WAG Targeting elite only "After level 10" - thoughts?

[Sasha]

First, this is not about my DD - not looking for an elite career (though there was a glimmer of that path at one time, but have moved on...) Anyway...

A gym dad I met recently was talking about his daughter. She is on track to be a 11 year old L7 next spring. She is a pretty high scorer at their gym, has placed well in compulsories, but their gym does not have elite athletes. They do have L10s.

This dad was saying his daughter "might want to go elite someday", and that the coaches told him something akin to..."After Susie competes L10, if she wants to go elite, we will find a way to get her the training, whether it is here or elsewhere." The dad talked as if this was a fairly realistic possibility.

So assuming "Susie" rocks it in L7, 8, and 9, and moves up one level per year, she is on track to be a 14 year old 1st year L10. Even if Susie also rocks her first year of L10, is it realistic she could still have an elite career without ever doing all those 'elite' things all these Tops/Hopes/invite camp/top gym athletes have been doing since they were 8-10?

It seemed unrealistic to me short of her being an absolute 1 in a million standout talent, but of course I would never say that. But I can ask on CB.

So I'm truly curious - are there elites that come from a simple JO L10 path that just blossom in the mid-teens and they can end up with an elite career? Or are those days long past?

 

[skschlag]

We had one at our gym. She did the levels, didn't do TOPS or HOPES, or any of that. Became level 10, (and while I am not sure of all the steps involved, I am sure there was something in here that allowed her to get there...meets, etc), ended up on the women's national team. She even competed internationally once. I believe she was a Jr in High school when she made the national team for the first time.

I am not sure it is the typical way, it is possible.

She did the elite thing for 2 1/2 years, and then had a very successful college career.

 

[QueenBee]

I've seen a couple gymnasts get to junior elite on that type of Level 10 path, but not make the national team. It is still an incredible accomplishment, of course. But it does seem like most gymnasts who are going to reach those high levels are breaking away from the pack around 10-12 years old...not so many after that age.

I haven't seen the jump to senior elite. That jump seems much larger than the junior elite jump (from Level 10).

 

[Jenny]

It is more possible if they are training with a mind for FIG . The skills , requirements, deductions and equipment settings are different. At 14 I would think it almost impossible to adjust to FIG unless you have been mindful of it all along. Eg if they are training using FIG bar and vault settings now and working towards FIG type routines on floor and beam.

You mention an 'elite career' , well anyone can go to qualifiers and would probably consider themselves training elite even if they don't qualify. Most who qualify end up at camps of some sort as hopes/ juniors. It is only really as seniors that not all end up at camps. And of those even fewer are ever named to the national team and compete for USA. So anyone can dip a toe in the water and consider it an elite career but very few make it to the team and really have a 'career'

 

[calli]

Jazmyn Foberg and Riley McCusker both took similar paths to what the OP is asking. Both went through level 10 before testing Junior elite at 14 years old. I think Riley had some early experience with TOPS or developmental camp at some point , but I don't think she was consistently in camps and would definitely more be considered a gymnast who went all the way through the levels and then made the switch.

 

[gymgal]

I believe Ashton Locklear went this route, but she was a specialist

 

[Sasha]

It is more possible if they are training with a mind for FIG . The skills , requirements, deductions and equipment settings are different. At 14 I would think it almost impossible to adjust to FIG unless you have been mindful of it all along. Eg if they are training using FIG bar and vault settings now and working towards FIG type routines on floor and beam.

This is an interesting point I had not thought of, thank you. The bars setting is closer in FIG - that makes sense as a difficult switch. What, specifically, would be special about floor and beam routines that one would want to be taking into consideration in advance of the L10 season (if aiming for elite post L10)? Higher difficulty, I assume, but is there some kind of different construction or elements that one might not have been training toward in L10? If too complicated to fully explain, perhaps an example? Just curious.

You mention an 'elite career' , well anyone can go to qualifiers and would probably consider themselves training elite even if they don't qualify. Most who qualify end up at camps of some sort as hopes/ juniors. It is only really as seniors that not all end up at camps. And of those even fewer are ever named to the national team and compete for USA. So anyone can dip a toe in the water and consider it an elite career but very few make it to the team and really have a 'career'

Yeah, I don't even know what I mean by an 'elite career' - I guess I just mean pass the qualifiers and be in the same "pool"? as elites who have come up through the Tops/Camps/big elite gym systems, and then be equally eligible/have a shot at anything beyond that. It sounds like there are a couple examples of young women mentioned above who may have taken more of a "JO first" path and are still up near the top of the pool... Related question - if an athlete passes the elite qualifier, will she be invited to elite/elite-only competitions? I know very little about elite competitions other than when 1-2 athletes are selected for some specific international comp (like when Ragan Smith went to American Cup). Are there elite competitions where any athlete (who passed the qualifiers) can sign up and compete? Or do they have to be nominated/assigned/earned? Maybe that will help me understand what 'elite career' could mean.

Thanks again for the info share!

 

[thefellowsmom]

I will just say that my dd has changed her bar settings twice in the last year and will move down to fig after this season and it hasn't been more than a couple week adjustment each time. She isn't worried about it too much, but she is still fairly small so I am sure that makes it easier. Switching to a small bar set as an older larger gymnast I am sure will be more difficult. My dd is just mad she has to start adjusting her feet out of the way of the low bar. She has had the luxury of full length giants up until now.

Usag has a couple good pages on the way elite competitions break down.

But basically there are compulsory qualifiers and optional qualifiers throughout the winter and spring and these are much like regular meets like you know them. Anyone can sign up and attempt to qualify.

For compulsory each level (hopes 10-11, hopes 12-13, junior, senior) has a qualifying score they must reach. Once they do that they do not have to do any more compulsory meets that season.

For optionals, the gymnast is looking to reach the score that will qualify them to classics. They can compete in as many optional qualifying meets as they want. Once they get the qualifying score (also different for each level) then they can go to classics where they attempt to get the qualifying score for championships.

So really when you think about it, other than adding the compulsory bit in, not so different than a JO season. You go to invitationals to try to qualify to state and at state try to qualify on.

International assignments where you represent as part of the USA team are only available by invite to kids on the national team. You will sometimes see kids named to the team right before or after one of these competitions. For example Sunisa Lee was added to the team right before Gimnix so she could compete with the team, but now I don't see her on the Jeslo team so she didn't get that assignment. Not sure how long getting named to the national team lasts, possibly just from competition to competition?

But, this year there were gyms with their elite kids and individuals at Gymnix and other world cup events and even some meet in France. These are generally kids not yet beholden to the national team camp situation. These kids can compete wherever they want at these events all over the world but can't be assigned to the US team at one of these competitions unless they were invited into the national team camp system and make the team or placed high enough at Championships to be automatically placed on the team (I think top 5).

I'm sure it is way more complicated and I missed tons but I think this is the basic gist of it.

 

[tomtnt]

with regards to your question about elite meets, aside from the international assignments, the girls can also compete at the US Classic (previously called the Covergirl Classic) and then qualify to the P&G Championship which is the national championship meet for junior and senior elites...

This is an interesting point I had not thought of, thank you. The bars setting is closer in FIG - that makes sense as a difficult switch. What, specifically, would be special about floor and beam routines that one would want to be taking into consideration in advance of the L10 season (if aiming for elite post L10)? Higher difficulty, I assume, but is there some kind of different construction or elements that one might not have been training toward in L10? If too complicated to fully explain, perhaps an example? Just curious.



Yeah, I don't even know what I mean by an 'elite career' - I guess I just mean pass the qualifiers and be in the same "pool"? as elites who have come up through the Tops/Camps/big elite gym systems, and then be equally eligible/have a shot at anything beyond that. It sounds like there are a couple examples of young women mentioned above who may have taken more of a "JO first" path and are still up near the top of the pool... Related question - if an athlete passes the elite qualifier, will she be invited to elite/elite-only competitions? I know very little about elite competitions other than when 1-2 athletes are selected for some specific international comp (like when Ragan Smith went to American Cup). Are there elite competitions where any athlete (who passed the qualifiers) can sign up and compete? Or do they have to be nominated/assigned/earned? Maybe that will help me understand what 'elite career' could mean.

Thanks again for the info share!

 

[txgymfan]

There are also some "open" sessions at large invitational meets that include upper level 10s and elites.

 

[2gymmies]

Generally speaking, I've heard that older Level 10s who test the waters in elite have trouble with the compulsory score and the Fig bar and vault setting as previously mentioned. Straight body casts and front giants on FIG setting with legs together are pretty tough for bigger girls that haven't been doing it since they were 10.

 

[gymmom41]

On a similar note... what happens to girls who are training to qualify for elite but then can never quite make the switch? So maybe they are JO Level9/10 and only 14 years old? Do they just keep competing Level 10 until college?

 

[thefellowsmom]

So is 125 vault setting low for most older girls? Sorry. Mine is still pretty small and was moved up to 125 with the last gym move.

 

[2gymmies]

So is 125 vault setting low for most older girls? Sorry. Mine is still pretty small and was moved up to 125 with the last gym move.

We have quite a few level 10s on 130 because it gets harder for the taller girls to turn their round off over and get into the table enough to do yurchenko full and beyond. Our gym doesn't train any flipping vaults below 125 so I don't have any experience less than that and moving up to FIG. I think most college girls compete 130 or higher.

 

[thefellowsmom]

Ahh! Thank you!

 

[Aussie_coach]

Elite is not something you walk into at 14.

To create a successful elite gymnast you need to prepare with that goal in mind from the day they walk in the door.

 

[OzZee]

Why does the US not compete on FIG settings?

 

[flipster]

Ashton was lvl 10 by age 11, did 5 years of lvl 10 before turning Elite as a specialist. Have there been other Elite specialists with 1 or 2 events to compete?

 

[flippingtogether]

It is more possible if they are training with a mind for FIG . The skills , requirements, deductions and equipment settings are different. At 14 I would think it almost impossible to adjust to FIG unless you have been mindful of it all along. Eg if they are training using FIG bar and vault settings now and working towards FIG type routines on floor and beam.

You mention an 'elite career' , well anyone can go to qualifiers and would probably consider themselves training elite even if they don't qualify. Most who qualify end up at camps of some sort as hopes/ juniors. It is only really as seniors that not all end up at camps. And of those even fewer are ever named to the national team and compete for USA. So anyone can dip a toe in the water and consider it an elite career but very few make it to the team and really have a 'career'

This is really interesting to think about.
So what typically happens to youngish seniors who are elites before they head to college?
There are 2 in particular who are huge talents that got injured before the Olympics so that never dream happened for them - Norah Flatley and Bailie Key (I know there are others similar as well!).
Both of these ladies are planning to compete in college/committed to schools - what are their path options between now and then?

And, I honestly don't even know who is on the US National team right now ... the team roster page of the website hasn't been updated since June of last year. (I guess the org has been busy handling other affairs)
https://usagym.org/pages/athletes/womenList.html?prog=w

 

[Really]

Elite is not something you walk into at 14.

To create a successful elite gymnast you need to prepare with that goal in mind from the day they walk in the door.

Can you elaborate? First, how would a gym identify someone with elite potention "from the day they walk in the door?" And what would a gym be doing differently for someone who met that criteria?