Using grips before kip of after?

[lilgymnast7]

Hi all! This question has been in my mind for quite some time. Do you prefer using grips while first learning your kip, or after you make your kip and just adjust to using them? I am clueless on what to do. I spoke with several coaches asking them their opinions, but they all either have different views, or they say whatever works for you. I am learning my kip, (well I had it, but I took a lot of time off so I lost it) and I want to know if I should be using grips while doing so. I have the 10.0 grips with velcro and I wear wrist bands under them. I haven't used them in quite some time though. I rip EXTREMELY easy! Almost every week I get a new rip because my hands are just not meant for the motion used on the bar. Would you recommend I should just use the grips now? In the long run I will probably have to use them anyway, but my coaches are really not helping me with this decision. Thank you all so much for all of your help, I would die without this site!!

 

[Sunobo]

My dd is L5 and balked at using grips at first. They felt odd and she had to adjust to them but now she loves them. She's says the bars hurt more without them and she thinks the grips make the kip easier.

 

[iFlip]

If I were you, I would start using grips now. I already had grips when I was learning my kip, and let me tell you, I can barely do a kip without grips on! It hurts so much.
Another reason why you should start using grips right now is that you wont have to re-learn anything with grips on. It would be hard because grips are so much different than your palms!
And the plus about wearing grips:You wont get rips as much!
Hope this helped with your decision making

 

[gymdog]

I had both kips (low bar and long hang) before I got grips. I wouldn't put a kid in grips right when they were close to getting their kip or had just gotten it, so as not to derail the process, and I generally prefer them not to have them in L4 for various reasons. But by the time competing L5 rolls around, most of them have dowel grips. I hate the palm guards more than anything.

Personally I don't feel it hurts more or less. If I did a kip with or without my grips, it would feel the exact same to me (in terms of friction, I have been using grips for like 10 years so it would feel different in other ways).

 

[cher062]

I think it would be easier to start with the grips then have to learn it without the grips then re-learn and adjust to the grips. I would start with them. It may be a little slower at first but in the end it will be easier.

 

[lilgymnast7]

Thank you all so much! I have the palm grips not the dowel grips, is that fine? As of now I am only basically working on the elements in the level 5 bar routine (not competing it though) plus possibly flyaways and free hips. Would the palm grips be fine, or will it be harder without using the dowel grips. Considering the skills I am working on, I would assume that the palm would be fine for now, but I am not quite sure. Thanks again.

 

[gymnut1]

The palm guards are fine as they will stop you ripping which is a problem for you. Why rip if you don't have to. If you learn your kip with grips you won't have to relearn and it will be easier to go to dowels too. As your coaches don't mind I should keep going with them. And good luck with that KIP.

 

[gymcoach34]

NO grips for learning the kip-esp. for small kids. The gymnast must learn to shift the hand/wrist over the bar without grips at 1st- to get the feel of the skill & the bar. I introduce grips at L6. However, if you are older, and relearning your kip, and are used to grips, I would stick w relearning the kip w/ your grips.

 

[Mack_the_Ripper]

I learned my kip with no grips and then got palm guard grips for the same reason you did - ripping. I had no trouble adjusting. I had the most trouble learning how to jump to the high bar and make sure my hands grabbed the bar correctly with grips on, so it messed up my long hang kip a little bit but not significantly. I figure if you're ripping a lot then that'll just slow you down more over the long run than getting grips - if you have to skip bars or go easy on your hands, that's not a long-term solution. Getting grips is.

P.S. If you think one rip a week is "ripping a lot", you shoulda seen me when I joined this forum! My username is "Ripper." I was lucky if I could get through 30 minutes on bars without at least one rip! (this was in level 4 and 5)

 

[Blackie6]

My DD learned her kip before getting grips. She had no problems adjusting to the grips and never lost her kips. She's on new pair now and I thought she would have problems while breaking in new pair but she claims nothing has changed, if anything, skills ahve gotten better becasue other pair was so small and slippery. She didn't really get to chose grips before or after, coach told them when they needed the grips and most had their kips already. Good Luck!

 

[mariposa]

My daughter had her kip since last year. She injured her wrist and was off bars for 5 weeks. When she got to training, she no longer had her kip. She got it back and then was put into grips (all the girls on her level 5 team were, many without kips) and now she is trying to get used to grips (she hates them) and get her kip with them. I think it would have been easier if she already had her kip, but who knows. For now, she is trying really hard to like her grips and even trying a different brand to see if that helps.

Good luck getting your kip and getting used to your grips! My DD could use some fairies this way, too.

 

[gymnut1]

NO grips for learning the kip-esp. for small kids. The gymnast must learn to shift the hand/wrist over the bar without grips at 1st-

ooh not meaning to nitpick her gymcoach34 but that is a bit of a statement. MUST learn to shift with out grips. That statement is quite patently rot (lol) as thousands of girls learn their kips using grips.

I can see why you might 'recommend' it or 'suggest' it but MUST is far too strong a word. Shifting with dowels on can be more difficult to learn, true but not impossible. And palm guards shouldn't be much different than bare hands if fitted and worn correctly. This gymnast isn't a tiny and she has a problem with rips. She already has the grips and is allowed to use them.

I have know kids take months to relearn a kip when they finally get grips, others never lose them. It really is so individual there isn't a hard and fast rule.

 

[gymdog]

Well, she did say for small kids. I agree the grips, and the palm guards, are an impediment to moving the hands around the bar for small hands. I have told kids to take them off before. It can also be dangerous if they can't hold in the mill circle, they are going to fall back and forward a lot, I have seen kids fall off on their back. These falls are dangerous to the head/neck. Even just doing kip if the hand peels off on the upswing (I have seen this too) they can hit their face/chest on the bar.

So I generally don't like it, not just for those reasons, and don't think it offers any real advantage. I do not think they prevent rips either. I have gotten hundreds of rips using grips as my hands adjusted to harder swinging - more than I ever got not using them. To me it is the training time and learning new swinging that causes this. Once I was 14 or 15, I've never had another rip or blister since because I haven't gotten bigger or started different swinging skills. In training level 5 it is not only the kip but also doing the tap swings, which they haven't trained so much before, that is going to lead to rips and hand soreness.

All of my L4s do drop kips with no grips for some time before they ever learn kips. Even if they use the palm guards for their regular training (this was somewhat out of my control with some), they do this portion without grips. This may be a way to compromise for others.

 

[gymnut1]

but she isn't a littly and she isnt doing mill circles. She is asking about kips.

I think it is very individual to the coach and the gym and the gym system. Eg you wont see a mill circle in the UK so peeling off on one isn't an issue.

I had grips but never used them, my dd has never done bars without them. In our club you start artistic you have palm guards straight away. She is lucky she has only had 1 rip in 3 years. Her friend also in grips often suffers them. That is just the way you are made I think. I do think swinging causes more rips than kips.

Most clubs in the uk either use them straight away or never use them. I don't think many go into grips half way through and have to relearn skills. But that seems very common in the USA.

There obviously is no right or wrong way - it is down mostly to club policy or gymnast preference.

 

[gymdog]

There obviously is no right or wrong way - it is down mostly to club policy or gymnast preference.

I am sure people have learned kips using different ways because I have seen this myself, however, I disagree there is no "wrong" way. As with a lot of things in gymnastics, there might be multiple effective ways, and some wrong ways. This is my approach to gymnastics.

I feel in many cases the use of palm guards is ineffective - and can interfere in the process of learning skills. This is something coaches need to be aware of and able to evaluate, or their program will suffer in effectiveness. Mill circle is just an example. If they cannot shift their hands around the bar and become afraid because they cannot hold on, their progress will be derailed.

Personally, given the choice between doing anything with palm guards, and anything with bare hands, I would choose bare hands. Even for me the design of the palm guards would make it very difficult to hold on properly and I am quite experienced relative to a level 5. I have seen many kids improve after I have asked them to take their palm guards off, which they got because it was "cool" or "everyone else got them" or "they will make their hands hurt less." Not only is the technical performance of the skills better with the hands moving more quickly around the bar, but the fear factor also went away for some when they could feel the bar more.

So, maybe they work for some people, but it is clear to me that at least some coaches are allowing them in cases where they are not effective. Dowel grips are also a problem when the fit is not correct and too much of the palm and hand are covered. Again progress is derailed. I have seen and heard of it happening, so clearly everyone is not on the same page regarding appropriate grip use.

 

[cher062]

From a parent perspective I really think to have or not to have grips is a matter of personal preferance. Some coaches say yes some say absolutly not. Over the years of musical coaches I have seen both approaches presented and honestly I haven't seen an advantage to have or not to have them other than the rip factor. I haven't really seen girls get it quicker with out and then having to adjust later as opposed to having them from the start. I personally feel why not just start with the equipment you are going to use instead of learning it then having to adjust. but that's just me.

 

[gymdog]

I wanted to clarify from my last post - I think if a gymnast is older and can evaluate, using dowel grips is fine. I would go ahead and get dowel grips though, if anything. But, if you are really close on your kip, then I would wait until you have it down more solidly to change anything. It's a really fundamental skill, and if you have to make it change, it will probably be easier to get back with grips if you already had them timing down pretty consistently. If you're not very close then I think you could change now and continue to work on it.