Coaches Standing Tucks - eagle position for the set

[twisting007bigflip]

I saw this on youtube and was wondering if someone could elaborate on this technique a little. This video is long, but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41-XOwsHpZk

How many of you teach it like this? Why do you teach it like this?

If you don't teach it like this, why?

There's a debate going on in our gym right now regarding this "eagle position" and I'm just looking for some more information.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I like it as a standing back tuck -- as long as the gymnast thinks of this as a completely separate and unrelated skill from a backhandspring-back tuck.

Which they should anyway.

 

[MissBear]

Yes, I agree with GT. I also saw that the same technique was discussed in the BHS video. When I teach a BHS I'm thinking about the real goal of RO BHS. If the gymnast has no experience at beginning in an upright, falling back dish (hollow) position into the BHS how will they go from the RO? It's the same when I'm first teaching the back tuck. Now once they come to standing skills for beam, I don't mind if the chest starts lowering - but I wouldn't actively teach it.
However, I was wondering if it would help a gymnast having trouble with height on the tuck (for beam), but I don't have a suitable gymnast to test that with.

 

[Valentin]

Hi

I am not convinced by any means that this technique provides any benefit. Actually i have to say i think it serves as a disadvantage when considering it for a back tuck. I find the rationalization quite wrong in the video. Why?
1- He compared the snatch lift, and deadlift to 'eagle position', when in reality its NOTHING even close. Why do weightlifters keep their backs straight and squat instead of doing it with straight leg, to initiate the movement? Well for 1 the objective is to move Accelerate the external load through the use of the legs, and not to raise his or her CoM. first mistake.
2- I did not see one! back tuck that actually showed a vertical set. using the 'position'. Instead what i saw was people who could not jump, whip over back tucks. He is very correct in his description of what needs to happen in a back tuck. ' Open hips, extended knees, ankles, shoulders' on take-off etc... however not one person actual jumped. Instead because they torso was moving backward so fast knee and hip extension was achieved wayyy after the shoulders where behind the feet. So... this means rotation but lack of lift.
3- Consider the people with the most impressive standing backs..
EXamples
YouTube - Standing double backflip - Charlie Tomayo
YouTube - Joe Eigo Backflip - Joe Eigo
There are like 100s more. You will never!!! see then doing 'eagle' position.. why?? because the name of the game is to accelerate vertically. ANy motion that or body alignment that deviates from as close to vertical is waste of energy trying to bring it back in line and individually accelerate upward.
Consider this.. You have a spring standing upright you squash it down and release it goes straight up...max height.
Not do the same thing but bend the spring forward a bit .. release... what happens..... It goes up but it mainly flips. This is basically what happens with this eagle thing.

Now yes it would be possible to do a decent standing back using the eagle position simply because its NOT that hard to do a back tuck for anyone who can actually jump, and has the ability to explosively jump vertically. You can use just about any technique and make a back flip. However that is not the point. The point is..was this the most efficient technique? Answer is clearly no.

We can also get into how he is wrong by saying that this methods helps by allowing the hamstring and gluts and lower back before the quads and calfs take over.. he is very wrong. Because one need only consider the function of these muscles and their antagonistic agonist actions, to see that actually this deters from their use.
He also uses shawn johns as an example. However i don't see a her setting, actually she for the full you need more rotation then height because you need to borrow or transfer (more correctly stated) rotation to twisting. Hence it make sense..sacrifice height for flip and twist.

So in short, i would never teach a gymnast this technique for a back tuck. BHS it is totally fine and more likely actually more beneficial. Hence why we see it alllll the time on beam,

 

[Deleted member D3987]

great post valentin! i am on my knees bowing to you. you captured the technical deficiency perfectly with the spring analogy.