Coaches Teaching uncommon skills.

[Aero]

So I received the code of points for Xcel about two weeks ago and I've been looking it over and studying it. There are A LOT of awesome skills within the categories and I would love to teach them. However, my main question is whether it's worth it to teach these skills or not. I would love to teach some of these skills, such as a full twisting jump to kip on low bar (Group 1, Mounts, 1.203), or even a Yama****a on vault (Group 1, 1.103), but I never see them performed. If any of you experienced coaches out there could tell me some advantages and disadvantages of teaching these skills I'd be very grateful.

 

[raenndrops]

So I received the code of points for Xcel about two weeks ago and I've been looking it over and studying it. There are A LOT of awesome skills within the categories and I would love to teach them. However, my main question is whether it's worth it to teach these skills or not. I would love to teach some of these skills, such as a full twisting jump to kip on low bar (Group 1, Mounts, 1.203), or even a Yama****a on vault (Group 1, 1.103), but I never see them performed. If any of you experienced coaches out there could tell me some advantages and disadvantages of teaching these skills I'd be very grateful.

We have 2 girls that do the full twisting jump to kip on LB. Of course, they are trying to add B skills into Bars for High School Gymnastics and are actually only Xcel Gold and Platinum outside of the HS program.
The disadvantage is that the turn has to be perfectly timed and you have to make sure they don't tap going into the kip.
As for teaching the Yami, you should watch this video... This guy likes the vault

 

[Aero]

I actually watched that whole video last week. What a coincidence! It's great, especially the points he brings up about how useful it is in higher difficulty vaults. But yeah, I totally intend on teaching the Yama****a. I've always had a liking for unique and uncommon or rare skills, and a lot of them are quite flashy. Do you think you could post a video of one of your girls doing the full twist to kip? I'd love to see that!

 

[raenndrops]

I actually watched that whole video last week. What a coincidence! It's great, especially the points he brings up about how useful it is in higher difficulty vaults. But yeah, I totally intend on teaching the Yama****a. I've always had a liking for unique and uncommon or rare skills, and a lot of them are quite flashy. Do you think you could post a video of one of your girls doing the full twist to kip? I'd love to see that!

I will have to see if they will let me. I know the one is JUST starting to work on it (really Xcel Gold) and the other one only makes it 4/10 times... but taps every time . There is a high school meet tomorrow. I will take my camera and, if I get permission, I will post for you!

 

[jpow]

I've taught the full twist into kip before. We just spend a lot of time working quarter jump into kip, half jump into kip, and three quarter jump into kip before they start trying it. I also teach it on a smaller bar than they compete on so they get more used to getting their legs up.

 

[fuzi]

I've taught the full twist into kip before. We just spend a lot of time working quarter jump into kip, half jump into kip, and three quarter jump into kip before they start trying it. I also teach it on a smaller bar than they compete on so they get more used to getting their legs up.

I used to do the full twisting kip in college club. I taught myself with the exact progression you described, but first doing the 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, or 1/1 twist to a hollow "block" off the bar, then adding a glide, and then the kip. You still want to grasp the bar in the tight hollow position you would for a glide Kip.

As for the yama****a vault, if you have a boys team at your gym, ask the male coach for help. It's a common (I think required) vault in the boys developmental program. One of our Xcel platinum girls has been competing the yama****a this season and while I personally think it's an ugly vault, she's scoring well and winning vault at most meets.

 

[raenndrops]

I actually watched that whole video last week. What a coincidence! It's great, especially the points he brings up about how useful it is in higher difficulty vaults. But yeah, I totally intend on teaching the Yama****a. I've always had a liking for unique and uncommon or rare skills, and a lot of them are quite flashy. Do you think you could post a video of one of your girls doing the full twist to kip? I'd love to see that!

The meet was cancelled!!! No judges were available
so I was unable to get video, but i see that other people have posted progressions for how to teach it... that is what our girls went through.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I used to do the full twisting kip in college club. I taught myself with the exact progression you described, but first doing the 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, or 1/1 twist to a hollow "block" off the bar, then adding a glide, and then the kip. You still want to grasp the bar in the tight hollow position you would for a glide Kip.

As for the yama****a vault, if you have a boys team at your gym, ask the male coach for help. It's a common (I think required) vault in the boys developmental program. One of our Xcel platinum girls has been competing the yama****a this season and while I personally think it's an ugly vault, she's scoring well and winning vault at most meets.

or you could also ask a coach from the old days. he or she will have gray or colored hair...

 

[BlairBob]

Meh, yami.

Otoh for a wag xcel gymnast, it's Sokay.

 

[wgagym]

Those skills are fun, but I would think about adding them if you have a gymnast that has perfected her current routine and now she needs a bit more to spice it up. A lot of these skills I would not take time to teach to the whole group. I think these fun specialty skills are perfect for specific kids as they are ready for more of a challenge but not ready for a level switch.

 

[Aero]

Does anyone have any drills for butterflies or Tong Feis (butterfly twists)? I would love to teach these to my gymnasts in the future and if anyone could provide some nice drills for these, I'd be very grateful. I know these are rather uncommon skills. Also, what happens when you add in a skill into a routine that's a flip or salto, but not in the code of points? Is it scored or count towards anything? Coming from a parkour/tricking background, I've always wanted to see a slant gainer in a routine (see video below), as I think it is a beautiful skill when executed properly and with good form.

 

[BlairBob]

Aero, any breakdancing kind of skills pretty much can get an A-value. B-twists and Tong Fei are in the code though. Some guys are now doing airflares on floor since Morgan Hamm started doing them a few years back.

One of the drills we did for Butterflies was to do to start them off with the hands being placed on a panel mat stack or mushroom. You can practice the B-twists into pit or onto a porta pit or stack of 8"-ers.

One of the things I would watch for when teaching butterflies or b-twists to gymnasts is the odd one leg landing. It's easy to tweak a hip or knee with that one leg landing.

 

[Aero]

Aero, any breakdancing kind of skills pretty much can get an A-value. B-twists and Tong Fei are in the code though. Some guys are now doing airflares on floor since Morgan Hamm started doing them a few years back.

One of the drills we did for Butterflies was to do to start them off with the hands being placed on a panel mat stack or mushroom. You can practice the B-twists into pit or onto a porta pit or stack of 8"-ers.

One of the things I would watch for when teaching butterflies or b-twists to gymnasts is the odd one leg landing. It's easy to tweak a hip or knee with that one leg landing.

So an air flare only counts as an A?! It's so much harder than that! Normal flares take months to learn let alone air flares! As for b-twists/Tong Feis, they are one of my favorite skills and I love doing them. I've never hurt myself on one though, but yes, ACL injuries and other such torque injuries are always present in those kind of skills I suppose.

 

[BlairBob]

Yeah, I never tore anything but at times I would strain a hip or knee from a wonky landing.

Airflare may actually be in the code now since Hamm did them. You'd need to check the FIG rating on them because I don't think they are an A.



Google search says that flair to airflare to flair is a D. Another russian dude did them and it's becoming popular because it looks awesome.

 

[Aero]

That video is... amazing. Wow.

 

[Short Balding Guy]

Those skills are fun, but I would think about adding them if you have a gymnast that has perfected her current routine and now she needs a bit more to spice it up. A lot of these skills I would not take time to teach to the whole group. I think these fun specialty skills are perfect for specific kids as they are ready for more of a challenge but not ready for a level switch.

+1!

Having a WOW flavor to a skill or a different skills an excellent goal, but KNOCK out the S.R.'s and meet the code in regards to execution. Your athletes will be better off with a coach that has them nailing the basics and execution.

Ah but a WOW does not have to be as difficult as a 1/1 BHS on BB . Rather what about a unique leg position/arm position in their 1/1 turn on BB? Something so the athlete feels special and attracts the judge'e eye. The judges see as many as 160 1/1 turns in a day at an optional meet. Something to stand out from the crowd and provide a bit of entertainment.

If you wish to teach the unique skills, check with a coach at your gym. The build ups take time and they would be in a better place to advise. I know that I have been working on the buildups/drills to a standing arabian on BB for over a year with 2 athletes. If it was easy squirrels would do it! It is not easy! They are not squirrels!

The risk of using a unique element is that you do not get value awarded (either by judge not recognizing it or execution) and collect execution errors. I print out event planners identifying each athletes routines (on all events) with a list of all skills/USAG code number and value. I even have pre-written Inquiry Form (https://usagym.org/docs/Forms/Women/inquiry.pdf) with the same on it. I do this as with more unique skills / higher levels the judges may not see the skill or identify it in the moment. Continuing with using BB as an example, Ballenese, cabriolet, Ballate's and are examples of dance that I have used in our past years routines (L7-9). They are coded and I am prepared to assist the judges in recognizing the elements. Lots and lots of elements in Code of Points.

Love to read the passion you are bringing to your group. I am stealing some of your energy and passion for my aching shoulders this morning.
Best, Eric -