have anyone seen the movie "perfect body"? I asked my HC about when i could let my DD watch it, she never saw it so i let her borrow it, and she said never. what do you all think? as of right now i refuse to let her watch it, but was wondering if later on in life it would be ok.

I've seen it, and I think you should wait until she's older. The movie deals with so pretty big topics that she probably doesn't understand.

 

[gracyomalley]

for many many kids body awareness comes with age, as does the ability to actually follow the coaches corrections. my DD is naturally "tight", but my youngest (9) boy can be all over the place - and this year when his coach didn't care, then was fired, he didn't progress at all until the new coach came - and now he's clearly different WHEN HE CONCENTRATES on his form....

DS the eldest was all over the place at 9 but has fantastic form at 13....makes great corrections and progressing and scoring nicely now.

As to move up or not - well, at 8 they do get bored with the same old stuff - and if the corrections are hard for her to see, it may be that she'll get the pointed toe with ballet and the next level of gym better than just "keep working on it til you get it". DD coach never held girls back who could safely compete the next level once they had scored about 33s....IF the kid wanted to move up and worked hard....especially if they had already repeated and improved with that repeat year. This approach may not work for some gyms - especially if there are tons of other L2s and they really don't need to make gym work for each kid! But of the kids that DD has been with for years now, all have better form than they did at age 8 and DD who moved out of L6 with a 33, just placed 3rd at state L7 - so top compulsories really don't automatically win later!

My caveat is that we did do ballet, and waited for DD to grow some, and she did end up repeating L7, and has always been tight and a hard worker....but there is another girl on her team whose form is not nearly as good but works hard and improves every year - and she competed L7 this year - will repeat, but certainly did fine (top score 35 I think...). They are both 6th grade this year.

If your girl likes gym don't let her quit over L2!!!!!