WAG Running, Gymnastics and more

[Muddlethru]

For a year now, my daughter has been bugging me about training for a long distance run. Luckily, the most marathons have a minimum age of 17 or 18. So, I did not have to come up with reasons or explain to her why she can't run or train for one. She sporadically runs 5k which I hope is not detrimental to her gymnastics training (she's running one this weekend). My daughter is my kid that is always looking for a challenge. When she found out I joined crossfit and found it challenging,she begged me to bring her. So, I brought her last week. While she did very well (the young men in our class indicated they were trying to keep up with her), it tired her arms out to a point where she could not do much at gymnastics practice that afternoon because her arms where collapsing from under her. And she was very sore two days thereafter. (My bad. I did not think the workout would affect her this much. I'm not taking her again. Ok, I deserve a smack on the hand). A year and a half ago, she was 10, her older brother had registered to do a 78 mile bike race, she insisted on doing it. It was my husband's company that was sponsoring the fund raising bike tour which will benefit local charities. So we let her thinking she can quit anytime. The tour is well manned with trucks all over the bike route to pick up troubled bikers and more than adequate rest stops. Everyone also kept an eye on her being the youngest biker. She did not train whatsoever. So, i flollowed her with my car from the middle point ready to take her. Well to our surprise, she finished! On very hilly areas, she was offered rides to the top by the trucks which she refused. She did not want to "cheat". It took her over 6 and a half hours.

She now wants to train for the farthest running distance her age is allowed. In addition, she again wants to do more of the same long distance bike races (75+ miles). She is going to junior high school next school year and wants to join the track team. I am wondering two things (1) are these activities ok to do along with her gymnastics training. She is 11 and a Level 9. Are there activities that coaches recommend she should NOT do? Are there other challenging activities that are complimentary to gymnastics? And (2) do you think this is reflective of her commitment to gymnastics? Her interest in gymnastics does not seem to have changed. She still loves it and it is her primary sport. But on a subconscious level, could she be unsatisfied? Her ears always perks up when she hears of a new activity that challenges an Individual. Might this wide range of interest indicate gymnastics is not a long term possibility?

BTW, she is by far more successful in gymnastics. While she does well and has a respectable showing in the other activities, it is nowhere the results she has gotten thus far in gymnastics.

 

[gymfun]

WOW you have an awesome athlete. If she were my daughter I would let her do and try anything. Obviously she can handle it. The crossfit can only help her gymnastics by building strength. In our house our life does not revolve around gymnastics. My daughter loves gymnastics but is not the best one out there and there are very few who are that good.
Running is a very healthy activity that she can do the rest of her life. Fantastic exercise! I don't want to tell you what to do but IMO I would not limit her to just gymnastics. What if she gets injured?? It would be nice for her to have something else to challenge her
AND I would ask her what SHE wants to do....She certainly can do both running and gymnastics IMO.
From what you have said it sounds like she will succeed in anything she sets her mind to do

 

[GymMom67]

Your daughter sounds a lot like mine. She has asked to do a 5K, but we haven't agreed to it just yet, as she just turned 10 earlier this month. Her PE coach sent a thing home about a kids triathlon. She wanted to do it, but she's really not a great swimmer. She knows enough to be OK in the deep end of the pool, especially because at our pool, they only allow them to jump off the diving board and swim straight to the side and get out, but doesn't really swim across the pool using correct form, which she would need if swimming a long distance. I'll be watching this thread to see if anyone says these activities (especially the running) is detrimental to gymnastics, because I really have no idea.

 

[kecks]

i am not a gym coach, however i coach olympic lifting and track (all disciplines, but mainly the sprinting and hurdling things). i would one of my higher level athletes not let do crossfit or intense endurance stuff of any kind by the side.
one thing is, that she is at a learning age bodywise - the 'golden window of opportunity' to learn movements and create good patterns and also speed closes after hitting puberty! - and this time should be used for stuff that is a) fast and explosive and b) an allaround sport. gymnastics fits this prescription perfectly, cf and endurance stuff does not. do fast stuff as a kid or you will never reach your full speed potential as an adult.
second thing is, she seems pretty talented as a gymnast?! i do not know enough about training of high level wag at this age, but when she is putting in the hours she is putting in i would not do things by the side that could be making the pay offs of her gym training smaller. endurance events that last for hours make you tired (as do the short but intensive cf wods - lactate acid has effects that are not gone the next 48 hours or so, see soreness after cf!) and will affect the next practice in any case. and they also reduce speed and explosive power in any case because you can not be at your best game in speed *and* long distance endurance stuff at the same time. what is more important for gym? i'd say speed/jumping ability.
third thing is, gymnastics is taxing for the joints and passive structures of the body with all the pounding. running and cf add lots of pounding on top of this. this might not cause health problems now or in the near future with her probably feather weight 9 year old body, but a body can only take so much, especially whith pounding. running is also taxing on knees, back, hips... cf is very taxing for achilles stuff and also known to cause immense shoulder problems (combination of kipping pulls ups with overhead work with weight when tired and form gets crappy; never work overhead with weights when tired; weightlifters never ever do this to save their shoulders...).
on the other hand, she's a kid and just 9 years old and seems to crave physical challenges and she is not an olympic athlete at the moment. if she really, really, really wants to do this i as a coach would talk to her and you about the above mentioned consequences performancewise of her choices and let her/you then work out what to do.

one completely wired idea, but perhaps worth a cent: if she loves just being physically and mentally challenged olympic weightlifting might be worth a try if a good club (not so much a cf affiliate) is nearby. gymnasts do usually great in weightlifting, it is extremly challenging and it does make you more explosive *and* strong. needs to see a good coach so. also very good in my opintion and more of the 'endurance challenge' type of sport would be "giroy" - kettlebell competitions, mainly seen in russia. it is strength and speed for time (see youtube for competition vids). looks boring, but some girls just love it.

 

[ivyagogo]

Wow, I can't get my son to do anything at all!

 

[Muddlethru]

i am not a gym coach, however i coach olympic lifting and track (all disciplines, but mainly the sprinting and hurdling things). i would one of my higher level athletes not let do crossfit or intense endurance stuff of any kind by the side.
one thing is, that she is at a learning age bodywise - the 'golden window of opportunity' to learn movements and create good patterns and also speed closes after hitting puberty! - and this time should be used for stuff that is a) fast and explosive and b) an allaround sport. gymnastics fits this prescription perfectly, cf and endurance stuff does not. do fast stuff as a kid or you will never reach your full speed potential as an adult. it.

Very informative post kecks! Thank you very much. The above part of your post is what I appreciate the most. That is great to know. It was great to hear from an Olympic lifting and track coach.


I will not be taking her with me to cf again. In fact, I may not renew my memberships next month. I am in my 50s and cf is pretty taxing on my body. I had left should discomfort when I started cf. Now my right shoulder is bothering also.


Interesting suggestions. Olympic weightlifting and giroy (looked it up- ) may not spark her interest because she likes to move, be in constant motion. But I appreciate your post. Thank you.

 

[Muddlethru]

Wow, I can't get my son to do anything at all!

Ivyagogo, i hear you. we had to force our son to pick a sport otherwise, he's be perfectly happy playing computer games all day.

 

[emorymom]

I would have a talk with her about her priorities.

My daughter only does gym 6-8 hours a week (Y team and she is a slow progressor), dances 5-? hours a week, and does swim team 3-4 times a week. She would never give up gym, but I can see her wanting to do tri's when she quits gym. She does 5Ks but honestly a 5K is no big deal. She will do a 5K, have a meal and go dance for 3 hours (and/or go to a gymnastics meet).

I'll disagree that running with a good stride on a good surface is a big risk -- if she wants to train on a nice rubber track or something, I think that would be fine. Unlike gymnastics or Crossfit, the human body is designed to run at a moderate pace for travel.

I'd say the main problem is that she is risking an injury that would interfere with her gymnastics, versus sitting on the couch. She could turn an ankle, etc.

 

[BlairBob]

If I was her coach, I would give her lots and lots of burpees every time she mentioned this super long distance stuff and crossfit. I might threaten her jokingly with a stick and theraband.

5k's alright, 10k not too often. Probably on a saturday after gym practice.

CF before a gym workout... You would get a cross-armed, non happy gymnastics coach face.

On the other hand, if this is what makes her happy; it is what it is. But she has to mindful that isn't super great for her gymnastics career.

OlympicLifting is awesome and I love it and would recommend it...but bear in mind sometimes cleans will sprain wrists. All in all, it's a good thing and I know of some high level gymnastics programs that are using CF/Weightlifting for their high levels and elites. And squats are good. Btw, not excessive CF but more fine tuned S&C that you would probably also see in collegiate programs.

 

[iwannacoach]

If I was her coach, I would give her lots and lots of burpees every time she mentioned this super long distance stuff and crossfit. I might threaten her jokingly with a stick and theraband.

5k's alright, 10k not too often. Probably on a saturday after gym practice.

CF before a gym workout... You would get a cross-armed, non happy gymnastics coach face.

On the other hand, if this is what makes her happy; it is what it is. But she has to mindful that isn't super great for her gymnastics career.

OlympicLifting is awesome and I love it and would recommend it...but bear in mind sometimes cleans will sprain wrists. All in all, it's a good thing and I know of some high level gymnastics programs that are using CF/Weightlifting for their high levels and elites. And squats are good. Btw, not excessive CF but more fine tuned S&C that you would probably also see in collegiate programs.

I think you've got a pretty good "take" all the way around, but want to add a few small "tweeks" to what you've already said so well........

I could see how "cleans" would sprain a wrist in people with lots of bulk in their arms because of the way their wrists need to bend back when they "rack" the clean on their shoulders. Sure, there's also the accidents caused by carelessly gripping the bar, and losing it during the wrist flip, but generally I had a pretty safe experience as an early teen 'oly' lifter.

I like the idea of crossfit for gymnasts, but only if it's supervised/conducted by a gymnastics coach who focuses the kids on complete range of motion, rather than the abbreviated short cut reps that seem to creep into crossfit workouts...... amateurs I presume, but there seem to be a lot of them.

 

[BlairBob]

The likelihood of a missed clean is just about the only time you can sprain your wrist. They don't tend to happen all that often (once in a blue moon) but I'm sure as a gymnastics coach you would be irked if your gymnast sprained their wrist working on something other than gymnastics. I love the benefits that OlympicLifting can give to gymnasts.

Generally a sprained clean occurs when you bang your elbows on you knees and this torques your wrists. Instant sprained wrist. I've known plenty of lifters who have done as well as my self. Snatches can be a bit hard if someone were to have weak elbows or elbows with lots of hyperextension.

I would not want to answer to an AD or parent about how a gymnast got hurt doing Snatches or Cleans or Jerks.

A lot of CrossFit coaches happen to be ex gymnasts or sometimes even gymnastics coaches ( a lot of the staff at CrossFitmarin, Dusty Hyland who works with Jeff Tucker of CrossFitGymnastics doing a lot of their seminars besides Sean Lind. Nadia Shatila and Gillian Mounsey, both ex national level gymnasts, Danny Schmeiding out of CFPetaluma, Aushion Cushman in SD ). My friend at OrovilleGymnastics I think also has CF and WL at their gym complex and their athletes sometimes participate.

Personally, I would let my gymnasts do squats and High Pulls and presses and jerks in regards to the Olympic Lifts. Unfortunately, these wouldn't be as fun as getting to do actual Snatches, Cleans and Jerks.

I would not allow for any of the 10% slop that CF allows ( quoting the founder, Greg Glassman that 90% excellent form was acceptable to allow some slop that allows for higher intensity ).

Yes, there are a lot of amateur coaches in CrossFit. They get certified on a weekend. The worst WAG/MAG competitive coaches have boatloads more experience coaching athletes than a lot of CF coaches. Of course, their S&C programming might be horrible but still. Again, buyer beware.

Unfortunately as gymnastics coaches we can't really bar a parent and gymnast from doing a lot of activities. I guess we could not allow them into practice and some of the popular gyms could just say NO but I don't think most of us could.

Last year, when I was going to one affilate (mainly so I could lift and in trade I would provide OlympicLifting and Gymnastics help) they offered a camp for high school athletes. I was thinking about addressing it to our owner and some of our high school girls, but only if I were to be there as well. And honestly at the end of the day it would not have been doable. I'd have to be there and put my butt on the line besides having the athletes and their parents buy in besides our head coaches. They were happy enough doing lots of poor air squats, jumping lunges, and BW back extensions, etc for their L10 so oh bloody well.
I decided after that to just focus on my compulsory group and not stress about it. The L10 were not my athletes so...

 

[iwannacoach]

They were happy enough doing lots of poor air squats, jumping lunges, and BW back extensions, etc for their L10 so oh bloody well.

I decided after that to just focus on my compulsory group and not stress about it. The L10 were not my athletes so...

You sound like a thorough bred race horse stompin' an snortin' in the starting gate. Believe me, I know the feeling.

 

[BlairBob]

I'm opinionated because I've done my reading and research. I've read the Russian and Bulgurian papers on proper S &C programming for elite athletes (Verkhovshansky, Mel Siff, besides a lot of the papers on OlympicLifting). Besides, most of the useful American stuff out there (which my Ukranian Olympian friend joked at has been said and done by the Russians 30 years ago for the most part). I will also say that pretty much the only interesting sports science being done today is actually in America, a lot of by Bill Sands within the gymnastics community.

If you have gymnasts with poor hip function who are yet working on skills such as double backs with a small population of them who have to sit out because of lower back and knee and hip pain...so you're telling me doing air squats and jumping lunges and rocking candlestick squats (on a single leg) prepares them at all for dealing with the forces of double backs on a young adult body (14-17)?

Please don't waste my time by doing jazzercise when my reputation is on the line. As I was primarily the compulsory coach helping out with the optionals (and possibly being groomed to take over optionals one day so I was told), fight the battles you can win as a coach and try not (haha) to stress about things you cannot affect.

 

[DisMom]

My gymnast runs as well (I'm a marathoner and triathlete, so she sees what I do). She just turned 10 and is a L7, but she's been doing 5ks since age 6 or 7. Before she started gymnastics. She also plays on a competitive travel soccer team. Some kids are just natural athletes and can handle a lot. But, speaking as a marathoner...those age limits are there for a reason. Younger kids should absolutely not do long distances. 10k max at this age. Biking and swimming are different as they are non-impact. If you have a kid who always wants to go and move...get her into swimming. Start with lessons for form. You'll be hard pressed to find any fitness professional or coach who is opposed to swimming. Best thing for a body, bar none.